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Sign Languages

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<a href="/en/translator/swedens0ur" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334503">swedensour</a>
Joined: 09.04.2017
Pending moderation

Hi, I noticed that we have a category for American Sign Language, and I was just wondering why we don't have categories for other sign languages from other countries and languages, like Auslan or Finnish sign language, for example.

Super Member
<a href="/en/translator/sailor-pokemoon2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1399679">Sailor PokeMoon2</a>
Joined: 21.10.2018

Ugh! There are OTHER sign languages for other languages and countries!?

<a href="/en/translator/swedens0ur" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334503">swedensour</a>
Joined: 09.04.2017

Yeah in Australia we have Auslan, for example, and it's a very popular thing to study at the school I work at. Someone who speaks ASL would have a bit of difficulty understanding Auslan or UK sign language, from my understanding.

<a href="/en/translator/swedens0ur" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334503">swedensour</a>
Joined: 09.04.2017

But maybe since the ASL translations just seem to be a transcription of the grammar and morphology in sign language, that transcribing into another English-based sign language might be too difficult.... maybe the signs themselves are different but the grammar is the same? I'm not even sure I should be speaking about this since I'm not deaf but I was mostly just curious as to why there's American Sign Language but not Auslan

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<a href="/en/translator/sailor-pokemoon2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1399679">Sailor PokeMoon2</a>
Joined: 21.10.2018

I'm not deaf either but I have been curious about ASL translations though from other places.

Editor in search of Anningan & Malina
<a href="/en/translator/sydney-lover" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1112972">DarkJoshua</a>
Joined: 10.05.2012

I'm not deaf and I don't know any sign language, but I know some things or two you may find interesting or useful.
Every country has its own sign language. Actually, as far as I know, the UK has even two different sign languages, but apparently one (BSL or British Sign Language) is more popular than the other (SSL or Sign Supported English) and the latter basically uses the same signs as the former, but with the same grammar as the spoken language.
Spoken languages are usually categorised in different families according to grammar, vocabulary and other similar or identical features. It works the same way for sign languages. Because deafs came out with their own language, there were different schools with different ways of expressing their language through signs. Other countries adopted these teachings and adjusted them to their needs. That's why ASL is in the French Sign Language family, because the Americans (as well as some other European countries including Italy and Portugal, to my knowledge, at least) basically learnt their sign language from the French school.
One very interesting case is the Irish Sign Language. Sign languages have dialects, as spoken languages do, and the Irish Sign Language has two dialects: one used by the women and the other by the men. That's because the two languages were born back when there was still single-sex education, so that the girls' school developed their language independently from the boys' school. Unfortunately nowadays the girls' dialect is declining, because those who learnt it switched to the male dialect.

As for your original question "why we don't have categories for other sign languages from other countries and languages?" I think that's due to the demand. Except for ASL translators, I've never seen here claiming to know any other sign language. We could add one, if there's enough material to justify the creation of a new category, but, as far as I know, no one here seems to know any sign language or to be able to translate in a sign language.

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<a href="/en/translator/lizzzard" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1241111">Lizzzard</a>
Joined: 01.04.2015

Very interesting topic.
i've seen some videos in russian sign language, maybe there is a chance someone can write it down, if we post requests with videos?
(or even without written text - it could be just interesting for those who have deaf friends/family to share favorite songs with them)
examples

(cover of 1st cover) ))

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<a href="/en/translator/sailor-pokemoon2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1399679">Sailor PokeMoon2</a>
Joined: 21.10.2018

In some countries, like the USA, many media sources like TV shows have closed captions available (though sometimes the captions are NOT very reliable at all) while other countries examples: Brazil and Portugal have a person or an interpreter on the TV screen (like say in the lower right hand corner of the screen) making motions or hand movements either live or "live" on the screen while the program is airing.

Moderator sapiens sapiens
<a href="/en/translator/knee427" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

The issue is that some sign languages do not have written systems. Libras, the Brazilian one, doesn't, for instance. They often use the hand symbols instead of letters. I know it because I speak the very basic of it. I suggested it to LT a while back, they said they couldn't add it due to technical difficulties. I don't know about others, though. If they have written systems that use letters and not symbols, I don't see why they couldn't (or shouldn't) be added.

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<a href="/en/translator/lizzzard" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1241111">Lizzzard</a>
Joined: 01.04.2015

[@Alma Barroca]
Maybe it is worth making an exception for such songs? and allow publication of videos without text (or with plain text). Because if there is no writing system, deaf people can still read it from the video. (and hearing one - can find the plain text on the site)

Moderator sapiens sapiens
<a href="/en/translator/knee427" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

I don't know how site technicalities work, but we can try and suggest them again. But as translations are mainly written, I would disagree on allowing text less videos...

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<a href="/en/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Joined: 31.08.2018

In US, there is signed English, which is different from ASL. But as DarkJoshua alluded to, the ASL on the West Coast has variation from that of East Coast, just as spoken language on both coasts has variation. And signers have their own "accents", that is, a sign may evolve slightly different from the standard.

ASL has its own syntax, so even books written by the hearing community may not make complete sense to someone born deaf, even though they know how to spell and read. In the US, if you read closed captioning for the deaf while watching a show/movie, you'll see some words changed or missing. Signing seems to get to the point. "I you go to store?" "You want apple you?" No need for auxilliary verbs, articles, prepositions (as far as I'm aware).

Taking an English song and typing it with English words that make sense to a deaf person might be an option. It is likely that the deaf community has sites like this already here in the US.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm struggling to be politically correct about a community for which I only have basic and possibly outdated knowledge. (I took several ASL classes and learned some things about deaf culture.) I guess we're supposed to say hearing-impaired, but I wish to exclude hard-of-hearing from this particular comment, as this subject is already complicated.

But a truly deaf person cannot hear sung words. My ASL teacher said on average, someone reading your lips gets 26% of what you say. And song performers don't usually hold their heads still and direct into the camera for the entire video.

They can feel drums or bass vibrations through their bodies. No doubt there are other aids. For example, in the movie Mr. Holland's opus, they have lights flashing to "translate" some of a song's emotion. Real signers in US show the emotion through body movements which some might describe as exaggerated.

I think it would be great to have videos as translations, but that would take up so much space on any site. It would require a grant or a fee to join the site. Maybe someone could sign the song and post to YouTube, then give permission for the YouTube URL to be added to the page? The deaf make their own music, and they might wish to have their songs translated into written text. There must be other sites that specialize in this.

I extol this UK band for apparently including some kind of sign language into their video cover of Only Living Boy in New York. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgA6cpPNXEk

Editor in search of Anningan & Malina
<a href="/en/translator/sydney-lover" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1112972">DarkJoshua</a>
Joined: 10.05.2012
BreezyDay wrote:

Real signers in US show the emotion through body movements which some might describe as exaggerated.

As far as I know, this is kind of a new field interpreters are trying to explore. I remember watching a video about it.

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<a href="/en/translator/lizzzard" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1241111">Lizzzard</a>
Joined: 01.04.2015

I think it would be great to have videos as translations
 

Maybe we can post videos into comment sections of translations ? 
i'm not sure what to do with texts (i understand Alma Barroca about text less videos) but it looks like russian SL do not have writing system too (i've just googled that it is in processing but not officially done)
so may be we can add SLcovers as translations with ordinary texts+SLvideo in comments
and SL original songs as songs with text on ordinal language (if there is no writing system) ?

P.S. or maybe post all SLsongs as songs and than use "related" feature to connect it with original (if there is one)
so users could fine SL interpretation.

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<a href="/en/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Joined: 31.08.2018

Wow, she is really talented/clever. And she's getting paid to go great concerts. Sign language interpreters are paid well, generally, and in the entertainment industry? She must be making a very good living and having fun in the process. I think I'm a little jealous.

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<a href="/en/translator/lizzzard" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1241111">Lizzzard</a>
Joined: 01.04.2015

hm. last idea (too much of me for today XD)
Such songs can be posted as multilingual (if it's video with singing and SL interpreter)
Text in ordinal language, and SLVideo for SL - for songs without writing system
Text on SL - if there is writing system.

Moderator of Romance Languages
<a href="/en/translator/carnivorouslamb" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1109697">phantasmagoria</a>
Joined: 31.03.2012

I learned ASL many years ago, I was getting good at it too and was invited to interpret a ceremony. However, other languages and priorities kept me from keeping up with it, so I can only sign very little now. I also have some understanding of MSL (Mexican Sign Language), but being as I am not deaf, I wouldn't be able to say whether any of the suggestions above are good ideas or not. The deaf community from what I can tell prefers CC whenever possible in videos (I noticed more of it from Youtubers who want to reach a wider audience). The deaf community can read the lyrics we provide on this site, the only use someone would have for a song in ASL is if they want to interpret it for others (either they're deaf themselves or know others who are deaf).

<a href="/en/translator/swedens0ur" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334503">swedensour</a>
Joined: 09.04.2017

Yes, I assumed that interpretation was the case for why it exists in the site itself. My question was more along the lines of, why ASL and not other sign languages.

I just noticed how many other comments there are on this thread. I can't get to all of them but I read through and I appreciate the input from all of you.

Edit: oops I edited over my original comment. That's what I get for not paying attention at work.

Super Member
<a href="/en/translator/sailor-pokemoon2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1399679">Sailor PokeMoon2</a>
Joined: 21.10.2018

Wow! No wonder I could understand mentally what the person in a video that I am thinking of could understand it 😂😂

Moderator of Romance Languages
<a href="/en/translator/carnivorouslamb" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1109697">phantasmagoria</a>
Joined: 31.03.2012
swedensour wrote:

Yes, I assumed that interpretation was the case for why it exists in the site itself. My question was more along the lines of, why ASL and not other sign languages.

When one thinks SL, ASL is the common one and is signed outside of the US more than any other SL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sign_Language#/media/File:ASL_map...

We don't have that much contribution in the ASL category and since there's no active or many members in SL, then we can't add other ones.

<a href="/en/translator/swedens0ur" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334503">swedensour</a>
Joined: 09.04.2017

My question mainly came from a place of: I live in Australia and Auslan is very common for people to study (it's my understanding that some teachers seem to be required to learn it) and I just wanted to know why there was only one option, it came from a place of mere curiosity based on observations in my life. I think that catering to other sign languages would be a good idea, but it could be that some just don't have a written form, like Alma Barroca said. But as I'm not deaf, I can't really say either way. But the video translation idea is a good one

<a href="/en/translator/swedens0ur" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334503">swedensour</a>
Joined: 09.04.2017
phantasmagoria wrote:

When one thinks SL, ASL is the common one and is signed outside of the US more than any other SL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sign_Language#/media/File:ASL_map...

We don't have that much contribution in the ASL category and since there's no active or many members in SL, then we can't add other ones.

Sorry I edited over my other comment, I had it open in a new tab and I'm at work so I messed it up. I didn't know that ASL was even used outside of the US.

Super Member
<a href="/en/translator/sailor-pokemoon2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1399679">Sailor PokeMoon2</a>
Joined: 21.10.2018

I can't get to all of the comments either 😂

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<a href="/en/translator/lizzzard" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1241111">Lizzzard</a>
Joined: 01.04.2015

 the only use someone would have for a song in ASL is if they want to interpret it for others 

from comments under RSL music Videos i would say deaf people appreciate SL a lot. maybe because bigger difference between russian and RSL.
interesting fact, by the way, that RSL is closer to ASL than to classical russian (ASL and RSL is even related). so for some "deaf from been born" people - russian subtitles would be like foreign language.

Maybe common "sign language" could be added. and users could state language variant in comments)

Moderator sapiens sapiens
<a href="/en/translator/knee427" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

[@Ivan Ortiz Jr.] is a hearing-impaired user of the website, and I really would like to hear his opinion, but unfortunately, it seems he's gone.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/en/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1077079">Sciera</a>
Joined: 16.02.2011

I have heard that the signs could be broken down into certain aspects (type of movement, position of hand in relation to body, and 2 or 3 more) and that there are some transcription systems for them.

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<a href="/en/translator/lizzzard" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1241111">Lizzzard</a>
Joined: 01.04.2015

maybe this http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/ ?

in russian part of youtube (as i see) ppl use videos itself as translations and if they want SL translation of some song - they ask for video

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/en/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1077079">Sciera</a>
Joined: 16.02.2011
Lizzzard wrote:

maybe this http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/ ?

Yes, that's one of the sites I had in mind. I might also have seen a different system that worked fully linear and could be typed down in unicode symbols, but not sure atm.

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<a href="/en/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Joined: 31.08.2018

Videos URLs have potential. Seems to go hand-in-hand with the issue of subscribers wanting to add their favorite video (cover) of a song to a page.

People who want to translate would have to be willing to make a video on another site, like YouTube. But who would judge whether the translation was accurate? How would you recruit people fluent in spoken language and sign language in so many different countries?

If signs are typed, same issue. Who would know if the translation was accurate?

As Alma Barroca mentioned, LT needs feedback from people within the various deaf communities. There is a reason no one is coming to this site for ASL. I don't know what the reason is. LT could start with ASL, contact an official country-wide organization, and get their feedback.

Otherwise LT potentially guesses the needs of others rather than coming out and asking them. Communication would be wise.

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<a href="/en/translator/lizzzard" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1241111">Lizzzard</a>
Joined: 01.04.2015

>Who would know if the translation was accurate?

IMHO in part of cases it could be judged by comments(by deaf peoples) under youtube videos (for old videos of course)
or if interpreters are deaf themselves.
for example here artist is deaf, so she know what she is saying

it's IMHO. i just browsing RSL videos and they are awesome.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/en/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1077079">Sciera</a>
Joined: 16.02.2011

We have a lot of languages in our database where we can not easily find speakers of to make sure that translations are accurate. So that wouldn't be a barrier against adding sign languages imo.

Super Member
<a href="/en/translator/sailor-pokemoon2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1399679">Sailor PokeMoon2</a>
Joined: 21.10.2018

Sad but painfully true

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