Îmi permit să rog utilizatorii de limba română să folosească diacriticile ( Ă ă Â â Î î Ș ș Ț ț ) deoarece

  • limba română literară se scrie cu diacritice,
  • lucrul ăsta ajută pe cei care studiază româna să pronunțe mai bine și
  • se evită greșelile de traducere.

Un exemplu de traducere greșită l-am găsit în traducerea în engleză a cântecului Nu mă las de limba noastră - O-zone. Traducătorul a folosit cuvântul move pentru muti în loc de speechless, mute sau dumb pentru muți, iar greșeala nu putem să o imputăm traducătorului.

Sper că nu vă deranjează sugestia mea. Mulțumesc.

Calusarul     gennaio 6th, 2012

I have no idea why my comment above is messed up. Here's what I meant.

Calusarul     gennaio 6th, 2012

I guess the only non-political solutions are
a) î everywhere or â everywhere - as the simplest solution or
b) etymological spelling: sûnt < sunt, român < ro ma nus, rîu http://dexonline.ro/lexem/voi/61389a ) which is used mainly as an auxiliary verb for the future (like "will"). I used it to show a combination of will (volition) and future (tense). It's perfectly natural in Romanian, but it is an archaism, now we'd rather say "nu vreau să plec" or "nu voi pleca".

Katherine0825     gennaio 6th, 2012

The article by Pruteanu sounds very much like what my teacher says...a lot of the same arguments. My teacher argues that the change in 1993 was actually political too...that it was done at least in part because of some perception that using "â din a" was somehow anticommunist while the older rule was not. I got into this discussion with a troll on YouTube once (he was trolling my YouTube page), and he didn't retain the î spelling in words with prefixes! I was astonished that he was flaming me and calling me an idiot for writing with the "older" rule but he couldn't even use the other rule correctly! He must be like the many Americans who can't spell or speak English correctly.

Just a few suggestions regarding the translation of the Doors song:
1. I think "royal babies" is meant literally...something like "copii regali"
2 "Do you know how pale and wanton thrillful"..."wanton" means "careless, frivolous, inconsiderate, self-indulgent, not paying attention to the consequences", sometimes it's also used to mean "savage" or "malicious" (a wanton attack) So "flămândă" doesn't really fit..."capricioasă' would fit better if you interpret it as "frivolous, careless", or "sălbatică" if you interpret it as "savage, cruel".
3. This is more a question...you translated "I will not go" as "nu voi să plec"---I have never seen the future tense written that way. I've seen "nu voi pleca" and "nu am să/o să plec". What's up with this? I'm curious.

~K

Calusarul     gennaio 5th, 2012

Let's forget about grammar or spelling, and focus on meaning! Neither of us is a member of the Romanian Academy, we don't have Lady Gaga's success or fortune, let us stick to our translations and music.
How well have I understood this song?

Calusarul     gennaio 5th, 2012

I do not doubt your teacher being great, I was pushing my luck in this conversation just to see how you, a foreigner, react and think of our lnguage. I wanted to know how you see this language as a "foreigner", just like your teacher. I try to see things that way too sometimes. I want to love what's good and to hate what's bad in Romanian culture.

Still, bear in mind that using the pre-1993 rule (î everywhere but for România, român) is not the simple way, but a political statement. It means we use î, but our origin is Rome, the Roman empire. The simple way would be to use î in every single word, including Romînia, romîn (even though that seems strange to my eyes as well).

Now, the complicated rule implemented after 1993 makes a good point in my opinion: it makes the speaker (writer) of Romanian realize when prefixes are used, it makes him/her aware of grammar rules, word-componding, and possibly helps him form or study lexical families. Strange enough for me to say that, isn't it? Not too much gain, isn't it? But I prefer make it simple or complicated, not political.

A great professor that supported your teacher's opinion, George Pruteanu (a lovely person in my opinion as well), said at a time: "some Romanians use opteșpe or even a worse version optâșpe instead of optsprezece". I never understood why optâșpe was worse. That was the moment when I needed to stand up for â, be it â or î. Tongue

That is my "harsh" opinion, but I consider myself a nice person in "practise"/reality. I just don't politics.

Now, did you know that "Old English words were spelled, more or less, as they were pronounced" (wikipedia), still a lot more than today, and that "woman" was masculine long time ago?
If English used phonetic spelling (which will never happen), you wouldn't be able to understand Lady Gaga's lyrics on lyricstranslate, not to mention Shakespeare Tongue

Katherine0825     gennaio 5th, 2012

My teacher also taught me "nici o" and "nici un" as separate words, so he must be conservative Smile He did tell me about the fact that the "official" spelling is different, but he gave a good justification for using the "older" spelling (he also told me that more recently, words like "nici o" are spelled as one word). He is really an excellent teacher, given that I was able to communicate when I went to Romania last year and I'd been studying for less than two years at the time. I even gave a medical lecture in Romanian (my teacher came to the lecture, which was awesome...I was really nervous but having him there gave me moral support). Granted, I do learn languages easily (learned Spanish easily as well) but still, he was a demanding and perfectionistic teacher, and was able to see his own language as a "foreign" one, which was great.

Interesting how "conversational" speech is different from what we'd learn in the classroom. There are lots of examples like that in English as well, even commonly used phrases that are actually grammatically incorrect and irritate English teachers.

It would certainly be a mess in the short term to implement a more phonetic spelling, but long-term it would probably be helpful...LOL, but it would look weird! (just imagining reading a page of English written phonetically...LOL) I imagine the "older" spelling in Romanian must look weird to people who have been taught the newer, "official" spelling since childhood. I was taught the older spelling, but I've seen the "official" spelling so much that it doesn't look strange to me.

~K

Calusarul     gennaio 4th, 2012

Katherine, in private I speak like:
mine nu mă pasioneazăi-ai dat tu lu' Maria și lu' Ion cartea cu împrumut.
But in class I say (most of the time Tongue ):
Pe mine nu mă interesează că le-ai dat tu Mariei și lui Ion cartea cu îmrumut.

Calusarul     gennaio 4th, 2012

Turcanin, Microsoft and other (IT) companies don't really care about our commas or cedillas. There are many Romanians working for Microsoft, but they are engineers (programmers), not linguists.

Katherine, I personally think implementing phonetic spelling into English would be a mess, so much literature needing to be transcribed, spelling bees canceled Tongue
Your teacher is conservative, I guess, because he uses a spelling that is no longer official. One can use whatever spelling rules he likes in private, but a teacher of Romanian is supposed to teach rules adopted by the Romanian Academy. Example: in 2005, the phrases nici o, nici un, nici una officially become single words: nicio, niciun, niciuna (in most cases, not all). Now, we can use whichever, but a teacher of Romanian is supposed to teach that to his students, newspapers and publishing houses have to use that rule. Even the Academy cannot change any of its decision sooner than 20.
Anyway, don't mind me,

Katherine0825     settembre 28th, 2011

My laptop has English, Spanish and Romanian keyboards Smile Any computer I use for any length of time gets them because I can't stand to write without diacritics. Call me a purist, but on the few occasions where I've had to write without them (using a friend's computer or one at the airport or something) it has bugged me in the worst way!

~K

newEgypt     settembre 27th, 2011

Try a German keyboard, and you're going to know how hellish that is when you're trying to write something where punctuation marks matter. My main workstation has a German keyboard, but my lappy has the standard American one. It's JUST PERFECT when all you're trying to do is write a couple of lines of code or something like that.

It's just like those RHD British cars, where the steering wheel is on the right side for no particular reason. However, I do think that there was a qwerty variant of the Romanian layout, that's something to investigate.

Katherine0825     settembre 27th, 2011

I have the locations for the diacritics memorized already...LOL. I've practiced a lot since I started studying Romanian in 2009 Smile All I have to do is remember to switch the keyboard! What drives me nuts is that the Y and Z keys are reversed on the Romanian keyboard for no apparent reason!!!

~K

newEgypt     settembre 23rd, 2011

Note to Katherine: you can always get some cheap keyboard stickers and slap them onto any cheap keyboard and just plug it in whenever you feel like writing in Romanian. To be honest, I like my keyboards too much for stickers, but the first item on the shopping list when going to any foreign country whose language I am interested in is picking up a keyboard with the local letters. Put that above the oua decorata for your next trip. Smile

Here's an example: http://www.amazon.com/ROMANIAN-KEYBOARD-LETTERING-TRANSPARENT-BACKGROUND...

Katherine0825     settembre 6th, 2011

Părinții mamei mele s-au născut în Polonia. Tatăl tatălui meu s-a născut în Polonia și mama lui s-a născut în SUA și nu știu foarte mult despre ea cu excepția faptului că bunica ei era mexicană. Am auzit limba poloneză cînd eram tînără, dar nu pot s-o vorbesc...pot să înțeleg puțin. Vreau s-o învăț într-o zi.

~K

aylin_22     settembre 5th, 2011

Salut, îmi pare rău că nu am raspuns mai devreme, dar n-am internet acasa Sad
Cred că traducerea ta e corectă, dar chiar în franceza, versul din mijlocul nu referă la primul...

In English the meaning is the following : that whovever who wants to scold the baby can do it, but the little baby will live ...Maybe you can compare with this...'cause this is still a little too difficult for me to write in romanian Wink

Si cred că mesajul tău m-a luat noroc...prietenul meu m-ai scris aceasta dimineaţa că e posibil că o să pleacă la Spania în octombrie, când eu voi fi acolo Smile

Calusarul     settembre 5th, 2011

Aylin, am înțeles, e bine că e în regulă. Și mă bucur că ai primit vești bune de la prietenul tău.

Katherine, dacă nu sunt indiscret, spune-mi, te rog, ce origini are familia ta (părinții, bunicii).

Katherine0825     settembre 5th, 2011

LOL...da, prietenii mei mi-au spus că sînt o persoană atipică Smile Nu am nici o altă legatură cu România...am mers în România după ce am învățat limba. M-am întîlnit cu profesorul meu cînd am fost acolo. Mi-a plăcut țara foarte mult și mă voi întoarce în România în anul viitor (pentru aceeași misiune medlcală).

Îmi place cîntecul pe care l-ai scris mai sus (The Doors) Smile

~K

aylin_22     settembre 2nd, 2011

Salut ! Povestea mea este diferită...In 2007 m-am întâlnit cu un băiat (un chelner din restaurant unde mergeam în fiecare seara) în Spania, şi credeam până anul trecut, că era spaniol. Anul trecut, m-a spus că erau ultime zile de muncă la restaurant pentru el...Iar, cum a vazut că eram tristă, mi a dat adresa e-mail al lui... Atunci, am scris (sau am încercat să scriu Wink), în limba spaniolă...dar el mi-a raspuns în engleza (el vorbeşte spaniola prea bine, dar nu scrie deloc) că s-întorcea la România...
şi acum încerc să scriu în româneste, dar stiu că el râde cu greşeli că fac Smile
Şi tot să visez că vom putea întâlni din nou, o dată, dar şi stiu că parinţi mei nu vor lasă-mi merge la România Sad

So I hope it is clear enough, because as I wrote already, I am really better in understanding and reading than in using languages myself...And I hope I didn't write horrible things Smile

Calusarul     settembre 3rd, 2011

Aylin, am văzut că limba ta maternă e franceza. Spune-mi, te rog, cum se traduce corect versul de la mijloc?

Son papa le gronde..
gronde qui voudra,
ce petit poupon vivra...

Eu am zis să-l certe cine-o vrea [pe copil], dar nu știu dacă acesta e sensul.

Calusarul     settembre 3rd, 2011

Katherine, cred că ești o americancă atipică și bănuiesc că și prietenii tăi te consideră o persoană atipică. Și nu ai nici o altă legătură cu România, vreun strămoș, ceva?

Aylin, eu cred că oooh, love hurts! Nu uita să...

Take it easy, baby, take it as it comes
Don't move too fast if you want your love to last
You've been movin' much too fast

Go real slow, you'll like it more and more,
Take it as it comes, specialize in having fun

Katherine0825     settembre 2nd, 2011

Da...îmi place să studiez limbi străine și am învățat limba spaniolă acum 25-30 de ani. Am auzit Dragostea din Tei (O-Zone) în anul 2009 și puteam să înțeleg cam 15-20% pentru că știam limba spaniolă. Cînd am încercat să traduc cîntecul mi-am dat seama că limba română e o limbă foarte frumoasă și am hotărît s-o învăț. Am început cu o carte "Teach Yourself Romanian" dar nu a fost suficientă. L-am găsit pe profesorul meu pe Internet și m-a învățat limba română pe Skype. Am fost în România pentru o misiune medicală în martie-aprilie 2011 și m-am descurcat bine cu limba română.

Katherine0825     settembre 1st, 2011

It is *easy* to use the Romanian diacritics on most computers. I live in the US and I placed both a Romanian and Spanish keyboard option on my computer when I started studying Romanian in 2009. It is a problem with some browsers and operating systems, however, that they either replace ţ and ş with another symbol or use the Turkish letters instead.

Sînt de acord cu tine că e mai bine să scriem cu diacritice! Cînd nu pot să ascult un cîntec (şi nu pot să aud cuvîntul corect), e posibil să fac greşeli...s-a întîmplat cu mine şi a trebuit să fac o corectare mai tîrziu cînd am ascultat cîntecul. (dar traducerea mea de "Nu mă las de limba noastră" e corectă pentru că am ascultat cîntecul...îmi plac O-Zone şi Dan Bălan foarte mult! Înţeleg cum, fără diacritice, e posibil să facă greşeala)

~K

Calusarul     settembre 1st, 2011

Da, traducerea ta din O-Zone e corectă; scuze că am scris comentariul acela nepotrivit acolo.

În altă ordine de idei, Katherine și Aylin, ce v-a determinat să studiați limba română? A pornit de la cântecele românești pe care le-ați ascultat și îndrăgit?

aylin_22     settembre 1st, 2011

In fiecare oare că scrieţi “Ş” sau “ţ”, eu văd “”…Şi aici la forum...iar atunci este dificil sa inţelege pentru noi (când nu stiem dacă e “Ş” sau “ţ”)...Nu stiu dacă alte membri au acelasi problem cu versurile tăi...

Anyway...the reason I don’t write all diacriticals is that if I want to write “Ş”, “ă“ or “ţ”, I always have to write in a word document ( with Insert- Symbol-… ) and then paste it here :-(…

turcanin     gennaio 7th, 2012

aylin_22:

The problem you have with the Romanian diacritics might be due to the software you're using. Apparently it's the new standard that is not completely downwards compatible.
I also see simboluri străini when I use a simple text editor.
You might consider using a word editor. This would give you the opportunity to use a Romanian spell checker.
The safest way to go is to use the HTML entities for html pages like this one, although it's a little cumbersome.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_alphabet
You might also consider using this:
http://www.archeus.ro/lingvistica/AdaugareDiacritice
if you have a text without diacritics. It's not the best solution, but still…

Calusarul     settembre 1st, 2011

Well, you know, the reason for you seeing a strange symbol instead of the diacritics is in your operating system or browser, not this website fonts/settings.
I hope other users have Eastern European fonts available and have no problem seeing the lyrics I publish here.

I sometimes have to write in French and I don't know where the accents are on my keyboard, so I use the text spelling check (I use LibreOffice as a text editor) and then copy the whole text on this site or I use the method of copying them from wikipedia (French alphabet) and then paste them in the text one by one when I need them.

Anyway, if you can't use Romanian diacritics, it's OK, but I would like those who can to actually use them. Smile

P.S. Your letters Ş and ţ are still not Romanian, they are Turkish (with cedilla), while Romanian diacritics have commas: Ș ț.

Calusarul     agosto 31st, 2011

Literele cu diacritice din limba română sunt disponibile pe site-ul ăsta. Dovada: Ă ă Â â Î î Ș ș Ț ț

N-am înțeles partea de mai jos
Ai găsit litere/simboluri străine în versurile puse de mine pe site? La ce anume te referi?

aylin_22     agosto 31st, 2011

Buna ziua! Sugestia ta nu ne deranjeaza deloc! Dar, cred ca va fi dificil pentru membri care nu traiesc în România...caci nu au diacriticile pe testaturi nostri Sad ...Si m-întreb daca toate diacriticile sunt aceptate pe site-ul...am vazut deja simboluri straini printre versuri tai Wink

So, I hope you understand what I wrote...because I 'm not Romanian and I can't write it very well...but I always want to try Smile