Suggestion

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Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013
Pending moderation

Hello. Here I have a suggestion for bilingual songs. E.g a song marked as spanish but it has some parts in the x language, to make it translatable for everyone, one whose native is the x language, or who can speak it translates them (or the whole song) into english, and their translations (x language part translations) could be showed like idiom matches, but so "x language translation", or when we click on the x language parts we could see their translations or maybe we could have them the way we have transliterations of the songs. Don't whether I am well understood though.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

You are right that bilingual songs should be treated differently.
Previously, it was possible to simply put them into more than one language category, but that lead to technical problems.
Your suggestion would mean categorizing different parts of one lyrics entry as different languages. That would be perfect if it was possible, but sounds like it would take much work to implement such a feature.

whimsical chatterbox
Joined: 14.09.2013

The problem with multiple translators is, the quality is much too variable. Mixing authors could lead to completely incoherent results.

Besides, who would be considered the author of the final translation? How could a given author edit the translation without running the risk of ruining another translator's work?

The whole system has been designed with the song as a base element and a single author per translation. Changing that would require a massive overhaul.
Given the very little amount of multilingual songs, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort.

When I need a bit of song translated, I just ask in the forums. Seems like a simple and efficient solution to me.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

I agree that one translation entry shouldn't have more than one author - but I also didn't understand it as that.
It rather sounds like treating bilingual lyrics entries a bit like they consist of two or more lyrics entries that can be translated separately.

whimsical chatterbox
Joined: 14.09.2013

Yes, but then you could have one bit perfectly translated and the other a mere gibberish.
A translation is more like a global work. Each author has a specific style in the target language. Even a mix of two good translations would sound somewhat disjointed. It's much better when a single person makes the synthesis of various contributions, in my opinion.

And handling multiple versions of each subpart would be rather complicated too.
That would require to display a separate list of versions for each language, and allow the readers to pick their own mix.
Sounds rather impractical to me.

I would rather have improvements allowing translators to better cooperate.
Maybe a way of tagging multilingual song with "secondary languages" so that they appear in the corresponding request lists, while still retaining the current "one language per song" database structure?
That would then basically work like transcription requests, where it's customary to post partial transcriptions as comments until all contributors agree the final version is good enough to get published.
On the other hand, reaching a consensus on a translation is more difficult than on a mere transcription. That could lead to all kind of squabbles.

Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013

Nope not different authors, if these songs already english translations, just we could add it the way we have transliterations, if we don't have an english translation of x language part, someone who knows the language could translate them and we would be able to see them clicking on the x language parts or something like that. Furthmore, to make it easy, it would be good to have song categories such as bilingual and monolingual.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

With multilingual transcription requests it currently also doesn't work exactly perfect.

Also, while I agree that multiple authors on one translation entry is a no-go, I'd consider it a good idea to allow translations of only those parts of a text that are in a specific language. Most people know not many languages, so it's very likely that they don't know all languages a song contains.
Currently I'm not sure how exactly such cases are treated, but I have seen translations were only one of the languages in a bilingual song was translated, which is bothersome since it means one can't even add a request for those missing parts.

Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013

Excatly, and this situation is very difficult, we don't know what to do. And something else, there was a bulgarian song it contained romanian and turkish parts, I posted english translation of turkish parts as a comment. But it is a fact that, nobody had a look at my comment.

Moderator of the Balkans :)
Joined: 07.12.2012

I support the idea of having more than one language in a song (even if it means the author of the song entry have to select different languages). Nowadays many songs are in English with say 1 verse in another rare language - the song should still be marked as English, and it is possible that these parts will remain untranslated. I like the "transliteration" type of idea - but it sounds more like a new translation feature within the lyrics themselves, and someone will ask why they should only be in say English and it will create a mess. It can eventually be limited to translating this part in the language the song is mainly at - in this way it will be "unified", I guess.

As for the comments, I'd suggest more visibility of them within the requests - something saying "There is X comments for this request" at the top maybe?

Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013

Why in english? --- because it is the only language we all understand here, isn't it?
I don't know, e.g there might be a song I like but it may also have arabic parts and I don't understand arabic and just give up translating it.
This situation is tough..

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

We have users that don't speak English.

But there of course also are bilingual texts in which neither language is English.

Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013

In this case, translating x language parts into the source language would be better (?)

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

Sure. Or in any language at all; I wouldn't restrict what languages these parts can be translated into.

Moderator of the Balkans :)
Joined: 07.12.2012

While I support the option of the users to choose what language they would translate into, I see it creating problems in the long term (like someone asking why this language and not that one, plus as mentioned there are bilingual songs with none of the languages being English), so I do think restricting to the "source" language chosen as main would benefit the feature - in that way you can have the whole song in one language. Everyone who wants it in any other language can always make/request a translation. But, of course, this is just my opinion - I have no idea what and whether can be implemented.

Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013

Yes, I have no idea about that, too. Thanks for sharing your opinion!

whimsical chatterbox
Joined: 14.09.2013

A unique target language sounds like a wise limitation to me too. Or else the combinatorics could get out of hand fast. Plus the possible squabbles about what the target language should be in the first place, as CherryCrush said.

Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013

The target language, of course, is in the first place. Nobody said it wasn't. Thanks for sharing your opinion!

whimsical chatterbox
Joined: 14.09.2013

Sure, I was just trying to cover all angles.
Sounds like an interesting idea. Let's see what the powers that be make of it :).

Editor from the Kingdom of Isolation
Joined: 21.06.2013

Yes, excatly!

Super Member
Joined: 11.10.2014

I've translated a few bilingual songs, and been bothered by the problem that the bilingualness is sometimes an important aspect that needs to maintained for the song to make sense. So I have occassionally when translating from English to Spanish and the song wass bilingual in those two languages simply translated the English parts to Spanish and the Spanish parts to English all at the same time so that the end result is still bilingual. Obviously that doesn't work when translating to a third language, and with more than two languages in a song it doesn't work.