Moderator and guesslator
Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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Here's the passage I'm trying to translate:

Intr-o zi va fi suficient ca fiinta iubita sa existe acolo,undeva.
Atat de mare va fi dragostea pt toti cei care din iubire sunt neantelesi.
Dar important este sa iubim daca nu suntem iubiti si astfel o sa fim neangratiti de faptele mai putin frumoase ale celor pe care ii iubim dar nu ne iubesc.

One day it will suffice that the beloved one exist somewhere, anywhere.
So great will be our love for all those who are (neantelesi -> love).
But what's important is to love, not to be loved, and thus ???? ... that we love them, but not that they love us.

words that are giving me trouble:
neantelesi
neangratiti
celor

Thanks for your help!

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Imagen de aylin_22
Se unió: 22/03/2011
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Hello, I hope I can help you a little further...
"neânteles" is mostly used as "neînteles" (misunderstood)...
and I couldn't find "neângratiți" in any online dictionary...Dexonline.ro found "neîngrădiți" ( unlimited, free, released from sth...)...I thought it could be the right word in the text.
"celor" is the genitive of "cei" and means "of those"...

This is my proposition : One day it will be sufficient (to know) that the beloved one exists somewhere, anywhere.
Our love will be so great for all those who are misunderstood in love.
But it's important to love if we aren't loved and so we'll be freed from all those less beautiful things/acts of those we love, but who don't love us.

But...don't stick to my opinion only Wink as I'm still making a lot of mistakes in Romanian too...Maybe you'd better wait for advise from a native speaker...

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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Stick to Aylin's opinion, she got it right... this time Tongue

Se unió: 19/03/2012
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One day it will be enough for the loved one to exist there, somewhere.
That's how great love will be for those who in love are misunderstood.
But it's important to love even though we are not loved and in this way we will not be chained by the less beautiful acts of those whom we love but don't love us back.

I hope this helps. Smile

Moderator and guesslator
Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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Thanks for your help! I think I understand it know. It sounds like a Sufi teaching to me. But maybe I'm wrong.

Calusarul, this is something Denisa posted on her Facebook page. Does that make you want to listen to more manele? Smile

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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Denisa (who)? The manele singer?
Well, I only want to help you, but it doesn't really make me want to listen to more manele. I only like a few manele songs. I try to be open-minded and not to be a snob, but I just don't... feel it, you know. I can say I like rock music, but I don't like any song that belongs to that genre too.
I mainly don't like manele because I don't like their lyrics - which I think are rather phoney - and because most of them are not genuine/authentic, they are other countries' pop-folk songs translated into (bad) Romanian language.
But you can always try and tempt me.
Tell me your opinion on manele so that I can see how other people see that genre.

Moderator and guesslator
Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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Yes, Denisa Raducu.

One way of looking at manele is as a living folk music tradition. As with any other folk music, there is a lot of unattributed melodic and textual appropriation and mixing, sometimes a low level of literacy and language which doesn't conform to the 'standard' usage of the ruling class, lots of sensational themes including illicit love and crime, simple harmony, and melodies and harmonies which share a pattern which makes them easily recognizable as belonging to that musical tradition, but which sometimes makes one song sound much like another.

Another way of looking at it is as the equivalent of rap music in the United States: the musical expression of a despised and oppressed ethnic minority, who have little access to the material resources and musical education necessary to produce 'sophisticated' music, but who use what they do have to produce an authentic musical expression of their feelings, lives, and social situation, which is filled with a crude energy and power that makes for enjoyable listening. Of course, some rap music is very sophisticated, and once a rap artist gets rich they have access to all the resources, musical or otherwise, that they could need. But it starts out with someone appropriating a record made by someone else and improvising rhymes to it, or a little part of it, that certainly don't conform to the 'standard' definition of good poetry in English.

Of course, since I don't understand Romanian or Bulgarian, I just listen to it for the sound, although once I do find out what the lyrics mean I usually find that it adds to my enjoyment.

Don't you find at least the beginning, a capella part of Buzele Tale even a little bit lovely? Doesn't Laura Vass have a beautiful singing voice?

Moderator and guesslator
Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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I would try to translate this, but I can't find the lyrics written anywhere.

Calusarul, what do you think?

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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I think you have a pertinent opinion on manele (in theory), but (in practise) I think there still have to be created good songs in that genre. Most of the songs I've listened to so far aren't really great (I am subjective here, of course).
Unfortunately, I can't help you with that song. First of all, it's not a manea. Second of all, it's a Gypsy song, I like it, but only the first part is in Romanian. Here it is:

Am auzit, mândro, bine, mândra mea,
Da, că vrei să te lași de mine, mândra mea,
Dar lasă-te, mândruțo, zău,
Dar numai să nu-ți pară rău,
Dar lasă-te, mândruțo, zău,
Dar numai să nu-ți pară rău.

I'm afraid I can't help you with the rest because it's in Gypsy / Romani language and I can barely understand a few words.

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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Ah, and I had no idea what Denisa's surname was (is) or what she looked like. "Buzele tale" is a bit cheesy in my opinion. (De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum est.)

Moderator and guesslator
Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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I like that Tsigane song too. The singer, Nicolae Guta, is now a big manele star, so it was very interesting for me to see him starting out doing roots music Smile

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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Yeah, I know Guță. If he hadn't changed his style, I would have liked him too now Tongue

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Imagen de Katherine0825
Se unió: 29/06/2009
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words that are giving me trouble:
neantelesi
neangratiti

That's because they're misspelled. There's one rule of Romanian spelling, maybe the more commonly used one in my experience, where î is used in the beginnings and ends of words, and â is used in the middle of a word. The exception to that rule is when there is a compounded word, like a word with a prefix as the two above are, in which case, if the original word begins with î, then the compounded word will retain the original spelling even though the î is now in the middle of the word. Here, they changed it even though it shouldn't have been changed. I've seen that error before.

I just got back from Romania 3 days ago (I was there for 10 days). I heard enough manele for a year. Tongue

~K

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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Haha. Where did you hear those manele, Katherine? At parties? In the subway, on the street? I think that they are actually a bit less popular than they were 5 or 10 years ago.
And did you practise your Romanian skills or did people practise their English on you? I hope Romanians treated you nice, or else I'll... tell them a few good old Romanian profanities.

Moderator
Imagen de Katherine0825
Se unió: 29/06/2009
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LOL...I heard them at parties, in taxis on the radio, etc, etc...

I did practice my Romanian, but I had to be careful not to say I was from the US right away because people would then want to practice their English! The people treated me VERY well, so no profanities needed Smile

~K

Super Member
Imagen de AdamR
Se unió: 15/01/2012
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"One day, it will suffice to see , really the love exists there , somewhere .
Then the love will be so great for all those who don't understand love.
But it is important to love even if we are not lovers, because in this way we'll get rid of the less nicer facts caused by those who we are in love with, but don't love us."

As for N. Guta, I translated few , maybe you like...

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Imagen de AdamR
Se unió: 15/01/2012
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Did you read message #16 ?

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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AdamR escribió:
Did you read message #16 ?

Whom are you asking that? Me?

Super Member
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opps.. no... sorry. It was for the original poster.
I checked and the former translations were not good enough, so I did one for her. Thanks for yr attention.

Moderator and guesslator
Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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Thanks for your help, everyone! Here is how it think it should sound in English:

One day it will be enough for the beloved to exist somewhere, anywhere.
That's how great love will be, for those who are not wise in the ways of the heart.
But it's important to love even if we are not loved, and in this way we will not be imprisoned by the less beautiful actions of those whom we love, but who don't love us back.

Latin is one of the few languages I'm familiar with in which it's often possible to say things more concisely than in English. I'm beginning to think this is also true of Romanian Smile

Super Member
Imagen de AdamR
Se unió: 15/01/2012
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It seems that we couldn't help you much. Because your translation still has several mistakes..
but i don't know why you have made it again..because I already gave you the correct translation few blocks above. Is there anything there you don't understand or, you think wrong ?

Moderator and guesslator
Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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"Really the love exist there, somewhere" is neither correct nor idiomatic English.
Facts can't actually be gotten rid of, nor would one usually say in English that a person causes a fact. "She caused the fact that..." is not idiomatic English.
"the less nicer facts" is not correct English.
If I am a lover, it means either that I am one who does the action of loving, in which case I could not love without being a lover, or it means I am in a romantic relationship. But in this case 'we are lovers' is almost never used except to express that 'you and I are in a romantic relationship with each other.' If we are not 'iubiti' but there is someone we love, who doesn't love us, then to say that we are not lovers doesn't accurately describe this situation. We are loving, we are not in a romantic relationship because our love is one-sided, but you would not express this in English by saying "I am not a lover," you would say "I love in vain" or "I'm in love but I'm not in a relationship," or "I love but am not loved in return."

Certainly, you understand the meaning of the text better than I do. But your English isn't good enough for you to fully express your understanding in English.

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Se unió: 15/01/2012
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I would give you a longer response but .... let me say in another way : now consider again how is your translation above in the light of your explanation to me .
If you see any relation or correspondance either in overall meaning of the text or word-to-word correspondance , I'll pass anyway.... If you have understood what you have written above , that's very fine with me as well.
However, ... the love really exist there, somewhere... seems perfectly alright to me. It is neither incorrect idiomatically nor wrong in any other manner, say gramatically, in English. It is not even an idiom. It is just a plain phrase.
She speaks considering the people who don't believe that love exists, and says that :..the love really exists there , somewhere.. (even if we don't know where at this very moment)..
Every nation has own way of saying the things or facts. If you force me to say the same thing just so as to maintain the overall meaning, (probably it is OK as well but) wording would follow totally another path surely. And , in such case, you wouldn't find the corresponding Romanian words in the English text.
I tried to make a balance between the concept and wording of the original text rather than just translating the concept.
One more point, the speaker has a gipsy background, and speaks colloquially. The sentences are too long and irregular, and she does not follow the usual subject-verb-object order. So, with a limited knowledge of Romanian grammer and vocabulary, it is quite hard to make a perfect "guesslation" of such long sentences. Still it is fun... enjoy !

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Imagen de fulicasenia
Se unió: 25/02/2012
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AdamR, I admire your manly self-assurance. One trick I often use when translating, is to google each little phrase in quotes, so that it only returns hits for that exact phrase. For instance, when you google "there, somewhere" you get about 11M hits, because it's a very commonly used phrase in English. People often say, for instance, "I know it's there, somewhere" (2.7M hits). On the other hand, if you google "really exist there, somewhere" you get zero hits, because this is something a native speaker of English would be quite unlikely to ever string together. People often string together "exist somewhere" or "really exist" or "there, somewhere," but for some curious reason, which I can't really explain, "really exist there, somewhere" just doesn't get used. By the way, love exists, since it is singular, whereas several different things in a bunch exist, since they are plural-- but even with a plural noun before it, "really exist there, somewhere" just isn't likely to be used in English. It's almost impossible for non-native speakers to predict whether a grammatically plausible combination of words will in fact sound common and natural, or strange and unheard-of, unless they have themselves heard it used many times. That's why I rely so much on google when I translate into German, which is not my native language.
Of course, if I really tried, I could think of an English sentence that would have that phrase in it. "I wasn't able to find a single bathing beauty on Ibiza last summer-- people laughed at me when I inquired about them, as though I were in search of the philosopher's stone or the fountain of youth. But I'm going back this summer to search again, since I'm convinced they really exist there, somewhere. I just haven't looked hard enough." The difference between my use of this phrase, and yours, is that in my paragraph there is a specific place, Ibiza, for the 'there' to refer to. The 'somewhere' then refers to an unknown place somewhere on Ibiza. If we are simply claiming that love exists somewhere in the universe, there is no specific place for the 'there' to refer to, so a native speaker of English would use 'somewhere' or 'anywhere,' but not 'there.'

Super Member
Imagen de AdamR
Se unió: 15/01/2012
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I appreciate your liveliness in the forum as well as your persistence on your threads. It is really nice, no joke.
By the way, nice statistics..
I didn't check google, neither I depend on google translation as much as you do.
But it seems that you have missed few points in my mail.
1) Firstly this lady is a gipsy, and I don't know how google translates the accents to give its proper impact in the minds, or how it deals with the colloquialism or some slangs or any other phrase that is actually gramatically incorrect but it is in everyday's use by people.
2) Secondly I think I had already said that I did not translate it in respect to solid English gramatically, but did so that one can find the corresponding Romanian words to get the feeling of what she wants to say. So, I really don't care what google says about "if the love or lover really do exist ... or maybe not Smile
3) Now , in the guidance of your suggestion, and also for a bit of fun, I did a google search as follows :
"exist there somewhere" : 686,000 hits
"exists there somewhere" : 137,000 hits
"existe acolo, undeva" (only in Romanian) : 2,750 hits
4) For further fun, i put your original phrase to google translate :
Original :
"Intr-o zi va fi suficient ca fiinta iubita sa existe acolo,undeva.
Atat de mare va fi dragostea pt toti cei care din iubire sunt neantelesi.
Dar important este sa iubim daca nu suntem iubiti si astfel o sa fim neangratiti de faptele mai putin frumoase ale celor pe care ii iubim dar nu ne iubesc."

Google :
"One day will be enough to be beloved there somewhere.
So great is the love for all who love are misunderstood.
But the important thing is to love if we are not loved and so will be less beautiful neangratiti the facts of those whom we love but not love."

Your final translation :
"One day it will be enough for the beloved to exist somewhere, anywhere.
That's how great love will be, for those who are not wise in the ways of the heart.
But it's important to love even if we are not loved, and in this way we will not be imprisoned by the less beautiful actions of those whom we love, but who don't love us back."

I'll go direct if you don't mind :
1) Google translation couldn't handle it nicely at many parts, right ?
2) "to exist somewhere, anywhere" gave hit 1,210 hits Smile
3) "exist somewhere, anywhere" gave hit 5,210 hits Smile
4) Your inspriration from google's translation is very obvious but maybe we'd better call Calusarul to duty here .... hehe Smile

Have a good day.

Editor
Imagen de Calusarul
Se unió: 21/01/2010
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I hate being a moderator and reading comments that I don't really enjoy.
(God, I asked you to make me a rich banker, not a poor moderator Tongue )

Anyway, you, guys, I'm allowing each of you one more nice comment, no subtle or less subtle irony, just one more nice comment and I'll close the thread afterwards, considering it has already served its purpose. Let's be polite and put an end to this conversation.