BlackSea4ever - Against trumpism


Against trumpism

I want truth, integrity,
Caring, understanding,
Compassion, empathy -
Why should I buy into the
Cynicism, racism, nationalism,
Religiosity, pomposity, idiocy?
Why should we excuse the
Wicked, dishonest, corrupt, lazy.
Demean and denounce the
Decent, hardworking, and hopeful?
Pitting brother against brother
Jewish and Palestinian
Bosnian and Serbian
Russian and Ukrainian
Black and white
Immigrant of old and new
Man and woman
Democrat and republican
You now get away with this division.
Derision and demonization
Find fertile ground,
Appeal to the basest of the crowd
You don't care what you do to us
But for the profits you take from us.
You say one thing, but mean another
You spout lies and false achievements
You created an alternate reality
Where sister fights against sister
Over what is fact and what is lie
today, with words, and tomorrow...?
There are no movie heroes to help us
No silver bullet for your heart
No divine intervention to strike you down.
You divert eyes that should be focused,
Should stare you down, bring you to your knees,
Win the battle, win the war!
My hope, fervent hope that we will win the war!
As it should be, good shall conquer evil.
And let this be a bloodless war -
We see through you and wont allow
This evil to succeed!
BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever দ্বারা রবি, 04/11/2018 - 18:38 তারিখ সাবমিটার করা হয়
BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever সর্বশেষ সম্পাদনা করেছেন মঙ্গল, 02/04/2019 - 05:17
সাবমিটার এর মন্তব্য:

Vote 11/6/2018

ধন্যবাদ!16 বার ধন্যবাদ পেয়েছেন


JadisJadis    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 17:17

Anatolia is not YOUR land. You invaded it. They were people there long before the Turks came from deep Central Asia. There was civilization there in the times of the Ancient Greeks, long before the Turks.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 13:06

Denying genocide, Jews, Armenians, or any others, and clinging to the concept that Zionists run everything including misspelled on purpose Wikipedia don't change the fact why are you here - like others said, it's sadly to peddle propaganda and altered history. You seem to defend the indefensible. It is important to speak up against this, and even if it is boring, here at LT it has huge meaning because writers, poets, singers, comedians, artists are the first to recognize and fight for the truth.
Those few ugly attempts to resurrect racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic sentiments will be met, challenged, and stopped.

ingirumimusnocteingirumimusnocte    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 08:03

Sure, the Armenians just made it all up.

michealtmichealt    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 16:39
BlackSea4ever wrote:

I'm not aware of a political movement you labeled Zionism. I am familiar with the soulless bastards like Trump.
I was trying to understand what is it about him that appeals to anyone but top 2% of the richest people.

Are you aware of that soulless bastard Netanyahu? He's the guy who believes that destroying schools and hospitls in occupied territory is good policy, that the fact that it is occupied territory (even according to his own country's laws) is irrelevant and he can destroy what he likes and plant new population there to ensure that the territoru is never returned to its rightful owners. He's the guy who thinks its cvilized behaviour to prevent fuel and food sufficient to keep the populace alive and healthy in the small area that his nation has not yet stollen from them.
Yes, there certainly is a political movement called Zionism. It is a warped and horrible version of the original Zionism (a decent and humaitarian movement that wanted to allow the Jews to share Palestine with its modern inhabitants). It has been the political policy of most Jewish govenmnments of the last four decades. It has a lot in common with Naziism. If the milder racialist/religionist disrespect for the Palestinians displayed by earlier Israelis had not been so intolerable as to provoke warfare that part of the world might be much pleasanter and happier than it is today.

I agree that holocaust deniers are some of the sickest idiots on earth, Sadly, I have to point out that some of the racist policies of those grandchildren of the holocause victimes suggest that most Israeli politicians are just about as sickly idiotic.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 19:28

I think you need to check this thread - I'm not a fan of Netanyahu nor his policies.
Let's define your "political Zionism" as nothing to do with Zionism itself - why not give it another name as to not confuse them? Otherwise, we feed the frenzy.

If we remove common denominators, we will see the conflict for what it is:
- Israel's right to exist? Yes or no. Please. If it is no, there isn't a point for further discussion.

- educating Palestenian children to hate Israel is prevalent? Yes or no? For sure hatred is taught.
This is number one problem. No mother should feel proud her child is going to or did blow up a Jewish kindergartener or an airplane...

- do Israeli tactics justify and promote hatred? You already made it clear as Yes. And it is true.

- Arafat stole almost 100 million from his people and killed peace process. Yes? Of course.

- Israelis position is everything is self-defense. Not everything is.

The belief in the strongest, more nuclear capable Israel is a delusion once Jewish population becomes minority - who will control this arsenal? What possible good comes from the mutual annihilation?

- where are we going?
Contrary to belief that strong Israel will survive, it is simply not true.
Israel is surviving mostly because it is a boogie man, monster to scare Arab population and prevent them from assessing their dictators, correlation of their human condition against the one of their rulers.

If everyone vehemently against Israel looked at the facts of what Israel has achieved, and would be happy to share with friends, peace would be possible. What have the neighboring Arab countries achieved, what do Palestenian refugees have?

If the conflict is this house, on this street, in this town is MINE and YOURS, there cannot be a solution!
But, what if it is a two story house and each one has a floor? With elevator. Looking better, if one floor is not given to people who want to blow up the house. This is where "poor" Palestinians are failing. You don't like the Israeli policy, but how do you feel about covertly stocking and blowing up kindergarteners? Blowing up discos and busses? Sending airplanes into buildings?

So peace can be achieved if hatred is minimized. And that means both sides will have to step back, bring better leaders whose objective is peace, provide for the people, educate them against hatred, and negotiate terms equitable to all parties. MZ is right, it cannot be done, if one party wants to kill the other - there wouldn't be trust. But, trust can be built if masses see improvement in their conditions, hate can be fought if you have food and shelter, when you aren't a second class citizen.

Think it's enough so I'm signing off - till another and better day.

JadisJadis    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 07:59

Sure, you even could get a job at RT or Sputnik, those great independant Russian media. Angel smile

Radu RobertRadu Robert    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 12:30

Jesus Christ , what has this site become ...pff it goes more and more down ... Reading the comments i seen not only own oppinons but instead more likely bad words and less constructive discussions . I think idk , the big critics of poetry , should take a lil' breath and stay aside , the authoor here just posted an own oppinion more alike , and all these political discussions are so boring , honestly . @Toranaga .. you clearly seem to bend things much and go froma a thing to another one not relative to the discussion , you would make a great politician , but here your comments to me , as to the majority from what i see are irelevant .

77seestern7777seestern77    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 12:48

That's the tactic of such guys... . And always to be a victim...

77seestern7777seestern77    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 13:22

once again, now very clearly: I dont want to talk to you on a stage! In my opinien you are a troll. And you know exactly what you do.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 13:34

I'm American. I'm offended by Trump's position as a president. It's tough to agree he was legally elected - too much help from Russians. I wrote this poem and you are on my page?.. I do want the discussion, I want the attention to the man YOU defended because he is reprehensible in every aspect. He has no convictions, no compassion, no intelligence, no charisma and yet so many believe his every word. I can't believe that so few feel compassion and outrage for the children torn from parents on the southern border, so few understand or care for the environmental damage his administration allows, so few understood who his tax reform benefited.

So, to have a future, we will need to convince almost everyone who commented here (it's a start) of something:
whites aren't better than blacks, Browns, reds, and yellows
Zionists don't run the world,
homosexuals are not a threat to heterosexuals,
Trumpism is evil
Hate is hate whether from Arabs or Jews - can't build future on hate
Swastica is a symbol of nazis
Rule by Turkey isn't a realistic nor a desirable outcome

Dora VysotskayaDora Vysotskaya    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:10

Jesus Christ!!! Why are there some inappropriate comments??? Just because a user wrote his own poem??? Talking about genocides??? In the XXI??? Do you want to hear the history of my my maternal grandparents? Ok they are from Crimea. They born in Bajchisarái where was located the khan's residence, the Giray dinasty who served the Otoman Empire. it was the capital of the Crimean Khanate and the center of political and cultural life of the Crimean Tatar people. After several wars with Russia from 1737 when Burkhard Christoph von Münnich burnt down the capital of the Khanate and the annexation of the Crimean Khanate by the Russian Empire in 1783. All Crimeans lived in peace until 1944 when Stalin as a form of collective punishment alleged collaboration with the Nazi occupation regime during 1942–1943. That's fake!!! My family isn't Nazi!! We hate those symbols. My grandfather and his family life changed when in 18th of May in 1944 soldiers knocked on his family's door. They gave the family only 15 minutes to collect their belongings. They couldn’t collect the most valuable things because the room where all the most expensive stuff had been held was occupied by a Soviet officer.

Then there was a long road to Central Asia, with freezing winter and a lot of deaths of Crimean Tatars: starvation, thirst and cold. After in 1954, Crimean Tatars were allowed to move through the USSR. My family settled in Belarus where my mother and my father, may they rest in peace, met and fell in love. Unfortunately, they died of Chernobyl radiation and I suffered and still suffer the consequences. Stalin was a dictator what can you expect from a dictator? Harmony?? A lot of Russians suffered during his regim like Romanians, Germans did. Nowadays Belarusians do. I do not value people because of their color, I value them for their intelligence. I do not hate Russian or Ukrainian government for trying to hide the tragedy of Chernobyl or hate the Russians for deporting my grandfather. This is past !!! We must live the present to build the future. I read that it would be weird to see a white president in Zimbabwe, Israel or Saudi Arabia and why not ??? A president has to be choosen for his ideas and not for his skin. Let's leave behind the past where there was a lot of hatred and let's build a future where Russians and Ukrainians respect each other, Israel and Palestinians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis... Without no symbols or words of hatred.

roster 31roster 31    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 13:19

Am I participating in the wrong site?
I thought we were trying to be poetic.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 13:37

Poets don't ignore horrific wrongs. Why write poetry, translate it if not to further human understanding or fight outright horrors?

roster 31roster 31    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 14:26
BlackSea4ever wrote:

Poets don't ignore horrific wrongs. Why write poetry, translate it if not to further human understanding or fight outright horrors?

That may be right, but I didn't sign up to discuss politics.

(My previous comment was for the comments, not for the poem.)

michealtmichealt    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 16:50

Rosa, I'm afraid this argument has set me off into political issues too. But for me the problem is that the discussion is about opposition between two rather vile points of view, so I've joined in to take a shoot at the idiots who claim that because there was a holocaust anything, no matter how visious and criminal, done by the grandchildren of some of its victims is absolutely excusable, even when it's just about as disgracefully inhumane as was Naziism. That certinly isn't poetic, so maybe I'm contributing to something you see as making this a "wrong site". If so, thta worries me - I don't want to make people like you dislike this site.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 16:51

I'd rather talk it thru. But, I'm sorry I didn't get your point - can you please explain

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 17:40

Maybe in your culture, it is true to hide under one's tongue. I hide nothing.
I want Israel to exist.
I want peace with Arabs.
I want Palestinian children to swim in sea not stay behind a wall.
I want to prove Michael Z wrong that it's impossible to negotiate with Arabs as it was with nazis.
I have no desire for any one group to have power over people - not trump, not any dictator like MLS, not Assad, not "Zionists" whoever you mean, not soulless corporations.

I made it clear for what I stand - I didn't quite get your position. And please be mindful how the argument started - trump's policy of separating children from parents - to me, those children don't need to be zionist's children - I would not tolerate if yours were taken regardless whether we agree on anything.
But, how do you feel about mine? About Mexican? Guatemalan? Jewish?
Do you feel a woman should be stoned, killed for adultery? Why then an adulterous trump is ok?
Do you feel all infidels should be killed? Do you feel Christian God will take only Christians to heaven?

Michael ZeigerMichael Zeiger    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 17:50
BlackSea4ever wrote:

I want to prove Michael Z wrong that it's impossible to negotiate with Arabs as it was with nazis.

- Please prove it??

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:03

Michael, I want to. I'm just describing my position.
Btw, that woman managed in 30 minutes to cover such a wealth of subjects and string conclusions that are phenomenal, if incorrect. I think you and would need to SKYPE as I have no ability to break her text and respond to it point by point.
I am certain you liked her point on leftists - absurd (if it was those folk poems, and likeyou wanted me to be harsher, then I'd say херня или хуйня)

IgeethecatIgeethecat    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:12

Хрен знает, что творится, но Деана сказала 2 «Х» слова в одной фразе 😛😵

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:19

Do me flavor. Lol listen to the link MZ gave and tell me I'm wrong, regardless of our views, that woman managed to cover in 30 minutes east/west cultures, Knights fighting for damsels, forts and castles, me2 movement, judge Kavanaugh, and more. If it wasn't for the cat, I'd have a breakdown.

IgeethecatIgeethecat    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:36

I have no idea which link you are talking about. I might have time tonight to watch it, but I apologize if I’ve upset you with my cute innocent joke 🥺 Regular smile

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:47

Not upset at all! You are cute! And I wish I could talk about your trip.
I don't like just to talk to people who agree with me. I respect other people's opinions. What truly upsets me is when we close our eyes and minds letting those indoctrinating hatred win.

roster 31roster 31    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:14
Qardelen wrote:

What about those Palestines kicked out of their lands?. Should they also have a right to return to tgeir motherlands?. Or, would it be to much to ask?

What is this?
Why to be a member of LT if you prefer politics to music or lyrics?

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:23

Darling, NOTHING Trump does is for the security of Israel. So this is just stupid. He spews lies daily, in unprecedented numbers. In his world unless you are Nordic white, you are a sub-human. Once more, what does Israel have to do with the fascist behavior towards people on US southern border?

roster 31roster 31    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 17:45
michealt wrote:

Rosa, I'm afraid this argument has set me off into political issues too. But for me the problem is that the discussion is about opposition between two rather vile points of view, so I've joined in to take a shoot at the idiots who claim that because there was a holocaust anything, no matter how visious and criminal, done by the grandchildren of some of its victims is absolutely excusable, even when it's just about as disgracefully inhumane as was Naziism. That certinly isn't poetic, so maybe I'm contributing to something you see as making this a "wrong site". If so, thta worries me - I don't want to make people like you dislike this site.

I don't blame you but, I think this has gone too far, and I don't think this is the place for this type on comments, but for the literary quality of the poem.
Actually, it's the translation what we are here to discuss.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 17:55

I love your translations. I love nice quiet songs we all agree on. But if we don't stop extremism, racism, and hatred that is increasingly posted here, then we stand silent and let trump to be raised to the "eternal leader" as Toranga wrote.
I can't in good conscience allow that. Neither can I take it on a chin from Michael thinking me a stupid leftist.
So, if it is truly too far for you - does it mean all these faceless children are irrelevant because they aren't white - this is too far for me.

JadisJadis    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 17:22

But we are poetic. Read what the famous Greek poet Homer wrote in the Iliad : nothing but battles, rapts, murders, and all kind of vileny. The same in the Russian bylinas (and the same in the Bible, BTW). This is called Epic poetry, or Heroic poetry. Regular smile

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 18:40

Look how many people that I respect liked your sentiment in that we are trying to be poetic. It is true.
However, in view that poetic license recently included songs and translations full of nazi support, inciting violence against Jews, homophobic insults, racial slurs, Slav's greatness, and more - my answer is that this is the right site to rebuff this vile trend. And it was international conclusion that Trump's rhetoric is aiding these individuals.

And I'd much rather read MZ's poetical translations than argue over how futile is my point of view.

Ove ErikssonOve Eriksson    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 15:24

"If we could learn to look instead of gawking,
We'd see the horror in the heart of farce,
If only we could act instead of talking,
We wouldn't always end up on our arse.
This was the thing that nearly had us mastered;
Don't yet rejoice in his defeat, you men!
Although the world stood up and stopped the bastard,
The bitch that bore him is in heat again."

Bertolt Brecht, The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui

Alma BarrocaAlma Barroca    রবি, 24/03/2019 - 19:51

This other discussion also went way too far - so I'll disable comments here as well.

Thanks to all of you for your comprehension.