poshspice92 on Sat, 03/04/2021 - 18:09
| Thanks! ❤ |  |  |
poshspice92 on Sat, 03/04/2021 - 18:38| 1. | מיליון דולר (Million Dollar) |
| 2. | פאוץ' (Pouch) |
| 3. | אם אתה גבר (Im Ata Gever) |
Dr_Igor
Sat, 03/04/2021 - 18:56
Hey poshspice92,
I had a discussion with another transliterator from Hebrew the other day and we agreed that neither "ח" nor "כ" should be transliterated as "ch"
for obvious reasons. It should probably be "kh" unless it's a "כ" sounding like "k".
I will also have a couple of suggestions for your previous translation...
Dr_Igor
Wed, 07/04/2021 - 12:13
Just a couple of days ago I was listening to a podcast of two extremely intelligent even brilliant Jewish Americans - a couple. ( actually, he is Jewish, but she is not). And one of the listeners used the comments to send them a nice message חג פסח שמח transliterated in English letters.
Embarrassingly neither of them recognized it, so they just read as is. It sounded very funny to those who understand. My main point is that
apparently all the "ח"'s were transliterated as "ch" so they read them as a normal English speaker would pronounce "ch". That made it
super funny.
[@OgingerO] ,[@david_kotler], [@AdelaideArt] , [@IsraelWu] , [@Moshe Kaye] - inviting all enthusiasts of Hebrew I know.
Dr_Igor
Wed, 07/04/2021 - 22:55
I think the "naturalness" of "ch" in "chanuka",etc is pure tradition and its origin is in Poilsh connection. Whoever does transliteration
here especially at a request should be aware that the vast majority of the world's population would pronounce "ch" differently from that tradition.
So the transliterator should either pointedly comment about the "special" pronunciation of "ch" or switch to "unnatural" but unambiguous "kh".
I am not sure what people who request transliterations do with them, but they sure want to pronounce them correctly.
poshspice92
Sat, 10/04/2021 - 19:59
My reasoning for transliterating with "ch" and "kh" is mainly because of the fact that they're spelled with two different letters (regardless of the fact that in Modern Hebrew they're prononced the same). But, I do agree that the "ch" spelling in particular can be misleading to many, so I'll make sure to add a note in my future transliterations that "ch" is to be pronounced as in Bach or loch.
Moshe Kaye
Tue, 06/04/2021 - 20:01
If i have too, and i try not too, i usually just write "h"... or "ch" like in Bach.
IsraelWu
Thu, 08/04/2021 - 16:34
Well, then you would get this transliteration "Jolera jasna" for originally Polish"Cholera jasna", used by Poles at every step.
Do you think a Pole would recognize it. Seeing it I would probably stop swearing or swear thrice as much. Personally I think it should be transliterated something like "Kholera yasna"
IsraelWu
Tue, 06/04/2021 - 20:28
Well, this is probably why I don't like transliterations. I know they have to exist (for now) but to say "transliteration" is only half or less of the definition. You have to know for whom and who is doing the work. Transliteration of "ח" or "כ" as 'ch' would be perfectly normal for Polish speakers. This combination is a hard "H" , while "ה" is a soft "H" (like in holy). But you would transliterate "חרטום" as Khartoum for English speakers while for Polish speakers it's Chartum . Reading maps in various languages can teach you a bit about "correct" transliterations as the cartographers have very strict rules for transliterations (each for their own languages). I don't mean the difference between the names of various cities or rivers in different languages, like Italian Roma vs. English Rome vs. Polish Rzym - transliterations proper.
In Russian you have your hard "KH" but I think you pronounce the soft "H" as "G".
In short, how can you transliterate if you don't know for whom you are doing it or read a transliteration without knowing the rules applied.
Dr_Igor
Tue, 06/04/2021 - 20:38
>In Russian you have your hard "KH" but I think you pronounce the soft "H" as "G".
That's a "dialect" close to Ukrainian but the letter there is the analog of G - "Г" not of H - "Х"
Good point about Polish - it slipped my mind and overall - about "targeted" transliterations - makes a lot of sense.
IsraelWu
Tue, 06/04/2021 - 21:05
I know about G and the "Ukrainian connection" but they do "transliteration" automatically, the best/worst example that comes first to my mind is "Gitler". And is it a coincidence that 'Hero' and "Geroy" sound so similarly, perhaps Viking connection, do you know?
OgingerO
This is NOT an original Noa Kirel song, just a cover. The original is done by Shoshana Damari.