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[SOLVED] Qur'an

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Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

Christian songs and Hymns are nothing but passages from the Bible (the founding text of Christianity) composed into songs to be sung in chorus. You will see many chunks from the New Testaments (the founding text of Christianity) are sung in the Christian religious songs and Hymns. The reason they include non-biblical words or passages in some of them is that the New Testament, (unlike the Quran) isn't all that poetic to be made a song out of. If the New Testament was to be a book written in a poetic style to be sung like that of the Quran then the Christians would just sing it through like the Muslims do their book. Many of the prayer songs in the Quran aren't less well known or more controversial than those of the ones from the Bible. As soon as the Quran, Muslims, Islam is mentioned the words such as ''trouble, controversiality, fight e.t.c.'' starts to fly in the air. There is definitely double-standards here. Quran is a book made of sets of poems to be sung. And, it is sung beautifully by many millions of people throughout the world for over millennia. So it fills in all the criteria to be allowed to be in the religious songs/ prayers/poems section. I have said what I had to say. I don't have time to argue with you prejudices any longer.

Super Member
Joined: 19.10.2015

@T C Nazli Volkan - I don't think you're understanding that the only reason why the Christian prayers are included on the site is because they are covered as songs. There are songs which use Biblical text as lyrics. There aren't any religious texts on this site, unless they're parts of lyrics of a song.

Just the fact that the Qur'anic text rhymes doesn't make it neither a poem nor a song. You are repeatedly confusing singing and reciting, and I got tired of correcting you. The Qur'an is not sung.

You are bringing up Islamophobia, although nobody was Islamophobic in this thread. It is a fact that Politics and Religion are highly controversial topics, and I would also agree that we shouldn't do such things.

The user @ingirumimusnocte had summed it up really well, and I agree absolutely.

Although my entire account is dedicated just for religious lyrics, I think that the purpose of this website is perfectly clear - POEMS and SONGS.

The religious text on its own doesn't belong to the either category, so I don't understand why are we even having this conversation.

Super Member
Joined: 19.10.2015

Besides that, I believe that by uploading the Qur'an on this site, you'd upset both Muslims and Non-Muslims.

Muslims would be upset because doing so would be an Insult to the Qur'an and Islam.

While, the non-Muslims would be upset because they most likely wouldn't want to bring religious texts here.

While, both non-Muslims and Muslims would agree that it simply doesn't belong here.

I think you're the only one who thinks this way.

Super Member
Joined: 19.07.2018

I had to re-read the entire thread to have comprehended that the idea was to upload the entire Qur'an - this does not fit with the site's purpose. And the arguments over each translation would be expected to exceed the original text many times over. I agree with the posts that provided already translated links as an appropriate place to use.

Editor
Joined: 18.10.2015

You don't see the whole matter from the right angle, I'm afraid. Everything that is published here is meant to be translated. I, for one, think that the Quran is a fine piece of poetry and can be sung, recited or chanted. The problem is who will come and translate it? According to the site rules, any user has the right to translate anything. Even if they have a poor knowledge of Arabic. If the translation is complete and not Google translated it will stay. And what will you do then? Scream and shout that such a translation is an insult to the Quran or is profanity or blasphemy? You won't be able to do anything. However bad the translation will be it will stay. Do you want this for the Quran? Does this great book deserve it?

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

Why should adding Qur'an on religious prayers section should upset any Muslims? The whole of the Bible is being sung through under the name of religious songs here. The Quran is no different. It is also being read out with special singing. In Arabia, you might call singing the Quran differently but anyone, anywhere in the world who listens the Quran being read out with its special melody would call it singing. So, the verses in the Quran are beautiful poems composed to be read out with a beautiful melody. Of course, they are mostly prayers and mostly (which one might call) ''advise literature for the populace,'' but, this doesn't change the fact that it is made of poems/songs after all. It is no different than any other religious prayer songs that are on the site. If the Muslims are not getting upset with songs such as ''Jesus The Son of God!'' that are on this site then those from the other religions shouldn't be upset with literature claiming Muhammad to be a prophet. The religious prayers section is a very suitable place for the Quran verses along with its singing videos to be placed.

Super Member
Joined: 19.10.2015

I do not want to continue this conversation. I think that the matter is clear. The Qur'an shouldn't be uploaded to this site. Everybody so far agreed with it, except for you.

How can we end this? Do you want a poll and people to vote? I don't think it's necessary, though, since everybody had already expressed their opinion.

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

One can bring in translations from official sources. Others who are well versed in Arabic literature can do their translations along with their explanations as to why they translate a certain word or a certain phrase e.t.c. I don't think those with poor Classic Arabic skills will dare to venture on translating the Quran. The translating of the Quran verses until this age has been the job of the governing elite in Muslim countries. Not many translators were able to translate the Quran in a way the Kings-Padishahs-Sultans-Sheyhs didn't like. So the translations and explanations of the verses in the Quran were made under the supervision of the governments and they are mostly biased. Here, we have a free bit of space for those well-versed in the Arabic literature to come forth and provide us with translations that are free from political bias. Taking away the authority of translating the Quran from the hands of the Kings-Sheiks-Presidents and giving it to the free minded well-versed people would be a good service not only for Muslims but for the rest of the world as well. There is a voting system here so, people would know when there is a poor or incorrect translation. There is also a comment box where the translator can explain and be asked questions as to why a certain phrase or a certain sentence was translated in a way that doesn't match the official translated versions. Religion is a big business. The Saudis are spending billions of dollars every year in order to manipulate the Quran the way they like. Providing a page to challenge those is a necessity for a peaceful future of the world.

Editor Slim Shady
Joined: 05.11.2014

Why is that so important to you to bring religious texts in a site dedicated to songs when there are tons of site dedicated for this?

Super Member
Joined: 19.10.2015

I just want this to end, so let's just vote in here:

I am voting NO, so:

Should the Qur'an be uploaded to this site?
YES -
NO - 1

(pardon, I misstyped the first time I wrote)

Editor Slim Shady
Joined: 05.11.2014

No for me.

YES -
NO - 2

Anyway, it doesn't really matter cause it's not allowed.

Editor .
Joined: 09.10.2018

The main point of LT is translating. The original Qur'an is not the issue there, rather the translations that would be produced.

Formally the book is unique and inalterable. Allow me to say it doesn't change the fact that no two human beings can understand its contents the exact same way. Translation is mereley a revelator of that fact. No two translations are equivalent.

Assuming you bring the book to the site, it will end up being split into chunks of various sizes that any man and his dog will be allowed to translate however he likes, as long as GT does not show through too obviously.

Among volunteers to translate the book, you will very likely find some "rocket scientists" who can hardly blabber two words of Arabic and/or the target language, might be prejudiced in every concievable way, lack the minimal knowledge of Islamic culture required to make any kind of sense of the scriptures, or maybe zealots of whatever specific branch of Islam copying swathes of their True and Only Translation of the Word of God, etc.

Even if some miracle prevented religion wars from setting the site ablaze, the book would be defaced by the sheer awkwardness of countless wannabe translators.

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

My sir, since you've asked then let me explain how important it is. As it was mentioned in the form earlier, there are millions of bilingual conquered peoples and refugees living in countries other than their own. They mostly can't speak their own languages or their adopted languages perfectly. And there are also many languages fast disappearing off of the face of the world nowadays. There aren't many sources to learn some of the languages that are at the brink of death!. So, having a full text of a familiar book as a base along with its translations in those dying languages would provide those who'd like to learn them languages with a priceless source. For, it is a book familiar to many people and they can compare its translations with the languages they are learning which would help their learning a lot. And, it would also help those unfortunate bilingual people to learn their mother-tongues and improve their adopted languages as well. So, the benefits of having a well-known book such as the Quran or the Bible are plenty. I have brought in the translation of the Quran in Uyghur Language and started to translate it into Turkish to provide a piece of literature which would help the Uyghur people and the Turkish people who are learning each-others languages. But, it was taken off the site for being religious content. The only reason I've chosen the Quran to be the base lyrics is that it is a book well known to these peoples. We should not only bring in the Quran but also other well-known texts such as the Bible with its many translations to provide those learning these dying languages with literature materials. These religious texts are a very precious source in language learning for they have already been translated into countless languages. You might say that the written translations are out there already but, they are mostly written in different orthographies and don't have the videos of its textual recitation which we provide here. This site is mostly visited by those who like to learn languages. So why take away from them these precious materials which can help them with their language learning?

Editor
Joined: 18.10.2015
T.C. Nazli Volkan wrote:

These religious texts are a very precious source in language learning for they have already been translated into countless languages.

And what do you want from us then if the Quran has been translated all over? We're not publishers. I'm afraid you've dialled the wrong number, sir

Editor .
Joined: 09.10.2018

I'm sorry to say LT is probably not the best place on Earth to preserve the purity of any language. It's a great place for language enthusiasts to practice their skills, but 99% of its contents is literal or semi-literal translations of relatively simple texts, mixed with a considerable amount of plain gibberish. That's not what I would call reference material for linguists.

Imagining useful translations of any kind of book would emerge from the contributions of random internet users with wildly variable language skills, working on tiny chunks of text with no coordination whatsoever, is nothing but a pipe dream.

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

I want to be able to publish the Quran's translated versions in some of dying languages there are. Languages such as Uygur, Sakha, Manchu, Nogai, Chuvash, Altai, and Tuvan along with their transliterations and translations in order to provide sources for those learning these dying languages. So there would be Latin transcribed texts of the translations into them languages along with a video clip of the translations being read out by the native speaker of them languages. Anyone who would visit the page would find the translated text in Latin Alphabet the video where the original text is read out and its translations in many languages(obtained from official sources). It would be an invaluable material for those learning these dying languages. As I said earlier I had brought in the videos where some native Uyghur person was reading out the translation of the Quran in Uyghur language and I transcribed the Uyghur language into Latin script, also added Turkish translation of the Uyghur text. I've spent many weeks working on this only to be taken off the site without even receiving a warning beforehand. What better source is out there to learn these dying languages?. Why shouldn't this be allowed?

Editor Slim Shady
Joined: 05.11.2014

This is not answering my question of why it should be on a site dedicated to songs when there are tons of site dedicated for this.
And now I'd really like to know the connection between refugees and a site dedicated to songs. If your translation been taken off the site, then you should know by now that religious content is not allowed, especially since you're there since 2016. If peoples want to learn a language here, then they have more than 775,000 music translations at their disposal. Why shouldn't this be allowed ? Cause, once again, this is a translation site for MUSIC.

Editor .
Joined: 09.10.2018

Because it's not what LT is for.

As soon as you put any piece of text here, any user is free to add a translation in any language. So your Uygur translation might be followed by an English one, which might be a total mess, or some copy of some specific translation that might anger some other guy who will claim the translation betrays the true meaning and provide his "proper" version.

At that point some bystander might decide to drop a little comment, siding with one of the guys, which will spark a slightly warmer response of yet another passer-by. Pressure will slowly build up. When the temperature becames comfortable for them, trolls of all kinds will appear on the scene and have their fun.

Red lights will start flashing in the control room and moderators will try to open release valves, but the core might already have started to melt and release of irradiated material into the surroundings might be the last chance to avoid containment failure.

See my point?

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

I've been here since 2011 to be precise. I have made my case for the Quran to be a poetic book. No one could argue with that and instead I am being preached about the dangers of having religious stuff on the site while there are tons of religious materials published all over this site. I would never set on foot or spend another minute of my precious time where there is discrimination at a great level in between cultures. I wish you guys all the best.

Editor
Joined: 18.10.2015

And I'm marking this forum as Solved. At least we have saved the Quran from standing next to this https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lil-pump-racks-racks-lyrics.html

Editor .
Joined: 09.10.2018

It seems to me you're going to great lengths trying to pose as a victim here.
We've been trying to explain the difference between a fundamental text and a mere hymn for pages on end and you're back to square one with your "tons of religious material".

Sounds like a good time to mark the thread solved.

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

Thanks for doing this

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

You've saved the Quran from being read by people. No one asked you to place the Quran amongst pop songs. All I've asked was that it be included onto the religious section. You guys need serious treatment for your prejudices. I think you've had been bombarded with so much propaganda by the media over the years, you can't think free of political gibberish.

Editor .
Joined: 09.10.2018
T C Nazli Volkan wrote:

No one asked you to place the Quran amongst pop songs.

Actually you did. Any piece of text published here will be floating in a sea of pop songs, because the primary goal of LT happens to be translating pop songs. That's the trouble with brainwashed people, they just love pop music.

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

You should be banned for this

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

Yes, quickly close the form so no one apart from this moderator-editor gang can come and add their views on the subject to bring out the flows and double-standards of your arguments.

Editor Slim Shady
Joined: 05.11.2014

Since religious texts are not allowed, does that mean that we are discriminating? In that case, if we go in your direction, since you absolutely want it to be allowed, are you doing propaganda? Please be serious. This conversation is proof that the first thing it would bring if religious texts were allowed would be confusion. Actually peoples already gave their views on the subject, either with comments, either with the like buttons. Now this topic is solved. End of the story.

Member
Joined: 25.03.2016

If you drop your golden chain neckless into the mud, would it lose its value? Is this site such an evil site a holy book shouldn't be in? Chunk by chunk the whole of the bible is being sung out under the name of various songs here. If this site is so unholy then they shouldn't be here too. You guys are talking utter rubbish.

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

Someone who calls himself Nazli (Nazi) isn't better so stop annoying and leave!

Super Member
Joined: 13.04.2017

Nazli is a name meaning "Beautiful" in Turkish.

Editor .
Joined: 09.10.2018

I think you overestimate the extent of both our powers and our cruelty.
It seems to me we've been very patient with you, and pretty civil until you started dragging this thread towards the gutter with your victim act, at which point a few of us naughty editor-moderators indulged in a touch of mild irony, which unfortunately seems to have been wasted on you.

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

Sorry Brat but he's more like a Nazi Guy as a Beautiful Guy since he is writing that way

Moderator sapiens sapiens
Joined: 05.04.2012

I don't know the Qur'an, but I agree with almost all of the comments left here. I don't think LT is a suitable place for them because it's not a specialized website in religious translations. It's just for us not to be accused of promoting hate and discrimination. Imagine if I, not knowing a single word of Arabic, did a misinterpretation of it and believers found it offensive, leaving the website? Wouldn't it be best to leave it just for places where the main intent is translating the Word of God accurately and nicely? It's a very sensitive situation, not one to be dealt with without thinking extensively. And no one here wants to be accused of promoting hate or of causing situations. Besides, no one here has been biased or hateful, at least, not that I've noticed.

Users have spoken their minds, so I go with them. If most don't think we should allow the Qur'an, then it won't be added.

Please understand that no disrespect is being meant - we are being very polite and listening to all opinions.

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

Thank you for your wise words Alma

Super Member
Joined: 19.07.2018

You just confirmed our theory that LT wouldn't be a suitable place for the entire Koran - nobody asked or even thought of uploading the entire bible or they would be given the same answer.
For you to imply that this denial makes LT evil further supports the concept that bothers me the most - you will defend every word in a book you will deem unfittingly translated, in your view, and call it holy while branding opposing views evil. Opposition will do the same and the same strife as in life will continue.

People of God don't value a book over a fellow man.
People of God don't wish infidels dead or promise heaven only to followers of Jesus.
People of God want to make peace.
There are not enough people of God speaking up!

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017

Then they should change their picture to something beautiful Regular smile

Super Member
Joined: 19.07.2018

Ohhh, we don't get to judge user ID or photos. Though, this isn't the first photo which is confusing to me. But I knew Nazlia is a girl's name. And SOME women feel male identity makes them more credible. So, live and let live, Kitty.

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017

D, I’ve been silent on this topic, мяу

Editor .
Joined: 09.10.2018
Igeethecat wrote:

D, I’ve been silent on this topic, мяу

Stealing my lines, are you, Maria ? Wink smile

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