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الثلاثاء, 14/05/2019 - 22:45

Aghh. Too much generalization and not enough...
Never take one side arguing their means to be right or wrong.
Some argue dropping nuke on Japan saved lives and served as deterrent to Russia... Maybe so, but vaporized innocents and sick generations of innocents are the ones who suffered. So if we stick to this example, what possessed Japan to be on hitler's side, what possessed normal people to become kamikaze pilots?
Also, nuclear tests were conducted next to civilian population, even though effects of radiation were already known. Also, agent orange use in Vietnam - harmed US forces just the same... Sooo, Nobody defends US for its transgressions.
But, you tend to omit facts like genicide in Yugoslavia. People who lived side by side, all of sudden killed their neighbor, raped, tortured, and buried people in mass graves. Who promoted, nursed, incited them? When will it be clear to people that this isn't in their interest?
We can stand up to this hatred...if we want to...

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 13:17

Just on the topic of deterring Russia, it didn't deter them at all, in fact, they found out about the plans for the nuclear bomb and shortly revealed their own, so honestly, by that point, we walked away scotch free for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. The only reason NATO or the West can get away with the revolting shit we do is because of victors rights, or just "Bigger stick diplomacy". If a nation loses a battle no one sympathizes, but if the people all of the sudden jump on and praise them. So never forget that to the eyes of a world organization who believes in "peacekeeping" so long as you win the battle and horribly maim the enemy to the point they cannot complain about war crimes and that there was a moral position to justify your "means to an end act", all of a sudden carpet bombing the fuck out of a developing nation somehow no longer is that bad.

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 01:54

St.Sol wrote:

Why don't you personally visit Crimea and ask people there directly? Many European MP's did ...

The European MP's who followed the invitation to witness the poll after the annexation of the Crimea by Russia were throughout members of extremist right wing parties (except for a few disoriented German leftwing party members) who support the Putin agenda to destabilize the European Union.

St.Sol wrote:

"The internationally recognized borders of the state are invulnerable."
The hypocrisy of this statement is deafening.

Territorial integrity is the principle under international law that prohibits states from the use of force against the "territorial integrity or political independence" of another state. It is enshrined in Article 2(4) of the UN Charter and has been recognized as customary international law. Conversely it states that imposition by force of a border change is an act of aggression.

The international imperialism violates this rule which the United Nations have agreed on, or invokes it, just as their policies require it.
It's not a way to say "Your imperialists violated it, so I support my imperialist to do the same".
As I wrote in my previous statement, as a wage dependant citizens or small traders or intellectuals, you name it, we should not support any imperialist's policy, may we live in their country or elsewhere.

To your info: There was a anti war movement against the NATO-war on Yugoslavia in most major German towns, doing regular protest rallyes and demonstrations with many thousands of participants. I was one of them.

St.Sol wrote:

... after cutting out the historical birthplace of Serbia (Kosovo) and giving it to Muslim migrants ...

To say that is nothing but racist agitation from your side.
The population of Kosovo has changed during the centuries from a Serbian majority to a Albanian majority.
That's what happens in history. No ethnic group "owns" a territory of this earth forever. We have just borrowed it for a certain time.

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 14:51

"The European MP's who followed the invitation to witness the poll after the annexation of the Crimea by Russia were throughout members of extremist right wing parties (except for a few disoriented German leftwing party members) who support the Putin agenda to destabilize the European Union."

Clearly: Ad hominem. You just can't trust these right wingers, and disoriented left wingers, and all these brown people, and all these asiatic barbarians and other untermenshes to tell the truth, right? The burden of a white man (c) must be too heavy for you to bear, despite clothing yourself in progressive ideas. Considering neo-nazi Ukrainian govt. (installed by the West and now the West's favorite tool against Russia), Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions, paying SS veterans state pensions, but at the same time refusing to grant citizenship to nearly halves of their own country non-native, mostly Russian populations (you know: must preserve the racial purity of the nation's blood, can't let something like Kosovo happen to THEM!!!) - the hypocrisy is indeed deafening. As one Russian political commentator once said (paraphrasing): "the exploitative, colonizing essence of Europe has never changed. It is only a matter of time before Hitler is rehabilitated and exonerated in EU, after all most Europeans believe (even without openly admitting it) that he was right, and his only fault is that he failed in his quest." Considering what is happening, I find it hard not to agree.

"Territorial integrity is the principle under international law that prohibits states from the use of force against the "territorial integrity or political independence" of another state. It is enshrined in Article 2(4) of the UN Charter and has been recognized as customary international law. Conversely it states that imposition by force of a border change is an act of aggression...."

Appeal to authority. Clearly an act of aggression against Yugoslavia has occurred as well as border change imposed by force (no polls or referenda of any kind were held in Kosovo, what happened instead was ethnic cleansing of Serbian population from their own land, aided and abetted by people like you and your tax money, whether your supported it or protested - this is irrelevant).

"To your info: There was a anti war movement against the NATO-war on Yugoslavia in most major German towns, doing regular protest rallyes and demonstrations with many thousands of participants. I was one of them."

And the result was? Did your democratic govt. listen to you and change its policy? (ha-ha)

"To say that is nothing but racist agitation from your side.
The population of Kosovo has changed during the centuries from a Serbian majority to a Albanian majority.
That's what happens in history. No ethnic group "owns" a territory of this earth forever. We have just borrowed it for a certain time."

I never said anything racist, just the well known facts. Albania was already a country, but the Albanians settled and established a second one in Kosovo with the help of NATO bombing of yet another Slavic nation. I think the pattern here is undeniable: unite (western) Europe, divide and rule all others.
In a simple test, let me visit you in your house, stay for a few years there as a guest, then bring my family with me, then tell you: you see, the population of your house has changed over time and you are a minority now, that happens in history, you can't own your house forever, I also have needs, and now I need your house all for myself. Surely, based on the Kosovo precedent, you won't dare to say No to my humble request, right? Because if you do, you will be ethnically cleansed with the help of friendly bombing. Do we have a deal?

The burden of a white man must be really hard to bear.

الخميس, 16/05/2019 - 21:53

St. Sol wrote:

You just can't trust these right wingers, and disoriented left wingers, and all these brown people, and all these asiatic barbarians and other untermenshes to tell the truth, right?

First of all: terms such as "asiatic barbarians" and "untermenshes" belong to your mindset, not to mine.
"You just can't trust these right wingers ... to tell the truth, right?"
Right!
The right winger parties all over Europe, first of all in Germany which I can assess, prove every day that their policy consists of nothing but lies sedition and disinformation.

St. Sol wrote:

... neo-nazi Ukrainian govt. (installed by the West ...

Let's see ...
Weren't there elections in Ukraine lately, and even before Putin unlawfully occupied the Crimea?
Was the government installed by the West or was it elected by the Ukrainean people?
Weren't there regular elections in Ukraine in October 2013 and just now in April this year, with more than one candidate?
When has Russia seen this last time? Ever?

"Neo-Nazi government" ... was Poroshenko a "neo-nazi"? (we aren't talking about Selenskyj yet ...)
Well, if you say "nazi" I suppose you mean "fascism".
Some of the benchmarks of fascism is violent oppression of any type of opposition, de facto elimination of free speach/press and abolition of democratic rights.
If we hear this which state do we think of? Ukraine ? ... Or Russia?

"Humanrights.ch" has a long list of violations of human rights in Russia, and a very short one about the Ukraine.
Russia occupies rank 148 in the ranking of press freedom 2018, Ukraine rank 102. (Reporter ohne Grenzen)
Russia ranks 95th (out of 126) in the Fundamental Rights category in 2018, and Ukraine ranks 77th (Rule of law index)
So which country's government is closer to fascism, Russia or Ukraine?
Whoever gets more "likes" is the winner! ;)

Btw.: Putin is going to cut off Russia from the www.
Too bad we soon won't see you here any longer. ;(
He must be really afraid the Russian population getting informed about his lies and ruthless actions with the Russian population ...

St. Sol wrote:

Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions,

That sounds very much like RT-fake news.
Please provide a proof for that, but a proof that is not created in Kremlin disinformation workshops ... !

St. Sol wrote:

"the exploitative, colonizing essence of Europe has never changed. It is only a matter of time before Hitler is rehabilitated and exonerated in EU, after all most Europeans believe (even without openly admitting it) that he was right, and his only fault is that he failed in his quest."

Precisely that's what I meant ...
🤮

St. Sol wrote:

And the result was? Did your democratic govt. listen to you and change its policy? (ha-ha)

Of course they didn't.
The denial of the Nato-war wasn't widespread enough.
They have all the media under their control spreading propaganda about the cruelty of the Serbs and the justification of the attack.
They are imperialists, after all.
That you even taunt the fight for a just matter shows how arrogant and ignorant you are.
Shame on you, St. Sol.

St. Sol wrote:

I never said anything racist, just the well known facts.

Of course you have.
You said: "giving it to Muslim migrants".
You started agitational propaganda against ethnic Albanians by pointing out that their religion (if they practice any at all) is Islam.
That is deliberate discrimination.
The next type of discrimination and agitation is to call the Shqipni population of Kosovo "migrants".
That is utter nonsense and distorting history.
Kosovo always had an ethnic Albanian population, even when the Serbs first conquered it in the 12th/13th century.
250 years later the Serbs retreated from Kosovo completely and it belonged to the Osman Empire for 450 years, until the Serbs conquered it again in the Serbo-Turkish war of 1876. Later the Serbian government had to entice Serbs to settle in Kosovo, because nobody wanted to go there, because it was so poor. By the means of ethnic cleansing they tried to deminsh the Alabanian population, including the killing of 10.000 Albanian civilians in 1912.
So the Shqipni (Albanians) always were in Kosovo, much much longer than the Serbs ever and they were anything but "migrants"!
(You could rather call the Serbs occupants of Kosovo)
Throughout history the Shqipni have mainly suffered from the Serbs.
Nevertheless the enforced separation of Kosovo from Serbia by the West was an act of imperialism.
Although, had there been a poll of the local population the outcome would have been the same.
So I'd regard it as a minor crime of imperialism.

St. Sol wrote:

In a simple test, let me visit you in your house, stay for a few years there as a guest, then bring my family with me, ...

You are welcome, as long as you pay the rent ...
:P

St. Sol

الثلاثاء, 21/05/2019 - 14:31

Wow, the Western iron curtain must be really strong and the fog of Russophobic propaganda must be really thick and dense in Bundesrepublic. Of course I knew that before, I just didn't expect a supposedly progressive person to be so easily manipulated by it. Back to your points:

"You just can't trust these right wingers ... to tell the truth, right?" Right!

Did you know that Russia invited everybody (who wanted to do it) to witness the Crimea referendum without any restrictions? Do you know why most EU MP's (except some Putin's stooges as you call them) refused to come? Because they already had their minds set about it; THEY DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, it is that simple (just like you don't want to know it and keep repeating propaganda lines about "annexation" without even trying to form an informed opinion yourself. I can't say I am surprised though, the non-stop propaganda being fed to you is really slick, and it starts from shifting the frame of the debate so that you don't even have the reference point for informed opinions. Dr. Goebbels must be really proud for his students).

"Neo-Nazi government" ... was Poroshenko a "neo-nazi"? (we aren't talking about Selenskyj yet ...)
Well, if you say "nazi" I suppose you mean "fascism".

You really didn't know? Honestly? Didn't know who planned, funded ($5B figure was openly admitted by US), and executed the Ukr. coup of 2014? Didn't know who set up the training camps and trained the future Ukro-Nazi "rebels" in Poland for the coup? Didn't know who gave them weapons? Didn't know about Ukrainian Social-Nationalist party (not fascist but self-proclaimed Nazi party) whose ideas and heroes (look up Bandera and Shukhevich - currently OFFICIAL national heroes of new Ukraine, and who they were and what they did. Google to your aid) formed the mindset of new "revolutionaries" and whose slogans are now official greetings in Ukraine? ("Україна понад усе" is an exact copy of Nazi: "Deutschland über alles"). Didn't know who and how appointed Poroshenko to be the president? (forget the "elections": Nazi gangs with machine guns and heavy weapons ruled and still rule the land there on the ground, they manned the polling stations, but to keep the appearances they were conveniently renamed "National Guard", the decision to appoint Poroshenko was made in DC not in Ukraine, you didn't know that? the elections where he "won" the absolute majority in the first round with multiple candidates were a total sham, and of course foreign "advisors" counted the votes). Didn't know that Germany's choice for Ukr. pres. appointee (please note that several Western countries were trying to "elect" their own Ukrainian presidential puppet, except Ukraine - nobody asked its people) was Y. Timoshenko, but that wish was overruled by the "senior partner," whose word is final? Poroshenko is a businessman (and an alcoholic): whatever his political convictions were (if any), he had to repeat Nazi slogans and dance the Nazi party line to stay the president. So, perhaps, he was a reluctant Nazi, but Nazi nonetheless; he started the war on Russian population of Donbass, Ukro-Nazis still shell the area and kill women and children there, you didn't know? Ukro-Nazis waging war in Donbass were implicated in human organs trade with EU, you didn't know? So when your elderly relative gets a liver or kidney transplant, the body parts might have come from Russian children, murdered by Ukro-Nazis in Donbass and harvested for parts - you might want to check that beforehand if you care. Hitler would be really proud.

"Humanrights.ch" has a long list of violations of human rights in Russia, and a very short one about the Ukraine."

Willful blindness of "humanrights" doesn't change the facts on the ground: Ukraine now is fully functional Nazi state, and you are willingly or unwillingly supporting it. The centuries-old European dream is at hand: after depopulation of Ukraine, the new, much more worthy and racially pure owners will settle the land; Hitler's dream will be fulfilled.

"Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions,"

You honestly didn't know that? Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia to be exact: You didn't see them parading the central streets of their capitals in full SS uniforms and regalia on evening TV news? Google to your help, since your local TV stations obviously didn't carry these news.

"The denial of the Nato-war wasn't widespread enough. ...
That you even taunt the fight for a just matter shows how arrogant and ignorant you are."

My point exactly: the majority of your and other EU countries and their citizens either supported or were indifferent about the war on Yugoslavia. Killing foreigners in foreign lands doesn't concern an average EU citizen and it never did. Also, after highlighting so many holes in your knowledge of the current situation, I will let others decide who is ignorant here. As for me, I am rather old and saw many things in this life you can't possibly imagine. Yet, Nazi occupation of Ukraine in 2014, planned, aided, and abetted by the West, (Ukraine used to be a beautiful place I visited many times in the old days), will never be forgotten or forgiven.

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 05:04

St. Sol wrote:

Did you know that Russia invited everybody (who wanted to do it) to witness the Crimea referendum without any restrictions? Do you know why most EU MP's (except some Putin's stooges as you call them) refused to come?

Of course I know that. Different from Russia our media is not government controlled and they offer a quite widespread array of opinions. Unlike Russia there are critical reports and opinions about the government on TV and in the press.

Reputable members of non-extremist European parties refused to participate in the referendum on Crimea, because the whole thing was illegal and with their participation they would have legalized it.
Kremlin placed a bait, but the rats smelled the poison. Too bad for them ...
Who gladly accepted the invitation were members of the notorious wellknown rightwing lepers of Europe, such as "Flams Belang" (Belgium), "Front National" (France), "FPÖ" (Austria), Lega Nord (Italy) AfD (Germany) and other obnoxious fascist individuals.

About Ukraine:
Of course there are fascists and fascist organizations in Ukraine. In 2014 there even were fascists members of Ukrainean government (Jazenyuk administration). But they were in a clear minority.
That means: the government as such never was fascist.
Of course Western governments and secret services supported Janukowych's overthrow. Of course they didn't like his turn towards the Kremlin. But that are matters of the Ukrainean people to deal with.

St. Sol wrote:

he started the war on Russian population of Donbass,

BS! Some Russian Millionaire hired mercenaries and soldiers of the Russian army officially "on leave" (Kremlin: "We can't know what they do in their vacations..."), had them militarily equipped with the support of the Putin administration and sent them to infiltrate in Donbass and start provocations on Ukrainean troops and policemen.

St. Sol wrote:

Ukro-Nazis waging war in Donbass were implicated in human organs trade with EU, you didn't know? So when your elderly relative gets a liver or kidney transplant, the body parts might have come from Russian children, murdered by Ukro-Nazis in Donbass and harvested for parts - you might want to check that beforehand if you care.

Even bigger BS! In Germany thre are no bodyparts of uncertain origin transplanted, and I can't imagine that for any other EU-country. Give evidendence and source for such cases, or I call you an agitator and a liar.
There are very many examples known of Kremlin propaganda lies about things that allegedly have happened in Donbass.
Whoever is brainwashed enough believes every single one of them.

St. Sol wrote:

The centuries-old European dream is at hand: after depopulation of Ukraine, the new, much more worthy and racially pure owners will settle the land; Hitler's dream will be fulfilled.

You are completely paranoid, Mr. St. Sol!
Go see a doctor!

St. Sol wrote:

"Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions,"
You honestly didn't know that? Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia to be exact: You didn't see them parading the central streets of their capitals in full SS uniforms and regalia on evening TV news? Google to your help, since your local TV stations obviously didn't carry these news."

I have asked you to prove this statement by showing valid sources.
Don't even think you can get away by saying "Google to your help"!
That's not a way to lead a political polemic.
That's not how it works!
Either you prove it by providing valid verifiable credible sources, or you'll be called a professional agitator and a liar!

St. Sol wrote:

the majority of your and other EU countries and their citizens either supported or were indifferent about the war on Yugoslavia. Killing foreigners in foreign lands doesn't concern an average EU citizen and it never did.

Again you despise the anti-imperialist fight of the European people and you try to hold the people responsible for the actions of their governments. That's nothing but a call for war of people against people, and you show clearly that you are supporting Russian imperialism.
Are you one of those St. Petersburg Putin trolls, Mr. St. Sol?

You do never stop to accuse everybody who is of a different opinion or who critizises Russian imperialism a Nazi.
This is about YOUR real Russian nazis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV4v31azgQM

Igeethecat

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 05:15

Hans and St., I beg you - “stop it”, please or take it “PM”

Jadis

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 06:53

Strange that the Russians can't bear that the Ukrainians (and others) had their own country, their own government and elected whoever they want. I guess they haven't quite got the signification of the word "independence" yet.

But when you look at who are the best friends of Russia by now, it's quite interesting : Bashar Al Assad, one of the greatest war criminals in the world (after Milosevic, who was nearly an angel compared to him) ; the mollahs in Tehran (criminals, fanatics, trying to stifle the Iranian society by all means, and to destroy Israel of course) ; Maduro (incompétent dictator who made a ruin out of his rather wealthy country) ; Kadyrov, the Butcher of Caucasus ; Kim Jong Un (more or less) and the Chinese leaders... All of them very sympathetic people.

Putin also supports Transnistria, where the ex-Soviet mafia reigns, in order to better encircle Ukraine... Now look at all the former communist countries who knew the Russian power in the last decades : which one of them wants to be on the Russian side, except Belarus ? Ukraine ? Poland ? The Czechs (1968) ? The Slowaks ? The Balts ? Hungary (1956) ? Romania ? Bulgaria ? Ex-DDR ? Georgia ? Chechnya ? Ah yes, Armenia, because they fear the Turks even more than the Russians. Isn't it strange that all those countries flee Russia like a plague ? Isn't it strange that precisely the ones of had to know the Russian best are the ones who run faster and further of them ?

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 15:43

Yes, yes: unite the Europe, divide and rule all others, separate brothers, put them against each other, never let them unite: that would be too much of a threat, right? Plans to split Ukraine from Russia existed since the early 20th century (actually 19th), Communists did a lot to help that, but even they couldn't have imagined what was done to "independent" Ukraine that they created - as everybody should know "Ukraine" never existed as a country until 1920's, its language was artificially created from Malorussian Russian dialect to eliminate most of semblance to Russian language by the western "helpers", its "new" history is all fake, apart from the true history of long and repeated treachery and betrayal, etc. (all heil the chocolate king or whatever his appointed successor is. Nazis? we don't see any damn Nazis there!)

vevvev

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 14:08

...since the early 19th century...

BlackSea4ever

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 16:43

Oh, God. What is that joke about monkeys - did Ukrainians come from Russians or Russians from Ukrainians?
There is no support of anyone here, at least I don't think, to any fascist tendencies of any leader including Ukrainian.
Unite Europe - yes, although nobody invaded Greece at its weak moment. Germany was united.
Who made USSR break - western influence had nothing to do with this!
Sol,
why are you sidetracking into the old strife? Admit it - Russian government is corrupt and divisive enough on its own. Let's concentrate on people that struggle to make ends meet - how do we get everyone [you first] to stop defending the limited accomplishments each leadership had and concentrate on how to stop this astonishing corruption and lack of attention to the environment?

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 18:16

I respect your personal opinion, but you must surely know that "the entire democratic world community supports and stands behind Ukraine and its (Nazi - SS) government in its struggle against "Russian aggression", right? So you can't honestly deny that the entire Western democracy and Ukrainian (Nazi - SS) government are the feathers of the same flock, right? They (the collective West) all support their own (Nazi - SS) Ukrainian creation, they planned this for years, they set up Ukr. Nazi training camps in Poland to prepare the cannon fodder for the coup, they indoctrinated and brainwashed Ukrainian population with tall tales of EU membership and promises of life of honey and riches (all these are documented facts), and now they are sucking its corpse dry while depopulation of Ukraine proceeds at full speed. And to those who say that Russians can't tolerate independent countries (like Ukraine): they surely can and do, they just won't tolerate Nazi govt. at its borders, ready to put NATO nuclear first-strike capabilities targeting Russia in Kharkov or Donetsk. That should be clear to anybody.

Schnurrbrat

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:54

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:56

Those who planned and executed all this, and those who condemned the results of all this on TV are not the same people, that's all.

Jadis

السبت, 18/05/2019 - 07:24

I guess Poroshenko is as much a nazi that I am the Queen of England. He is a businessman and he busied himself with chocolate, until he was elected (by the way, the Roshen chocolate and sweets aren't bad, even if of course they can't be compared with Swiss or Belgian chocolate). In a Russian mind, of course every Ukrainian is a nazi, thanks to Russian propaganda. Well, Putin is not a nazi, but he often behaves worse than the nazis. And of course he lies, lies, lies all the time (KGB school), sometimes so childlishly that you may wonder who in the world could believe him.
(Edit) BTW, when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he didn't hide himself and pretend his troops where not German, as Putin did when he invaded Crimea. Hitler said : here we are and we are German. Putin said no no, it's not us, they are no signs on the soldiers' uniforms. That's a major difference, for sure.

vevvev

السبت, 18/05/2019 - 08:09

Please stop using expressions like "Russian mind". Apparently you do not know anything about this. And, I beg you, stop repeating propaganda clichés like "...Putin lies, lies, lies...". Putin does not lie any more than any other politician... For example, he never refused Russian military forces in Crimea.
Sorry, could not resist. In my opinion, we need to stop this long, futile, and even harmful discussion.
P.S. Chocolate Roshen really aren't bad :)

السبت, 18/05/2019 - 17:18

@vevvey
If you feel bothered by the green dot notifications you just press the "Unsubscribe"-button right above this.
;)

Ivan Luden

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 07:04

vevvev wrote:

Putin does not lie any more than any other politician... For example, he never refused Russian military forces in Crimea.

Oh, stop spreading misinformation here!
On YouTube - a lot of videos in which Putler is lying brazenly:
Putin Evolution lies on the occupation of the Crimea - https://youtu.be/baeIAqC7_A8
Putin's lies about the Russian military in the Crimea - https://youtu.be/iVvFIwoabzA
Putin's lies about Russian Troops in Crimea (English Subtitles) - https://youtu.be/vnpUmoUVPAM
etc etc etc...
Do you have a short memory?

السبت, 18/05/2019 - 17:12

Jadis wrote:

... when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he didn't hide himself and pretend his troops where not German, ...

But like all the imperialists before and after him he used a blunt lie to justify the start of a major raid:

Wikipedia wrote:

The Gleiwitz incident was a covert Nazi German attack (SS) on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz on the night of 31 August 1939 (today Gliwice, Poland). The attack is widely regarded as a false flag operation, staged with some two dozen similar German incidents on the eve of the invasion of Poland leading up to World War II in Europe.

Putin tried to justify his invasion of Crimea by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death.
So Putin just had to come and protect them ...
This propaganda legend is maintained in Russia up to the very day, as it seems ...

St. Sol

الثلاثاء, 21/05/2019 - 14:58

"Putin tried to justify his invasion of Crimea by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death."

A perfect propaganda example, worth deconstructing word by word:

"Putin tried to justify" - No, he openly acknowledged that up to 25,000 Russian troops were in Crimea continuously and legally (per signed and ratified agreement with Ukraine), well, since the 1850's to protect Russian Black sea navy base and fleet from potential incidents like the 2014 Ukr. coup.

"his invasion of Crimea" - No invasion of any kind happened, troops on the ground did their job and protected the naval assets, and also made sure that Ukro-Nazis didn't interfere in the referendum. No one was killed during the alleged "Russian invasion" of Crimea, unlike orchestrated mass killings during the Ukr. coup, burning dozens of protesters alive in Odessa by Ukro-Nazis, Ukro-Nazi killing Crimean protesters in a bus, returning from Kiev right at the Crimea border crossing, etc.

"by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government" - If one talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi. Hiding behind "allegedly" is like saying: Hitler was a good artist who allegedly (and unjustly) was called a Nazi.

"that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death" - Ukro-Nazis never tried to hide their plans for Russians in Ukraine: Google their favorite slogan during the coup "Москаляку - на гиляку" and many others. In their own words: "Ukraine must be a racially pure state - No Russian, Pole, or Jew will remain there after the "revolution." Now, repeat together with your beloved Ukrainian democratic revolutionaries: Sieg Heil!

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 03:54

st. Sol wrote:

If one talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi.

Putin administration supports ideologically and financially all right wing and pro-fascist Western European parties.
"... talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi."

Ivan Luden

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 07:35

St. Sol wrote:

"by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government" - If one talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi. Hiding behind "allegedly" is like saying: Hitler was a good artist who allegedly (and unjustly) was called a Nazi. "that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death" - Ukro-Nazis never tried to hide their plans for Russians in Ukraine: Google their favorite slogan during the coup "Москаляку - на гиляку" and many others. In their own words: "Ukraine must be a racially pure state - No Russian, Pole, or Jew will remain there after the "revolution." Now, repeat together with your beloved Ukrainian democratic revolutionaries: Sieg Heil!

You also have a short memory?
Then remind you:
"Кто не прыгает, тот чурка!" ("Who does not jump, the chock!" - "chock" is an abusive name for a person from Central Asia) - https://youtu.be/fZNE0OUfscE
(place of action - is Petersburg, allegedly the “cultural capital” of the Russian Federation, the date of posting the video is December 15, 2012)

"Кто не прыгает тот хач!" ("Who does not jump that hach!" - "khach" is an abusive name for a person of Caucasian nationality) - https://youtu.be/5yaDDBea8hI
(place of action - the official capital of the Russian Federation, Moscow, video posted on Nov. 4, 2011)

"Neo-Nazi forum held in St. Petersburg" - https://www.dp.ru/a/2015/03/22/V_Peterburge_proshel_forum/
"The World Congress of the neo-Nazis in St. Petersburg. A photo" - https://hueviebin1.livejournal.com/150663.html
"Convicted neo-Nazi goes free after Russian government partially decriminalizes ‘inciting hate and enmity’"
"Russian Ultra-rightist Political Groups (Including Neo-Nazi Groups)"
etc etc etc...

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 09:59

My dear, you forgot to mention one tiny difference between Russian Nazis and Ukrainian ones: in Russia promoting Nazi ideology is a crime, in Ukraine Nazis are in power and Nazi ideology is the official ideology of the state.

Jadis

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 10:18

Just like in Hitler's Germany, being a communist was a crime. As to "Nazi ideology as the official ideology" of Ukraine, I guess even a wooden horse would laugh at such bullshit.

Олег Л.

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 10:46

Ты знаешь, что на Украине коммунистическая идеология запрещена? Да, быть коммунистом - это преступление в нацистской Украине. Зато там можно кричать "хайль" и проводить факельные шествия, как в фашистской Германии, в честь украинского нациста Бандеры.

Ivan Luden

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 11:06

Бандера практически всю войну (с 1941 по 1944 год) просидел в немецком концлагере, фашисты зверски замучили двух его братьев.
Зато нынешняя путлеровская Эрефия - это настоящий правопреемник власовской армии (в которой на стороне нацистов воевало более миллиона человек).
Погуглите, и вы легко найдёте картинки, как советские солдаты во время Парада Победы в 1945 бросают власовский триколор к подножию мавзолея.
Кстати, а вы знаете, сколько Героев Советского Союза воевало в рядах армии Власова?
А вы знаете, в каком городе Эрефии установлен памятник командиру казачьей дивизии СС генералу Краснову?
Украинские нацики, все вместе взятые, на ВСЕХ выборах (президентских или парламентских) получают голосов в 2-3 раза меньше, чем пророссийский кандидат в президенты Украины (фамилия которого - Рабинович).
Национальность нового Президента Украины вам напомнить, или не надо?
Да, Олег, а можно задать вам один личный вопрос:
Вы уже попросили прощения у главы Чечни, героя россии Ахмата Кадырова (того самого, который "своего первого русского убил в 16 лет")?
Если "нет", - то поспешите, пока не поздно...

Олег Л.

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 19:39

О чем мне разговаривать с обезумевшим голимым русофобом, который просит перевести на английский антирусский стишок, написанный дурочкой, которой еще и в проекте не было, когда мы с украинцами уже столетиями были братьями? И останемся братьями, несмотря на попытки нацистско-бандеровской власти оболванить украинский народ.

St. Sol

الخميس, 23/05/2019 - 15:44

Этот вроде-бы неглупый(?) человек(?), называющий себя русским(?), любящим родную(??) культуру и язык, слово в слово повторяет нацистские Укро-методички (кстати разработанные за границей специально для народа Украины), которые день и ночь крутят по всем Укро каналам. Готовый продукт тех, кто построил свое благополучие на принципе "разделяй и властвуй" и кто пожертвует им не задумываясь.

Know thy friends close, but thy enemies closer.

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 18:16

@Jadis: Sorry, are you confused?
"being a communist was a crime" in Hitler's Germany: correct. And what did German Nazis do to communists, please remind me again?
Being a communist IS a crime in modern Ukraine. Do you need to be told what Ukro-Nazis did to communists? Do you fail to see any analogy to Nazi Germany here?
"Nazi ideology as the official ideology" of Ukraine: please look up Ukrainian decommunization laws, language laws, official national heroes of Ukraine (S. Bandera and R. Shukhevich, the commander of the Nachtigall Battalion and SS hauptmann, as well as one of the organizers of the Halych-Volhyn Massacre), the SS insignia worn by Ukro-Nazi troops, the official slogans, policies, and ideology of Ukr. govt. Take your time, really take all that in in its entirety, if possible read their original documents, not the versions edited for Western consumption, then tell me if you still don't see Nazi ideology as the official ideology of new Ukraine. Imho, even a wooden horse wouldn't fail to notice it, but keeping yourself blind and deaf to reality is apparently your choice.

@Hansi: Please stop saying "fascist", "elements of fascism" when discussing Ukraine: most people in power in modern Ukraine come from or are associated with Ukr. social-nationalist party and related Ukr. nationalist organizations. They are building a social nationalist Ukrainian state, but from changing the word order their essence doesn't change: they are building a National-Socialist Ukr. state (Nazi for short, there is no better word to describe it).

الخميس, 23/05/2019 - 10:50

@St. Sol:
It must be a real funny way to "build a social nationalist Ukrainian state, Nazi for short" allowing an independent comedian to become president.

St. Sol

الخميس, 23/05/2019 - 15:52

Don't be naive: that was the will of the Ukrainian foreign handlers (nothing in Ukraine is decided by the people, in case you didn't know), electing a clown to be president is also very fitting for modern Nazi Ukraine, so that people like you could say: See, the place is really free and democratic. Seeing beyond the charade must be really difficult for victims of indoctrination.
Oh, here is another funny tidbit for you: according to Israeli intelligence, one of these foreign handlers (a US general) was recently asked about the strong Nazi smell emanating from Ukraine (Nazi battalions, openly Nazi policies and laws, glorification of Ukrainian Nazi and SS "heroes" of WWII, constructing "new" Ukr. history based only on Ukr. nationalists, terrorists, and Nazi collaborators, and their dirty and bloody deeds in the XX century, etc., etc.). His answer was (paraphrasing): "But that is all they got, there is nothing else to base the new Ukraine upon." So, even Ukr. handlers admit that, when separated from mutual Russian-Ukrainian history, the history of nationalist Ukraine alone is a history of treachery, betrayal, and Nazi collaboration.
Also: since you seem to strongly object to calling the current Ukr. regime "Nazi", I will use "National-Socialist" to more accurately describe was is going on there.

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 11:41

St. Sol wrote:

(S. Bandera and R. Shukhevich, the commander of the Nachtigall Battalion and SS hauptmann, as well as one of the organizers of the Halych-Volhyn Massacre)

After intense research no evidence was found that R. Shukhevych ever was a member of the SS.
The "Nachtigall Battallion" was not a part of the SS.
R. Shukhevych was not accused to have been one of the organizers of massacres on the Polish population in Eastern Galycia and Wolhynia.
R. Shukhevych was denied the title of "National Heroe of Ukraine" in 2011, mainly for political and formal reasons.

You better stop accusing Ukraine to follow "Nazi ideology".
Obviously you have no idea what the Nazi ideology was.

Jadis

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 11:38

And the main question should of course be : was stalinism better than nazism ? And the obvious answer is : no, it was kind of different, but it was certainly not better, by no means.

Олег Л.

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 11:55

I think Macronizm is the best

St. Sol

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 12:55

Let's see: Stalin advocated world communism and all people's equality (although, using cruel autocratic methods and misguided ideas), Hitler advocated Aryan racial superiority and getting rid of ALL other impure blood, unworthy peoples by mass murder and other convenient means.
Hmm... That's a really tough choice here, don't you think?
As I said: Hitler's exoneration is surely coming to EU.

St. Sol

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 12:57

Defending the notorious Nazi butcher (sorry: the esteemed Ukrainian National Socialist, the holy fighter for the purity of Aryan blood, the cleanser of the Ukrainian and other lands from the Jewish, communist, Polish, Russian and other scourge, the unjustly accused saint of the Ukrainian National Socialist independence under the benevolent rule of A. Hitler, and the faithful servant of the last European Savior Adolf Hitler himself) Roman Shukhevich now? Wow: Hitler's rehabilitation in EU is definitely ahead of schedule and surely coming soon.
Citing the 2011 denial of the "National Hero" status? Did you forget that 2011 was BEFORE the Nazi coup in 2014? You'd better check Shukhevich's status in Ukraine NOW!
P.S. My quote about Shukhevich was copied directly from Wikipedia, so you all better rush and fix this nonsense now before more people learn these crazy "untruths" about this holy man.

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 12:53

St. Sol wrote:

My quote about Shukhevich was copied directly from Wikipedia,

Aha?
I was working mainly with Wikipedia ...
so please give your exact source!

St. Sol

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 13:02

"I was working mainly with Wikipedia ..."
Distorting and twisting my words again? That's not what I said, and there are tons of documental sources about Shukhevich's crimes against humanity, but let me say this:
Nazism has never died in Europe, and you are the prime example of that. Sieg Heil!

الجمعة, 24/05/2019 - 13:10

Just before the guys in the white uniforms take you away to the happy farm for good:
Why can't you give me a comprehensible source, (link, they call that)
instead of repeating all the old unproven sick clouds of your insane mind over and over again?

Ivan Luden

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 10:25

St. Sol wrote:

My dear, you forgot to mention one tiny difference between Russian Nazis and Ukrainian ones: in Russia promoting Nazi ideology is a crime, in Ukraine Nazis are in power and Nazi ideology is the official ideology of the state.

You're lying again!
Organized by neo-Nazis World Forum in St. Petersburg is a State Duma deputy from the "United Russia" and the chairman of the party "Rodina" Alexey Zhuravlev.
The whole world knows that today's Russia is a typical fascist state, at the head of which for nearly twenty years has been a thief and criminal authority Putin.

Ivan Luden

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 10:41

Russian economist, director of the Center for Post-Industrial Society Studies, Vladislav Inozemtsev says:

Happening since the mid-2000s in Russia - this is becoming a populist fascist regime, moderately aggressive. Mussolini in Italy, Franco in Spain and Salazar in Portugal - are the direct analogs of those who rule today in Moscow.

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 15:04

Regarding corruption: corruption will exist everywhere as long as governments exist - the two are inseparable. Fighting corruption is a favorite western tactic and pretext for regime change in countries that don't submit to their rule, and it's been long recognized as such (sorry, any Navalny supporters here - he is just another influence agent to undermine and sell out Russia). Fighting corruption in current circumstances, while laudable, IS a distraction and sidetracking from major issues at hand, and I am sorry that you got sidetracked.

BlackSea4ever

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 22:33

Sad if we accept is as given and raise no objection. It is not all about Russia.
Скажи нам: Кто вы? Как живёте?
Каков ваш мир? Что правит в нём?
В какой единственной заботе
Витает разум между дрём?
--
Природа – сказочная данность, –
Родное холит и растит,
Чужому ж, глупую незванность,
До истребленья не простит…
--
From https://lyricstranslate.com/en/nikolai-jincharadze-дворец-сапфира-lyrics...

Jadis

الخميس, 16/05/2019 - 13:37

This is true. Power corrupts - and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's the reason why we should never allow a dictator to climb too high, we should stop him before it is too late.

الخميس, 16/05/2019 - 10:37

We should stop him before he has the chance to become a dictator.
When he is a dictator it's too late.
;)

St. Sol

الخميس, 16/05/2019 - 20:16

"But when you look at who are the best friends of Russia by now, it's quite interesting : Bashar Al Assad, one of the greatest war criminals in the world (after Milosevic, who was nearly an angel compared to him) ; the mollahs in Tehran (criminals, fanatics, trying to stifle the Iranian society by all means, and to destroy Israel of course) ; Maduro (incompétent dictator who made a ruin out of his rather wealthy country) ; Kadyrov, the Butcher of Caucasus ; Kim Jong Un (more or less) and the Chinese leaders... All of them very sympathetic people."

Incidentally, all mentioned countries (whether you like their govts. or not) are the last ones remaining in the world, not yet occupied, destroyed, or co-opted by the globalist empire, and still retaining a semblance of independent foreign policy. Please pause for a minute and ponder this coincidence. There used to be others in that group: Iraq, Libya. What has happened to them?

Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear. Whoever has eyes to see, let them see. (J. Christ, according to Mark and Matthew gospels)

Jadis

الخميس, 16/05/2019 - 14:19

In Iraq there was a dictator called Saddam Hussein, who invaded Kuwait, and made a bloody war with Iran. In Libya there was another dictator, half mad, called Kadhafi, who threw Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor into jail, arguing that they had inoculated AIDS to Libyan children on purpose (!). Our President (Sarkozy) had to send his wife to him and finally he released them... although we don't know how much we had to pay for that. He then went to Paris and required to pitch his tents on the Champs-Elysées, which was granted to him... I wouldn't say that I regret him much, even if the situation is rather worse now in both countries.

St. Sol

الخميس, 16/05/2019 - 15:58

"even if the situation is rather worse now in both countries" - that's the key word here: millions have died and continue to die there because of foreign interference (liberation, deposing the dictators, doesn't matter whatever you call it), so the net outcome is negative, but some people still consider that to be a good thing. I believe medical dictionaries have a name for people like that.
Oh, and the first two things they did in "liberated' Libya were to establish the central bank and to "liberate" the country from its rather significant gold reserve. Think about that for a minute as well: what was the real goal of intervention in Libya?

Jadis

الجمعة, 17/05/2019 - 06:22

Well,it's always a pleasure to see a dictator being shot down. Saddam Hussein also had the fine idea to kill the population of a Kurd village with letal gas, so he was somehow a concurent of Al Assad. As to the goal in Libya, I guess that the Western powers were as usually short-sightened and didn't foresee the present mess (idealism, and other stupid ideas...) But when Putin kills 20% of the civil population in Chechnya and installs Kadyrov at its head, this is of course no idealism, this is very practical. When he quietly looks how the sailors of the Kursk submarine drown, it's quite practical too. When he sends his spetznaz to Beslan or to a theatre in Moscow with the brilliant result we know, the same. What is best, being an idiot or a bastard ? This is hard to decide. Many dictators are both at the same time.

St. Sol

الجمعة, 17/05/2019 - 18:32

"the Western powers were as usually short-sightened and didn't foresee the present mess (idealism, and other stupid ideas...)"

I had to laugh at this passage for a few minutes, sorry. The detailed military plans to destroy seven (that's 7) middle-eastern countries were ready and on the table well before 9/11 happened in 2001 - a US general eye-witnessed them and wrote about it. But for the hoi polloi, the tales of democracy and Western idealism always worked best. We all can see the results. But millions upon millions of dead souls cry out for revenge and justice.

BlackSea4ever

الجمعة, 17/05/2019 - 18:40

Revenge and justice?
Only those who don't personally sacrifice want this...
Future only exists if people come to see that deaths of others, countless innocents, doesn't bring justice.
Otherwise, those hundreds of thousands Iraqi people who had perished for our revenge, oops greed, didn't bring justice to us, if they exact revenge, it won't do justice for them - we must be united to save the planet not to demagogue to death.

Jadis

الثلاثاء, 21/05/2019 - 15:35

Were the Holodomor (5 millions dead) and the Gulag (10 millions citizens deported, among them 1 million died) also Western tales of democracy ? Is this not strangely similar to Hitler's nazi system ? Oh, how cool it must have been then in the blessed times of Stalin, Dzerzhinski and Beria, and all the beloved tovarishchi.... No "dead souls to cry out for revenge and justice" here ? Of course, all of them nazi bastards, like that Ossip Mandelstam bugger...

(Edit) Belomorsko-Baltiskii Kanal : 250,000 to 300,000 "zeks" died. All of them considered and treated as sheer slaves by their own governants, most of them innocent of whatever.

Олег Л.

الثلاثاء, 21/05/2019 - 16:07

А ты слышал о голоде в царской России, когда у власти были gospoda?

Jadis

الثلاثاء, 21/05/2019 - 16:17

Then why accusing only the Ukrainians ? There were more victims than tormentors.

Олег Л.

الثلاثاء, 21/05/2019 - 16:32

Украинцы -- братский народ. Знаешь древний принцип "разделяй и властвуй"? Вот это сейчас и происходит на Украине.

Ivan Luden

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 04:45

А скажите-ка, "братик", - чей Крым?

О каком "братском народе" вы здесь говорите?
Да ещё - после того, что натворили в Украине рашисты во главе со своим фюрером Путлером...
Вы издеваетесь?
https://lyricstranslate.com/ru/virgis-pup%C5%A1ys-anastasia-dmitruk-нико...

PS
Для справки - я коренной русский, с Урала, где родился, вырос и получил образование. Очень люблю свой родной язык и культуру.
Часто бываю у себя на родине и в шоке от того, что сотворила с нею организованная преступная группа "кооператив Озеро", которая нынче и разделяет, и властвует во всей Россиюшке.
Моё личное мнение:
Россия + фашизм = рашизм

Igeethecat

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 04:31

Ребята, успокойтесь насчёт политики. А откуда с Урала, Иван, если не секрет?
Я родилась в Пермской области, ну а потом поносило по свету...

Ivan Luden

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 04:39

Я родился и вырос на Южном Урале. В Перми сейчас живёт моя двоюродная сестра.

vevvev

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 04:45

Лучше "побросало" :)

Igeethecat

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 04:51

Ах, нас не так просто «побросать». Казахстан - сосед Южного Урала. Так что - вы ближе :)

vevvev

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 05:40

Да я же в смысле, что "поносило" слово неблагозвучное :) А мы же, уральцы, люди крепкие во всех отношениях :)

Igeethecat

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 05:41

Ударение правильно ставьте. Одни глупости у вас на уме... или неприятности? :D

St. Sol

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 14:22

"Очень люблю свой родной язык и культуру," [но ненавижу Россию и поддерживаю Бандеровский режим на Украине.]
Звучит странновато, вы точно русский?
(Sorry, yet again Reply button placed my response in a wrong place)

sandring

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 06:32

Quote:

Well,it's always a pleasure to see a dictator being shot down.

As long as human beings take pleasure in seeing another human being shot down (whoever they are) we won't have anything good in this world

Jadis

الأربعاء, 22/05/2019 - 14:30

Well, perhaps, but anyway I was pleased when Kadhafi was shot down, the same with Saddam Hussein, and I would be very pleased to see Al Assad shot down too. Just like I'm pleased that Eichman was hanged, and I regret very much that so many escaped their fate, often with disgusting complicities (Vatican, Peron, Bundesrepublik, Hafez el Assad - the father of Putin's darling Bashar, etc.) Oh, and Stalin, of course.

BlackSea4ever

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 16:10

Dear Vlad,
In principle, she refuses to read newspapers. -- > out of principle, she doesn't read newspapers
To all groups she is an alien -- > most everything is outside of her purview

Schnurrbrat

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 18:02

BlackSea4ever

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 18:17

Oops. Missed it. You know that it wasn't on purpose, right?

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 18:25

I'm still confused on the right way of saying "Out of principle" and "In principle". I swear they're the same thing. Also, holy crap I'm so, so sorry for this shitpost I started on politics, Government, alcohol, and oppression. The next time at any kind of social occasion I think the first thing I'll do is bring up alcohol consumption by nation and hopefully diverge the conversation into full scale politics, nationalism, socialism, the geopolitical strings breaking the political and social boundaries as-well-as the underlying motives of dictators and tyrants, who instigated the entire debacle in Eastern Europe and whatever the hell moonshine is in the first place.

BlackSea4ever

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 18:29

Common, we need to talk politics or we will be wiped off the face of earth...

I'm a foreigner so I'd defer to natives, but
In principle - means generally in concept
Out of principle - means out of conviction

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 18:30

Yeah, I get the same way too on it, just I always use them interchangeably even though I know for a fact I'm wrong on how I used it. Really bad since I'm also super picky on grammar :p (I was going to say grammar nazi but given the fact that someone brought up actual Nazis in this discussion I think I'll pass...)

BlackSea4ever

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 18:33

Lol, it's ok in your context. Are you too young for Seinfeld's soup nazi?

vevvev

الأثنين, 13/05/2019 - 18:48

"If you are not interested in politics, this does not mean that politics is not interested in you".
Pericles

IsraelWu

الثلاثاء, 14/05/2019 - 08:40

BlackSea4ever,
You're right, Israel has to have a peace with its neighbours
There are only two small problems:
First, both sides do not believe one another and Israel doesn't have the privilege to be wrong about it. Just look at the numbers in Syria, Asad's own people. Of course, to be more precise he is an Alawi, minority in his own country and he knows exactly what his fate would be if he failed.
Second, the Muslims, like many others including Israeli orthodox believers, should join as a group, not individuals, the current century . Till than their moral obligations differ from our norms. A couple of years ago I would give it a couple decades. Today, with Poland, Hungary and Austria (and even partially France, US and Russia) as examples we have much longer to wait

BlackSea4ever

الثلاثاء, 14/05/2019 - 11:52

You are correct, but how can this movement into the new century occur? In US, there are more terrorist acts committed not by Muslims, but by the “right-wing extremists” whose violence is in support of the belief that personal and/or national way of life is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent, including anti-globalism, white supremacy, nationalism, suspicion of the government, and beliefs in conspiracies.
Stunningly, even after the mass murder in the Pittsburg synagogue by the white supremacist, after Trump inviting a clearly antisemitic Orban into White House and praising him, some Jews still support him - after all, war with Iran looks promising. What we see is the global ascend into violence caused by the extreme divisions and bias based on religion, nationality, gender, etc. What we need is for people to learn it isn't in their interest to be divided. This isn't limited to Muslims, it includes Israelis. PM Ardern in New Zeland showed what kind of response should be given after the mass murder by the white supremacist in mosques. So, while Trump finds "fine people" chanting "Jews will not replace us," should a single Jew support him? Just for all the millions in tax break, mr. Adelson? [Sheldon Adelson gave $30 Million to House Republicans - he got $670 Million tax break.]
Should we be quiet when many imply there is a Zionist plan for world dominance?
Should we just close eyes and hope?
No, we must fight all prejudice, educate more people, show that there is a common cause - environment - cause for uniting everyone to save this planet instead of descending into wars invented to keep us busy noticing how they profit few.

Treugol'ny

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 05:44

I would like to throw another log on the fire. Lately I have noticed how hypocritical some countries and their leaders are. Each terrorists acts are abhorrent and unforgivable, no matter what the religious believes or the color of the skin of those who perpetrated them. What I'm seeing on TV and hear on radio once more shows to me that I'm right about the coverage of such events in media. The coverage depends on ethnic combination of population. In Australia the flags were flying half must after the New Zealand massacre. In Paris they switched off lights on Eiffel Tower and so on... After the shooting in synagogues and Sri Lanka massacre, our media didn't spent too much time of covering the events. Every human life is just as important as an another. As to Israel and Palestine problem I don't see any solution at all. One quote, though, comes to my mind. I think it was made by Israel's former prime minister Golda Meir. It goes something like this: We will have peace and only then, when Palestinian mothers will love their children more, than they hate their enemy. I'm not sure it's entirely correct, but it stuck in my memory for some unknown reason.

Jadis

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 07:07

True, in France by now they tell us about the "call of Christchurch", launched by Macron and the Prime Minister of New Zealand. Some idiot killed 49 muslims in New Zealand, but that's not the problem, the problem is that you could see the images on Facebook : this is unbearable. Kill as many muslims, or still better, Christians (only 500 in Ceylon, a simple incident), as you like, no problem, only please don't show the images, this would be shocking. What an hypocrisy. As to the shutting off the Eiffel Tower, it's turning out to a be a joke in France, there is nearly not one day when the Tower shouldn't be turned off at least for a few minutes. Why don't they keep it shut off all the time ? Would be so simpler.

Treugol'ny

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 07:17

As they were trying to shut the images on Facebook the Turkish Prime minister was showing them on his election rallyes.What a joke!

IsraelWu

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 08:31

Hansi K_Lauer,
You wrote:
“The internationally recognized borders of the state are invulnerable.”
Does it include China versus Taiwan? Nepal?
Iraq versus Kuweit?
Are there any exceptions ? What about time limits?
And you wrote:
“The population of Kosovo has changed during the centuries from a Serbian majority to a Albanian majority. That's what happens in history. No ethnic group "owns" a territory of this earth forever. We have just borrowed it for a certain time.”
How about South Africa, shouldn’t it be divided at least, in it’s time ?
What are the time frames for such changes to be accepted?
And how do you settle these two opposite statements in your mind ? Don’t they lead to paradox ?
My simple engineer’s mind works just with bivalent logic ? Do philosophers’ minds work with multivalent logic?
Explain and elaborate, please.

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 09:17

@IsraelWu
See how they did it in Czechoslovakia ...
or Germany, vice versa.
Even Yugoslavia ...
They could have agreed on a separation without a war ...
but unfortunately they didn't.

You mentioned South Africa.
South Africa occupied what is today Namibia during WWI.
In 1971, after the International Court of Justice in The Hague declared the South African administration illegal, South Africa agreed to release South West Africa into independence after an appropriate transitional period.

The people's will should count, not armies and weapons.

Schnurrbrat

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 16:55

BlackSea4ever

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:04

Ok, Texas and Hawaii...
What's the point of this? It's not like they want or can stand on their own...
With all nature events hitting both, you would think it became clear where the attention should be.

vevvev

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:07

Вот мы уже и спорим :( А ведь не хотели...

BlackSea4ever

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:14

В споре рождается истина. Only wish we argued how to fix things...

vevvev

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:23

This is such a big lump... In my opinion, the correction of this is a question of the evolution of mankind. An individual can only correct himself...

BlackSea4ever

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:36

You are unfortunately right.

Schnurrbrat

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:42

"Я, Василий Иванович, совершенно не понимаю, как это человеку, который путает Канта с Шопенгауэром, доверили командовать дивизией." Виктор Пелевин "Чапаев и Пустота", 1996. :D

vevvev

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 17:46

Однажды дзен-буддист Фёдор начал отрицать величие философии марксизма. Однако, когда его вызвали «куда надо», отрицал там свое отрицание, убедившись тем самым в справедливости закона отрицания отрицания :)

Brat

الأربعاء, 15/05/2019 - 18:23

...А другая сторона облома заключается в том, что людям свойственно такое хорошее качество, как гибкость ума, благодаря которой можно за одни и те же, по сути (если отмести все словесные нагромождения), вещи превознести до небес и расстрелять с равным КПД. На то история и личный опыт. Так что если раньше всякие межчеловеческие обломы вызывали недоумение, депресняки, обиду, шок, то теперь просто серую грусть. И прихожу я к состоянию полной боевой готовности к любому ведру помоев на голову с балкона. Ну, пришла и ладно. А вообще все эти разборки и обиды — такая хуйня, до смешного противно. Делать надо дело — для себя, для Бога, для своих, что мы идентифицируем. А зла ни на кого не держу, всё зло от непонимания, а ещё большее зло от недопонимания, так что ума надо набираться и больше духовного ума, чем логики и аналитики. Бога надо вбирать в себя. Через снег босыми ногами, а не через разные личностные пиздежи...

(С) Я. Дягилева (из письма Ю. Шестобитовой)

Как говорится по-русски,— ни убавить, ни прибавить...

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