Daraus, dass Einer dich einmal gewollt hat...
Because One once willed you...
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fulicasenia la 2016-03-17fulicasenia în data 2016-03-18| 1. | Ich lebe mein Leben in wachsenden Ringen |
| 2. | Herbsttag |
| 3. | Der Panther |
fulicasenia
Joi, 17/03/2016 - 07:21
Thanks for your suggestions :)
Since it's by Rilke I'd just as soon let it sound a bit quaint. "Gott hat es gewollt": "God willed it" or "God wanted it?"
I can see how you might get "might as well" from "dürfen auch," but to me it sounds too much like "heck, we might as well." I didn't just use "we may want" because it could also be interpreted as "it's possible that we want."
sandring
Joi, 17/03/2016 - 07:51
But dürfen and may have one common meaning - permission. And there's a contrast of past and present. I get the meaning as "If somebody wanted you in the past why can't we do it at present or in future?" There's possibility and permission in one. Do you think it's possible to say "We may as well want you" to skip that colloquial reference. And "God willed it" sounds right to me but "God willed you" looks like God gave you the will to do something. I'm not very good at German but I like your translation otherwise I would have never butted in. Good luck :)
Lunar12
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 14:38
Okay so I myself cannot speak any other languages fluently I'm working on Korean and expanding my Spanish knowledge(I barely know anything) But this was a huge help This song is an amazing song! And in German is just as amazing as in English! Thanks for this and I hope you have a very nice day!
Jadis
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 15:06
What could be interesting IMHO, would be that :
1/ somebody would explain the exact syntax and meaning of "Der vollen". Here I see "the full-laden", OK, what is full-laden ? What grammatical case is this ? Is "der" an article or a pronoun ? Is some word implied, and in that case, which one ? If "der" is a pronoun, what is its antecedent? Etc.
My current hypothesis is that it is an apposition to "der Steine" (genitive plural, complement of the noun "die Stille"), so it would mean "the silence of the stones, the full [ones]"? (but I could be wrong).
2/ somebody could give us a clue about the general meaning of the poem (I found some analysis somewhere, but I couldn't understand much of it, although it was written in French)
Klaarzin
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 20:18
1/ I think your hypothesis is correct. "Der" as a pronoun makes no sense, because "vollen" is an adjective. There is no verb "vollen". So "Der" is an article and "vollen" is an adjective. "Der vollen" is an apposition to "der Steine". That makes sense,
because in the translation "of the stones, the full [ones]" the word "full" means "full of gold". So "full-laden" is in my view an excellent translation.
2/ For good understanding of the poem look at the structure and especially the colons. Everything after the first colon to the white space is an image to help understand the central idea: Even if we would reject (verwürfen is in subjunctive time) all deeper thought and feeling, it will come out - be revealed - anyway, because god makes it so.
Rilke speaks of gold, so this "it" is very valuable, but that is all he says about "it". In my view this is a very positive poem.
3/ I think the capital of "Einer" in the first line is not correct. I've checked some texts of this poem on the internet and in those "einer" was in small type. That makes a big difference, because "Einer" is being associated with the Christian god. I doubt that Rilke already in the first line speaks about god as a creator. At the end of his life he rejected the roman-catholic view on god. Rilke's view resembles somewhat that of Spinoza: "Deus sive Natura".
But then, who or what is this "einer" in the first line? I have no well defined answer. And maybe that is OK. Rilke himself did not understand everything he wrote.
Jadis
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 20:55
Rilke himself did not understand everything he wrote.
This reassures me completely! :)
But the possibility that "Einer" was just "einer" terrified me : so, the little I thought I had understood appeared to be false! So I feverishly jumped to Google and searched, but it seems that everywhere I could look at, Einer is written with a capital E. When I first saw that capital letter, I immediately thought : ah, he's talking about God. If it weren't God any more, so I couldn't find the slightest piece of sense in it. The fact that he says "Einer" (and not : Gott, or something similar) shows us that he keeps some distance with religion, IMHO.
OK for "full of gold". It's very, very, elliptical, but it seems to be the more probable meaning.
Now it seems that we have progressed a bit, thank you! I'm sure that some day we will be able to get what Rilke himself didn't understand... :)
Pinchus
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 21:48
If I'm not mistaken, throughout all the "Das Stunden-Buch" the author addresses to God as "you", not "You" or "Thou" - for more intimacy. [@Dandelion]?
> If seems to me that capital letters are reserved to God
Unfortunately, I don't know german rules concerning capital letters, but know their are complicated.
But if Einer is God, who is "you"? Some human? But the author didn't speak to Leda: "if Zeus wanted you, we want you even more".
If you don't like Abraham, you can take an abstract Ancient Human
dandelion
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 22:51
Филипп, по-моему, Пинхус совершенно прав: в Часослове Рильке обращается к Богу на ты с маленькой буквы. Обратите внимание вот на это стихотворение: https://lyricstranslate.com/ru/rainer-maria-rilke-du-nachbar-gott-lyrics...
Здесь прямое обращение к Богу и разговор с ним на ты (du, dich...).
Что же касается обсуждаемого стихотворения - тут действительно загадка. Я тоже не знаю, кто стоит за этим Einer. Могу только строить предположения.
Простите, что пишу по-русски. Я, к сожалению, не умею объясняться по-английски.
Pinchus
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 23:09
Вот, кстати, такой перевод нашел:
And because someone once wanted You,
I know that we may want You.
And even if the depths held no meaning for us:
if a mountain had gold in it
and no one else wanted to dig it out,
the river would bring it to the surface,
reaching into the stillness of the stones,
the replete ones.
For even if it is not what we desire:
God ripens.
(http://www.cingolani.com/Rilke_Stundenbuch.html)
I think it's good, like the Fulicasenia's translation.
Klaarzin
Joi, 16/12/2021 - 22:44
Please consider the possibility that "einer" just means "someone" and "dich" is human. We are allowed to want this human (woman?), because someone has wanted her or him. What do we know of the personal life of Rilke? Maybe he is adressing one of the many women in his life and reassuring her in this intriguing way. It is maybe the introduction to the central idea: Even if we would reject all what is deep and hidden, it will come out - be revealed - anyway.
Of course I am not sure of this. Why is Rilke not more clear? Well, he hardly ever is. And that is his magic.
Freigeist
Vineri, 17/12/2021 - 05:59
>"Daraus, dass Einer dich einmal gewollt hat,"
I think the capital "E" is wrong in any case here, because God isn't referred to in capital letters in personal pronouns in German, different from English.
>" Der in die Stille der Steine greift,
Der vollen."
"der vollen" can only refer to "die Stille", because to reference it to "der Steine" wouldn't make any sense.
It should stand for: "die vollständige Stille der Steine".
I'd translate the second line something like this: "I know we might as well want you" :) And I'm not sure about that "willed you" thing. Looks a bit quaint to me :)