François Villon - Épitaphe (Russian translation)

French (Middle French)

Épitaphe

CLXXVIII
 
Ci gît et dort en ce solier, (1)
qu'amour occit de son raillon, (2)
un pauvre petit écolier
qui fut nommé françois villon.
Oncques de terre n'eut sillon.
Il donna tout, chacun le sait :
table, tréteaux, pain, corbillon.
Pour dieu, dites-en ce verset :
 
Verset (ou rondeau)
 
Repos éternel donne à cil,
Sire, et clarté perpétuelle,
Qui vaillant plat ni écuelle
N'eut oncques, n'un brin de persil.
Il fut rés, chef, barbe et sourcils, (3)
Comme un navet qu'on ret (4) ou pèle.
Repos éternel donne à cil.
 
Rigueur le transmit en exil
Et lui frappa au cul la pelle,
Nonobstant qu'il dît : « J'en appelle ! »
Qui n'est pas terme trop subtil.
Repos éternel donne à cil.
 
Submitted by Guernes on Mon, 31/10/2016 - 17:06
Last edited by Guernes on Tue, 01/11/2016 - 19:52
Submitter's comments:

(1) chambre haute
(2) trait
(3) rasé
(4) rase
.
Tout en majuscules : c'est une épitaphe.
Respect du texte = respect aux morts
01.11.2016

Align paragraphs
Russian translation

Эпитафия

CLXXVIII
 
Здесь, в самой скудной из хибар,
Стрелой амура поражен,
Спит бедный, маленький школяр,
Что звался франсуа вийон.
Хоть не был пахарем рожден,
Но – то признает млад и стар –
Стол, короб, хлеб – все роздал он,
А богу стих диктует в дар
 
Bepcet (рондо)
 
Сир, вечный уготовь ему покой,
Пусть свет над ним вовек пребудет ясный,
Он и петрушки не жевал, несчастный,
И даже миски не имел простой.
Безбровый, лысый, с бритой бородой,
Был к репе чищеной лицом причастный, –
Сир, вечный уготовь ему покой.
 
Лопатой наподдав под зад
Худой, его послал в изгнанье рок ужасный.
– я в суд подам!– воскликнул несогласный,
Поднять пытаясь неуместный вой.
Сир, вечный уготовь ему покой.
 
© Christian Guernes
Submitted by Guernes on Tue, 01/11/2016 - 10:49
Author's comments:

Перевод Ю. Кожевникова

See also
Comments
Saluton    Tue, 01/11/2016 - 11:31

а капс выключить не судьба?

sandring    Tue, 01/11/2016 - 20:22

Какой же ты, Soluton, наглый парень, все-таки! Sad smile

Saluton    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 05:17

писать абы как - это неуважение к читателю, я не намерен это терпеть

sandring    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 05:21

А зачем на сленге писать?

Saluton    Tue, 22/11/2016 - 13:46

неуважением отвечать на неуважение - это нормальное поведение

petit élève    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 18:58

Talking about respect, I wonder what you think of using Russian slang to address someone who doesn't even speak the language. Barking contemptuous remarks around is not going to get you anywhere fast, if you ask me.

sandring    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 19:44

That's exactly what I asked Saluton not to do - not to bark around contemptuous remarks as he's in the habit of doing.

Saluton    Tue, 22/11/2016 - 13:46

I won't ask you, don't worry

Aldefina    Tue, 01/11/2016 - 18:10

Don't capitalize the whole text. Please change it or I will be forced to unpublish both the lyrics and "your" translation.

Aldefina    Tue, 01/11/2016 - 18:46

It doesn't matter. Our site rules doesn't allow that, because it makes the text unreadable.

Aldefina    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 14:08

Guernes, I see you have removed your last comment, still let me reply. You wrote: “Quelqu'un pourrait-il m'expliquer de quoi l'on parle ? Merci.”.

You didn’t understand the discussion in Russian, so please let me ask you: Why do you submit translations copied from other sources when you cannot say anything about the quality of these translations, because you don’t speak the given language?

Anyway, are you a member of the Missionary Church of Kopimism?

Guernes    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 18:54

J'ai supprimé mon commentaire - parce que "quelqu'un" m'a répondu... en privé.

Je ne connais ni la langue russe (dont j'aime les sonorités) ni la langue anglaise ; cela ne m'empêche pas de vous répondre.

Il existe en effet des traducteurs en ligne, quand bien même ils seraient de mauvaise qualité, qui permettent - la plupart du temps - de savoir de quoi l'on parle.

Le passage dans la moulinette "Google Traduction" du commentaire de "Saluton" ne m'a fourni qu'un charabia incompréhensible ; je lui ai donc demandé de le reformuler. Il semblerait qu'il s'exprime dans un russe argotique. La suite, vous la connaissez.

Je ne crois pas que les traductions en russe de François Villon par Ю. Кожевникова aient un caractère tendancieux. Mais je peux me tromper, bien entendu. Certains lecteurs ont pu me signaler de telles erreurs sur d'autres traductions proposées (cf. les commentaires de "petit élève" sur la "Ballade de la grosse Margot" traduite en russe.)

Quant à mes options religieuses ou philosophiques, rassurez-vous :
- Je n'appartiens à aucune église.
- Je ne crois en aucun dieu, ni au singulier ni au pluriel.
- Mes philosophes préférés sont Socrate, Spinoza (Deus sive Natura), Nietzsche, Husserl , Merleau-Ponty, Deleuze et Salanskis.

Kopimisme - jamais entendu parler - sans aucun intérêt.

petit élève    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 19:10

Je suppose que le "copiisme" c'est le fait de copier des traductions qu'on a pas fait soi-même. Saint Mark ou Vale font ça tout le temps.
Perso je ne vois pas en quoi ça serait répréhensible, mais bon, j'ai cessé d'être modérateur ici pour ne plus avoir à me taper ce genre de problèmes, donc je ne vais pas me lancer dans un grand débat.

En tous cas j'apprécie de voir des traductions de Villon en russe, aussi discutables qu'elles soient, ne serait-ce que pour faire un peu connaître au monde ce très grand poète.

Guernes    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 19:21

Voilà, c'est ça :
Mettre en face d'un texte original, les différentes traductions qui en ont été faites, dans le plus grand nombre de langues possibles.
Afin que chacun puisse, s'il n'est pas satisfait de la traduction proposée dans sa langue, en s'appuyant sur le texte traduit et l'original, apporter sa propre contribution.
C'est ce que je fais moi-même, avec des auteurs comme Pessoa ou Trakl, que j'apprécie mais dont les traductions en français - pour la plupart - ne me conviennent pas.

Aldefina    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 20:37

The Missionary Church of Kopimism was a joke, even if it really exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_Church_of_Kopimism

I simply don’t understand why you decided to copy and paste on LT everything you can find elsewhere. It’s not forbidden, but this rule was meant as an exception and you turned this exception into a rule. So far you submitted 3764 and I wonder whether you have translated at least one lyrics. I guess not.

Still you’re already on the sixth position in our ranking. Do you believe you deserve it?

You’re not the only one who treats LT this way, yet you’re “the best”. No one has copied as much as you did - not even this user: http://lyricstranslate.com/en/translator/m%E1%BA%ADp-%C3%BA-v%C3%A0-b%C3... who admits in his profile to be a member of the “Missionary Church of Kopimism”.

So let me ask you once again: Why do you do it? What for?

Guernes    Fri, 04/11/2016 - 11:52

Mettre en face d'un texte original, les différentes traductions qui en ont été faites, dans le plus grand nombre de langues possibles.
Afin que chacun puisse, s'il n'est pas satisfait de la traduction proposée dans sa langue, en s'appuyant sur le texte traduit et l'original, apporter sa propre contribution.
C'est ce que je fais moi-même, ICI, avec des auteurs comme Pessoa ou Trakl, que j'apprécie mais dont les traductions en français - pour la plupart - ne me conviennent pas.

Voir aussi mes traductions de Mariza, Carminho, Cristina Branco, Ana Moura, Katia Guerreiro.

petit élève    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 20:50

Why make such a fuss about ranking? Do you really picture someone going through the pains of copying 3000+ lyrics just to see their name appear in an obscure page of an obscure bit of the World Wide Web?

I'd rather have the piles of unreadable junk that clutter LT cleaned up than a witch hunt of people adding literary translations of literary works, really.

Aldefina    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 21:07

Pierre, I thought this site was called LyricsTranslate and not LyricsTranslationsCopyAndPaste.

Aldefina    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 21:16

And let me add: on a Polish site tekstowo.pl you have this user: http://www.tekstowo.pl/profil,avatarm.html
She, quoting your words, “went through the pains of copying almost 14,000 translations” - all stolen (also my translations from LT) just to see her name close to the top of their ranking. What for? Don’t ask me. I don't understand it.

petit élève    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 23:23

Well at least that's the kind of mental disorder not too many people are in a position to express Regular smile

I'm sure we can agree this has nothing to do with the situation here.
A cursory glance at what Guernes published shows it is mostly works of famous poets with carefully chosen translations, not pop songs pilfered at random.

Aldefina    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 20:58

You didn’t answer my question, you just repeated what you wrote earlier. The reason why I asked you was different. I wonder whether you realize that you have lost more than 2 years of your life for the activity that was not only unpaid, but which hasn’t taught you anything, because even few years old children already know how to copy and paste.

Just think that during these two years you could have learned a lot, but you missed that chance. I guess you have so much free time that you don’t know what to do with it and you simply waste it. Well, it’s your choice.

Guernes    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 21:21

Détrompez-vous :
1) La traduction des œuvres de Fernando Pessoa et de celles des fadistes m'a permis d'apprendre le portugais - que je ne connaissais.
2) La recherche des poèmes de Baudelaire et de Rimbaud dans d'autres langues - que je ne connaissais pas ou mal - m'a permis de me familiariser avec celle-ci (et ce fut l'occasion - dans ma langue - de relire ces poèmes avec un regard renouvelé).
3) La diversité des langues et la profusion du sens à travers celles-ci m’intéressent au plus haut point.
Je n'ai pas perdu mon temps.

petit élève    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 21:26
Quote:

I wonder whether you realize that you have lost more than 2 years of your life for the activity that was not only unpaid, but which hasn’t taught you anything, because even few years old children already know how to copy and paste.

Just think that during these two years you could have learned a lot, but you missed that chance. I guess you have so much free time that you don’t know what to do with it and you simply waste it. Well, it’s your choice.

Though the message is apparently not adressed to me, I still feel insulted by its contents.

You're way out of your league, Adelfina, patronizing people around like that. Especially with a moderator status.

Judging what people learned or not, how their time should have been used best and what chances they missed is not only passably disrespectful and a mite condescending, it also does not bode well for your own wisdom.

Either copying existing translations is allowed, or it isn't.
Either the scoring system takes that into account, or it doesn't
Except for that, I assume people are free to invest as much time as they see fit on LT without being likened to 2 year old or being reminded of their uselessness.

I reckon your idea of what a waste of time is might use a bit of adjustment, by the way, but that's not something I'm willing to invest my own precious time discussing with you.

And oh, feel free to ask for my score to be reset and added to yours, as a payment for your precious bit of wisdom, I'm sure that is worth at least 500 translations at the current exchange rate.

Aldefina    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 22:40

I'm sorry, Pierre, if you feel offended. It was not my intention to insult anyone.

I just expressed what I think. But let me add something - my last words:

I personally don’t care about my position in the ranking, I have different goals, but I’m pretty sure that most users wouldn’t accept Guernes’ position in our ranking knowing how he had achieved that. I believe as a moderator I should care about that, don’t you think?

And what he does is his problem. As long as it is not against our site rules I won’t care anymore.

Thank you for the discussion.

petit élève    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 23:08

Allright, it's the intent that counts. No hard feelings.

In my opinion, any kind of personal ranking is just trouble waiting to happen.

If the raking should only take personal translations into account, then the system should be changed.
It would be quite useful to have a couple of mandatory boxes to choose from each time you publish a translation:

- I did this myself, and it's not a GT output, prettified or not
- I did copy this from (url)
- I did this to learn the language and it cannot be considered reliable

That would leave copy missionaries free to storm the castle without bruising anyone's ego, simplify the cleanup of GT/yandex freaks and give casual readers an idea of the quality they can expect.

Aldefina    Wed, 02/11/2016 - 23:40

Personal ranking is okay when it’s fair. At the moment it isn’t anymore. It’s not a secret that we’ve been discussing this problem and I hope the point system will be changed soon. So far the ideas are to remove the copied translations from the users’ profiles and to give them 1 point for every copied translation, the same way as we get for every copied lyrics. That’s logical, but in my opinion it’s still not fair. I think it would be fair to give no points at all.

Just imagine this “avatarm” from tekstowo.pl with 15,000 points here… It would still turn the ranking upside down.

lt    Tue, 22/11/2016 - 12:23

As long as Guernes doesn't violate site rules, let's not judge his approach. However, we agree that copied translation should be treated differently, and we'll implement a few changes for them.