[SOLVED] Mess on the OST pages

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Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020
Pending moderation

Is the [@LT] administration going to sort out the mess that is happening on the OST pages? No one will find the original song among a bunch of versions (official translations) from all languages.

For example - https://lyricstranslate.com/ru/aladdin-ost-2019-lyrics.html

My opinion, you need to separate the original soundtrack from all versions. You need to translate all versions into translations of the original. Well, or come up with some other system that would make it clear where the version is and where the original is. Now both translations and the original are piled up in one pile, which is difficult to understand.

With best wishes from Waran4ik.

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

you need to separate the original soundtrack from all versions

You mean by having a different artist page for each language? That would just move the mess somewhere else, plus all the different adaptations wouldn't be on the same page anymore and they might be difficult to find.

Waran4ik ha scritto:

You need to translate all versions into translations of the original.

That's not a great idea. It wouldn't allow people to make translations of the adapted version into other languages.

I can think of two solutions to this issue:
- Make a collection for the original songs of the soundtrack (and that wouldn't even require changes to the LT website);
- Make it easier to search for songs in a specific language on an artist's page. This could be achieved by changing the link to the Advanced Search (screenshot) so that it points to the songs advanced search rather than to the translations one. This way you could click that, then select a language and you'll find all the songs in that language. It would be even better to integrate that search on the artist page itself.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020
altermetax ha scritto:

You mean by having a different artist page for each language?

No, I think it would be ideal if the OST page was like this:

OST (original version)
+
English version (link)
French version (link)
Russian version (link)
And so on.

In general, I do not see the point of making a translation into the original language. This is nonsense.

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017

I don't understand what you mean with that list. Do you think the OST should be one page, while the other versions should be other pages linked to that page?

Waran4ik ha scritto:

In general, I do not see the point of making a translation into the original language. This is nonsense.

Why? Adapted versions are not translations, they are almost always different from the original because they have to fit into the original meter, they have to rhyme and they have to be lip-synced. A literal translation doesn't do any of that (at least most of the time). Some people like to see how a specific song has been adapted into other languages, so a translation back into the original language makes sense.
I have already discussed this with you under the Frozen 2 (OST) page a year ago (or at least with your previous profile).

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020
altermetax ha scritto:

I don't understand what you mean with that list. Do you think the OST should be one page, while the other versions should be other pages linked to that page?

Yes. As an option.

Yes, we discussed it. Adapted versions are the translation that should be sung. That is equirhythmic translation. Of course, this translation is not literal, but it is a translation of the original.

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

Yes, we discussed it. Adapted versions are the translation that should be sung. That is equirhythmic translation. Of course, this translation is not literal, but it is a translation of the original.

Right. So how do you not see the point of back-translation?

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020
altermetax ha scritto:

Right. So how do you not see the point of back-translation?

Since nothing can be better than the original. The original is already there, so why translate something into the original language? Someone will want to translate this translation into another language and so on indefinitely. Why do this?

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

Since nothing can be better than the original.

That isn't true at all. And even in that case, one could want to see how bad something has been adapted.

Waran4ik ha scritto:

Someone will want to translate this translation into another language and so on indefinitely.

No, because the translation of the adaptation is not going to be another adaptation, it's going to be a literal translation. That is an example of what would make no sense to be retranslated.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

How poorly adapted is it? This is an official translation. How can it be considered bad?

Well, someone may want to do equirhythmic translation in the original language. There may be such masochists.

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

How poorly adapted is it? This is an official translation. How can it be considered bad?

You literally just said that nothing is better than the original. That means that everything is equal to the original or worse. If what you said were actually true, someone might want to see where the adaptation would fit in their scale of Original to Garbage (hence "how bad it is" or alternatively "how good it is", which would mean the same in this context).

Waran4ik ha scritto:

Well, someone may want to do equirhythmic translation in the original language.

An equirhythmic translation of an adaptation is also an equirhythmic translation of the original, though. And it could indeed be published as a song on this site. The artist "Non/Disney Fandubs" is exactly for that.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

Although I agree, the official translation may be bad. I've come across this many times.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

In general, I had a question about the topic. Why make a mess on the OST page from different versions of translations? I would like the versions to be separated from the original and ordered by language. I think it would be convenient for everyone who visited the OST page. Think about how to improve the OST page.

Editor True-to-original translations.
<a href="/en/translator/michaelna" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1257575">MichaelNa</a>
Joined: 29.08.2015
Waran4ik ha scritto:

Is the [@LT] administration going to sort out the mess that is happening on the OST pages? No one will find the original song among a bunch of versions (official translations) from all languages.

For example - https://lyricstranslate.com/ru/aladdin-ost-2019-lyrics.html

My opinion, you need to separate the original soundtrack from all versions. You need to translate all versions into translations of the original. Well, or come up with some other system that would make it clear where the version is and where the original is. Now both translations and the original are piled up in one pile, which is difficult to understand.

With best wishes from Waran4ik.

If you click on “Language” (located immediately above the “Translations” and “Requests” column labels) on the page you gave as an example you’ll find all the original songs alphabetically sorted in the “English” section then, if you are looking for the adaptation in another language, simply go the section for the language you want.

Editor in search of Anningan & Malina
<a href="/en/translator/darkjoshua" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1112972">DarkJoshua</a>
Joined: 10.05.2012
Waran4ik ha scritto:

Although I agree, the official translation may be bad. I've come across this many times.

We are not here to judge how good or bad a foreign adaptation of a soundtrack is though. What's the point of it anyway?

Foreign versions of a soundtrack are official songs and as such I see no reason why they can't be translated. I really struggle to understand your point. It seems like you think that only the original should be taken in consideration which makes no sense.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

If you want to, you can and should translate texts, but I don't understand why someone should translate versions into the original language if there is already an original. To make sure that the original and the versions are different? This is clear without translation.

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

If you want to, you can and should translate texts, but I don't understand why someone should translate versions into the original language if there is already an original. To make sure that the original and the versions are different? This is clear without translation.

It's not clear what the adapted lyrics mean if you don't understand that language.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

>>>If you click on “Language” (located immediately above the “Translations” and “Requests” column labels) on the page you gave as an example you’ll find all the original songs alphabetically sorted in the “English” section then, if you are looking for the adaptation in another language, simply go the section for the language you want.

And if someone doesn't know what language the original is in, how do I find it?

Editor True-to-original translations.
<a href="/en/translator/michaelna" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1257575">MichaelNa</a>
Joined: 29.08.2015
Waran4ik ha scritto:

>>>If you click on “Language” (located immediately above the “Translations” and “Requests” column labels) on the page you gave as an example you’ll find all the original songs alphabetically sorted in the “English” section then, if you are looking for the adaptation in another language, simply go the section for the language you want.

And if someone doesn't know what language the original is in, how do I find it?

If you give a specific example perhaps I can provide an answer, but for “Aladdin” the “Country: United States” should answer your question or its “Official site: https://movies.disney.com/aladdin-2019” or “Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_(2019_f....”

Editor in search of Anningan & Malina
<a href="/en/translator/darkjoshua" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1112972">DarkJoshua</a>
Joined: 10.05.2012
Waran4ik ha scritto:

I don't understand why someone should translate versions into the original language if there is already an original.

Because the lyrics are different. Most of the times, they keep the general meaning (obviously, otherwise the film wouldn't make sense), but the whole imagery is different and sometimes metaphors can change for cultural reasons. Yes, the meaning is the same, but at the end of the day an adaptation provides also a different point of view.
It's just like when artists make a cover of a foreign song, they have to rewrite the words from scratch.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

MichaelNa, so you want the site guest to go to Wikipedia first, find out what language the original is written in, and then go to search for the original language on LT?

Editor True-to-original translations.
<a href="/en/translator/michaelna" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1257575">MichaelNa</a>
Joined: 29.08.2015
Waran4ik ha scritto:

MichaelNa, so you want the site guest to go to Wikipedia first, find out what language the original is written in, and then go to search for the original language on LT?

Not really, that was the third option, the country is the logical choice.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

MichaelNa, a country has nothing to do with it. If someone translates, then from the original language, to compare how the version differs from the original.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

However, I pointed out the problem. If you want it to be clear where the original is and where the versions are, then you need to highlight the original. If you don't want to, you don't want to. I expressed my opinion.

Editor True-to-original translations.
<a href="/en/translator/michaelna" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1257575">MichaelNa</a>
Joined: 29.08.2015
Waran4ik ha scritto:

MichaelNa, a country has nothing to do with it. If someone translates, then from the original language, to compare how the version differs from the original.

I thought that your question was to establish the language of the original OST!
The country for Aladdin is United States so the original language is English.
Using the song “Arabian Nights” as an example, in the Italian version of the OST it became “Notti d'Oriente” (Oriental Nights). That is not a translation, it is now a new original and as such it deserves to be translated in any other language including in English. If you want to compare the differences between the two open these two browser pages and place them side by side, you’ll see that they’re the same but different:
https://lyricstranslate.com/ru/aladdin-ost-2019-arabian-nights-lyrics.html
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/notti-doriente-arabian-nights-oriental-ni...

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

I don't need to open anything, I already know that the versions are different from the original. The question was how to find out on LT whether it was the original or the version. But it turns out that you can't find out without Wikipedia. Understood.

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

The question was how to find out on LT whether it was the original or the version. But it turns out that you can't find out without Wikipedia.

If you have a song and want to know whether it is the original, look at the title. The original version has a simple title (like “Arabian Nights”). The adapted versions either have a title like “Notti d'Oriente [Arabian Nights]” or “Arabian Nights (Italian)”.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

altermetax, do you really think that many people will guess this way to distinguish the original from a version? Was it a joke?

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

altermetax, do you really think that many people will guess this way to distinguish the original from a version? Was it a joke?

No, it wasn't a joke. It's just another way to know it among the others you have been told about.
Also, you're completely missing the fact that guests mostly enter this site through a search engine. In that case they entered a song name and they already know what the original language is.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

Many people go to the movie page to try to find the right song. And what do they see? Lots of versions of songs in different languages. Don't make idiots out of people. You really need to do something about that mess with a bunch of versions in one place.

Super Member
<a href="/en/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Joined: 19.07.2018

Have you ever heard of an expression “you get more bees with honey than vinegar?”
You went past vinegar to acid, Andrew...

Editor
<a href="/en/translator/altermetax" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1360194">altermetax</a>
Joined: 04.11.2017
Waran4ik ha scritto:

Don't make idiots out of people.

That sounds like what you are doing, though. When they go to the movie page and search for the song, they'll be presented with a list of that song in several languages. They'll find the one in the language they're looking for and click it.
If the second suggestion I made in my first comment on this thread gets implemented, that will be even easier.

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik</a>
Joined: 22.10.2020

I have voiced the problem, and you are trying to prove to me that there is no problem. If there is no problem, then there is nothing more to discuss. Let the mess continue on the OST pages. I won't discuss it any more.

Moderator and earthbound misfit
<a href="/en/translator/icey" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1172336">Icey</a>
Joined: 05.04.2013

You have already voiced your opinion on the subject multiple times in the past, and you were always answered that no, there's no problem at all. Pages used to be divided in the past per language, but the result was much messier, that's why we opted for one page for all versions. As you don't seem willing to change your opinion, and things will not change, because, as I said, there's no problem with OST pages, I'll mark this discussion as "solved".

Senior Member
<a href="/en/translator/jordanyt" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1442908">JordanYT</a>
Joined: 05.01.2020

I know that Icey just closed the topic but since the comments are still activated I'll leave my opinion

I know that a few people i saw in the site that this is a huge mess on the OST pages but the staff already said that this was never done in the site

In some OST pages there are songs that are in different languages and people are saying that we should separate them in separate pages of it
Like *Film Name* (OST) (Original version), *Film Name* (OST) (French version), Film Name* (OST) (German version), Film Name* (OST) (Spanish version), Film Name* (OST) (Italian version) and the list goes on.........

But not all the songs are soundtracks, for example the Frozen 2 OST has 49 dubbings in total and Disney only released the soundtrack for 24 of the official dubbings while the rest is just Movie Versions so it wouldn't be an OST Page

My point here is that there's no mess, no problem in adding all songs in all their languages in just a sole page because it can look like is a *Film Name* (OST) (The Complete Set) with all languages that everyone here can find in their languages, and of course if is a problem to find your song in your language just use the search button - > Type the song name and Boom you found your song!

Have a wonderful night everyone 💙

Russian asset
<a href="/en/translator/schnurrbrat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1414669">Schnurrbrat</a>
Joined: 07.03.2019

Any OST folder is treated basically as an Artist's folder.
So, there is always a possibility to organize all songs by language.

Problem solved. With one click.