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I'm trying to understand "ηλτον" in this sentence :
« ουκ ελαβον πολιν αλλα γαρ ελπις ηλτον εφη κακα »
Thank you in advance !
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Is that ancient Greek? The words look like that to me.
If it is, then "ηλτον" is probably misspelt. It should be "ηλθον", which means "I went" or "they went".
Furthermore, the rest also doesn't make much sense. Here it says that this is not proper Greek but French masquerading as Greek: http://littlebrownbrother.net/?p=175
And some other websites translate "ηλτον" as the name "Elton".
EDIT: Here's a French explanation: http://sohiedelamarsa.canalblog.com/archives/2011/08/30/21898302.html
It's probably ἦλθον 1st sing / 3rd plur past tense of ἔρχεσθαι
Wild guesses: ἥλατον 3rd p past of ἅλλεσθαι or ἠλᾶτον 3rd p past οf ἀλάεσθαι
It would be helpful if you provided the diacritics because it doesn't make much sense
I think this is most probable
The translation is: They didn't take the city but hope (ηλτον) said bad things
Right, right, right, it must be "ηλθον", the aorist form of ἔρχομαι !!!
My grandfather learned that joke at school (in the year 1920 ...) and used to translate it : They didn't take the city and actually (any) hope was said bad.
Of course french signification can be radically different :)
Thank you very much Sciera and Evfokas for helping. I'm trying to teach some old greek to my oldest grandchild, but not not only jokes ! "True story" from Lucian of Samosta and Aesop's Fables would be fine but at first a need a strong refresh myself !!!
What a wonderful endeavour you've taken up, but don't push him hard because people should like what they're learning or they won't. You can use this online tool to type ancient greek characters in case you don't have the corresponding keyboard. The use of diacritics helps get the pronunciation right and also distinguish between homophones (in your phrase the meaning changes slightly if αλλα is ἅλλα or ἀλλά)
In any case "ηλτον" doesn't seem to belong in this phrase or the "french" version, if it were a verb it should be in participle form to make sense because the verb in this clause is ἔφη
Good luck with your endeavour
Ok, thank you ! I had a doubt about and finally it's only a nonconforming add for the french joke.
Yeah I'll do it softly and thank you for the links. I remember myself !! It was at first a hatred for my native mathematician "brain" to learn languages. French native, living in Italy, student in a german school, my father force me to learn also Latin and old Greek. I strongly hated him several years ...
Later, I changed my mind about and now want to say : Thank you Dad ! But for my daughters, I simplified the menu and they tell me to have been glad with such a choice : At school, mathematics - French - Old Greek - English and at home, some Italian.
In my opinion, Greek is really much more educational and pleasant than Latin overall for french natives ! I say it for the treasures of stories and ways of thinking but also for the language himself so much subtle and the root of a lot of words in several languages ( mathematic "language" included !!!)
My conclusion for every one : Learn old Greek and your life will change because your mind will change :)
I couldn't agree with you more and I'd say ancient greek supplied word roots in almost every scientific field, but the works of classic writers are the most valuable since they were real free thinkers without the hardwired dogmata of even the most progressive modern free thinkers, and you can find texts describing how pure logic groped the frontiers of things that trouble us now and for many years to come
My favourite apophthegm μηδέν ἄγαν
Text from modern thinkers ?
I totaly agree !!
I meant texts from classical free thinkers. To give you some examples Parmenides and Plato have figured out the quantum nature of Cosmos and how it's different from what we perceive and still today quantum theory is far from complete and full of paradoxes, Pythagoras stipulated aether as the medium existing in the perceived vacuum and you can see it unexplained still today as the cosmological constant for the vacuum energy of space in Einstein's general relativity