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About a line.

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Super Member
Joined: 30.07.2013
Pending moderation

Shouldn't it be 'it' not 'she'?
Ξέρει αυτή ν' αγαπά

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/akou-tin-kardia-%CE%AC%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%85-...

Άκου την καρδιά,
πως χτυπά δυνατά
Άκου την καρδιά
Ξέρει αυτή ν' αγαπά
Πες μου που ταξιδεύεις
για πες μου πού πας
Άκου την καρδιά
προτού να φύγεις μακριά

Listen to the heart
How loudly it beats
Listen to the heart
She knows how to love
Tell me where you're traveling to
Tell me where you're going
Listen to the heart
Before you leave

Banned User The Bride
Joined: 18.11.2018

No, because in Greek the 'heart' is a feminine, like rain, soul, tongue etc...

Moderator — I need to watch you go!
Joined: 10.07.2011
Black Mamba wrote:

No, because in Greek the 'heart' is a feminine, like rain, soul, tongue etc...

So, it would be "it", because the heart is not feminine, nor is it masculine, in English; unless the translator wanted to personify the heart.

Banned User The Bride
Joined: 18.11.2018

In Greek it is not like that, we don't care about English here, in Greek ''heart'' is a feminine. I am Greek and I know better than you.

Moderator — I need to watch you go!
Joined: 10.07.2011

Read again, and you'll understand that what you're saying is non sense.

Banned User The Bride
Joined: 18.11.2018

What you are saying is non-sense. The guy is asking about Greek language line. I told him in Greek ''heart'' is a feminine word and we use ''she''.

Moderator
Joined: 06.10.2016

This is a very interesting topic regarding other languages as well. Please don't ruin it...

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017
Black Mamba wrote:

In Greek it is not like that, we don't care about English here, in Greek ''heart'' is a feminine. I am Greek and I know better than you.

But you are talking about English translation. Unless you want to personalize “Heart” it is IT in English

Moderator — I need to watch you go!
Joined: 10.07.2011

And he stated that in ENGLISH (can you read his message again please?) it should be "IT", not "SHE". This matters little if the Greek word is feminine or masculine, because such gender doesn't exist in English.

Banned User The Bride
Joined: 18.11.2018

I am trying to explain people that Greek language is very different than English. For example, in Greek, ''Αγγλικά'' (=English) is a plural, not singualar like in English language. The word ''heart'' like ''soul'', ''tongue'' and other words is feminine, that's why we use ''she'' and ''her''.

Moderator — I need to watch you go!
Joined: 10.07.2011

Lost case. I give up. I'm off.

Super Member
Joined: 28.02.2012

But in English you can't use she or her for nouns such as heart . In English it's always IT for heart, soul and similar nouns.

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017
Black Mamba wrote:

I am trying to explain people that Greek language is very different than English. For example, in Greek, ''Αγγλικά'' (=English) is a plural, not singualar like in English language. The word ''heart'' like ''soul'', ''tongue'' and other words is feminine, that's why we use ''she'' and ''her''.

Look, in Russian, for example, tongue is muscular, soul is feminine, heart is neutral gender, but it doesn’t mean that we translate the same to English. I can only imagine how funny it would sound Regular smile

Editor
Joined: 13.12.2016
Igeethecat wrote:

Look, in Russian, for example, tongue is muscular

This is a funny typo Teeth smile

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017
Klou wrote:
Igeethecat wrote:

Look, in Russian, for example, tongue is muscular

This is a funny typo Teeth smile

Haha, my fat fingers and my tablet like to make jokes like this Regular smile
I guess everyone understands that it should be “masculine”

Nil
Member
Joined: 19.04.2018

You've just said "unless the translator wanted to personify the heart", so no, she's not saying non sense. There is room for artistic license here, specially in poetry. That kind of thing is actually pretty common in the Bible, for example:

https://forums.catholic.com/t/why-is-the-church-called-she-her/103919

Is the church a woman?

Moderator
Joined: 06.10.2016

I agree with [@Nil] about the artistic license in poetry. For example, Khalil Gibran refers to the sea as a 'she' (which I find beautiful, by the way), while in English it's an 'it', and in Hebrew it's a 'he'. So it's pretty much your choice how to translate it.

Please continue.

Super Member
Joined: 19.07.2018

Except... It says IT beats loudly so make up your mind it or she, but use it consistently else it's just grammatically wrong. I am all for poetic license.
Listen to the heart
How loudly it beats
Listen to the heart
She knows how to love

Moderator
Joined: 06.10.2016

I agree, I didn't notice that. It can't be both "it" and "she". I think it should just stay "it".

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017
Thomas222 wrote:

I agree with [@Nil] about the artistic license in poetry. For example, Khalil Gibran refers to the sea as a 'she' (which I find beautiful, by the way), while in English it's an 'it', and in Hebrew it's a 'he'. So it's pretty much your choice how to translate it.

Please continue.

Then it should be consistent - SHE all over the place and capitalized and articless (pardon my Russian perspective)

Listen to the heart
How loudly IT beats
Listen to the heart
SHE knows how to love

Moderator
Joined: 06.10.2016
Igeethecat wrote:
Thomas222 wrote:

I agree with [@Nil] about the artistic license in poetry. For example, Khalil Gibran refers to the sea as a 'she' (which I find beautiful, by the way), while in English it's an 'it', and in Hebrew it's a 'he'. So it's pretty much your choice how to translate it.

Please continue.

Then it should be consistent - SHE all over the place and capitalized and articless (pardon my Russian perspective)

Listen to the heart
How loudly IT beats
Listen to the heart
SHE knows how to love

Please don't yell at me, I'm on your side.

But how can it be consistent if you wrote yourself;

"Listen to the heart
How loudly IT beats
Listen to the heart
SHE knows how to love"?

Nil
Member
Joined: 19.04.2018

Well, poetic license is by definition something grammatically wrong that we tolerate for the sake of art. So it makes no sense to say "I am all for poetic license, as long as it follows all the grammar rules". That's why I still think it is acceptable as it is, because the first heart is literally the organ, while the second one is a metaphorical heart, for literal hearts have no brain to know anything.

Super Member
Joined: 19.07.2018

Nil, what I am saying is that it would be perfectly acceptable to use SHE, but not to I mix IT an SHE within two lines.

Moderator
Joined: 06.10.2016
Nil wrote:

Well, poetic license is by definition something grammatically wrong that we tolerate for the sake of art. So it makes no sense to say "I am all for poetic license, as long as it follows all the grammar rules". That's why I still think it is acceptable as it is, because the first heart is literally the organ, while the second one is a metaphorical heart, for literal hearts have no brain to know anything.

That was... a beautiful way to explain it. Thank you Regular smile

Nil
Member
Joined: 19.04.2018

BlackSea4ever, and why is it not acceptable to mix IT and SHE? Precisely because it is grammatically inconsistent. But if we're talking about poetic license here, maybe that inconsistence is not a problem.

Super Member
Joined: 19.07.2018

I finally understood what you explained. I see it now, it beats and personified she loves. Thanks!

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017
Thomas222 wrote:
Igeethecat wrote:
Thomas222 wrote:

I agree with [@Nil] about the artistic license in poetry. For example, Khalil Gibran refers to the sea as a 'she' (which I find beautiful, by the way), while in English it's an 'it', and in Hebrew it's a 'he'. So it's pretty much your choice how to translate it.

Please continue.

Then it should be consistent - SHE all over the place and capitalized and articless (pardon my Russian perspective)

Listen to the heart
How loudly IT beats
Listen to the heart
SHE knows how to love

Please don't yell at me, I'm on your side.

But how can it be consistent if you wrote yourself;

"Listen to the heart
How loudly IT beats
Listen to the heart
SHE knows how to love"?

Oh, I am sorry, I didn’t mean to yell at you, please forgive me if it sounded like this
But I guess my point is to use either SHE or IT, because as it is now, it is confusing - IT (the hearth) beats, but SHE (who is mysterious girl?) knows Regular smile

Editor True-to-original translations.
Joined: 29.08.2015

In the original English version of this song the girl is advising either herself or another girl to listen to her heart before saying goodbye to the loved one (in this case, a boy).

In the Greek version the GIRL only mentions the heart and the boy is not in the picture at all therefore the proper English is:

Listen to the heart
how loudly it beats.
Listen to the heart
it knows how to love.

To use "she" instead of "it" would be rather unlikely since it is a woman singing, unless you want to give the impression that the one that knows how to love is the singer herself or her girlfriend.

BTW the "sea" in the English language is referred as "she" out of respect or reverence only by people who have a direct relationship with it like sailors, sea pirates etc.

Super Member
Joined: 01.07.2018

I had a similar problem while translating Claude Roy's "La nuit" in English . I started with "it has come" (the night has come), and later I said "she", because the night is compared to a girl (in French, "nuit" is feminine).I hoped that nobody would notice this inconsequence...
By the way, strange as it might be to foreigners, in English a ship is feminine... although it's an artefact.

Editor True-to-original translations.
Joined: 29.08.2015

In the case of "The Night" you made a good decision because of the inclusion of the girl, the shepherdess, the gleaner... besides have you ever seen a night with legs? Regular smile

Super Member
Joined: 13.04.2017
Jadis wrote:

By the way, strange as it might be to foreigners, in English a ship is feminine... although it's an artefact.

There's nothing strange because their names and figureheads were mainly female...

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017
Brat wrote:
Jadis wrote:

By the way, strange as it might be to foreigners, in English a ship is feminine... although it's an artefact.

There's nothing strange because their names and figureheads were mainly female...

Isn’t it a bad luck to name ships girls’ names?

Super Member
Joined: 13.04.2017
Igeethecat wrote:

Isn’t it a bad luck to name ships girls’ names?

Well, I don't know it exactly but this ship was lucky enough though you may have another opinion.

Nil
Member
Joined: 19.04.2018

Igeethecat, when we read the isolated chorus, it may sound a bit confusing, but I guess MichaelNa's comment helped me clarify things a bit, cause he made me read the rest. He says in the Greek version the girl only mentions the heart and the boy is not in the picture at all. But I'm not so sure about that. I believe the boy is there, but the singer is talking directly to him, trying to persuade him to stay, without a second girl as mediator. If the Greek version had that second girl, it would be really ambiguous, for we wouldn't know exactly who that SHE is. Since there is not a second girl, I think it's pretty clear that SHE is the heart. Unless the singer is one of those people who talk about themselves in the third person. In that case, you guys are probably right. It's not likely, but I admit it is possible. In any case, we should discuss this in the actual page of the translation instead of using the forum. We've been here for so long no one even noticed that typo in this translation.

Super Member
Joined: 16.12.2017
Brat wrote:
Igeethecat wrote:

Isn’t it a bad luck to name ships girls’ names?

Well, I don't know it exactly but this ship was lucky enough though you may have another opinion.

True, and they call her SHE Wink smile
I don’t know why, it is somewhere in my ‘second mind’, maybe it is a Russian superstition? Like why the called a ship «Юнона»? Regular smile
И пожалуйста не говорите, что на авось пронесёт или пронесло Regular smile

Moderator and Incorrigable
Joined: 03.06.2016

Just for fun if you're curious,

A ship has been feminine for untold years. In nautical tradition referred to as 'she'. However some whiners of today want a ship to be called 'it'. They claim it is gender neutral. They usually don't sail either. Military ships had different rules for names, and do still.

Ships have a personality. They are graceful, supportive, and continually there for life and hope (like a mother, like a wife). So too, they can be ornery, spiteful, creaking, cracking, groaning, and very particular, etc.. They require great time and maintenance and have rhythms like a heart. Particularly steam operated ones. The crew take great pride in her appearance and support. She is their constant companion, their very life.
As far a feminine names go there's no problem, as long as you treat her well. A feminine name given of a bad woman is bad luck. (Beware god/deity names, there is jealousy amongst them) and no reason to tempt fate.

Never name a ship anything that challenges the sea is a superstition. Like maybe 'Neptune's Nemesis's, or something of that idea. Never rename a ship, ever, even if it's bought by someone else. This is universally thought to be very bad. It's done, but often that ship is marked and sailors will avoid it.
Feminine names are often more preferred and are historically done (i.e., ship company' owner's daughter/wife, and such), however in today's world corporations may want to be known and name them with prefaces, or marketing identities. Some are named after men as well (Even masculine named ships may be referred to as feminine). Many place names (geography). All of it is very entangled. International ships may work at your local port but actually be owned afar. The superstitions are often international. There are many, many of them.

The figurehead is at the bow of the ship to steer her safe and true. To lead her to safe port. It makes the ship more comforting and is a source of pride. Crews used to go for long stretches without feminine companionship. It's funny because there is an old superstition about women on board a vessel too. That was considered bad luck (i.e., Stenka Razin). On the practical side it caused trouble between males. In human dynamics this can be very dangerous, very bad for discipline and morale.

*By the way... when speaking of a part of the body (figuratively/literally) then use 'it'. When speaking of the total person use, 'he' or 'she' as is appropriate in English. 'It' for a human would be said as a diminutive (derogatory, and not commonly said).

Editor True-to-original translations.
Joined: 29.08.2015
Nil wrote:

Igeethecat, when we read the isolated chorus, it may sound a bit confusing, but I guess MichaelNa's comment helped me clarify things a bit, cause he made me read the rest. He says in the Greek version the girl only mentions the heart and the boy is not in the picture at all. But I'm not so sure about that. I believe the boy is there, but the singer is talking directly to him, trying to persuade him to stay, without a second girl as mediator. If the Greek version had that second girl, it would be really ambiguous, for we wouldn't know exactly who that SHE is. Since there is not a second girl, I think it's pretty clear that SHE is the heart. Unless the singer is one of those people who talk about themselves in the third person. In that case, you guys are probably right. It's not likely, but I admit it is possible. In any case, we should discuss this in the actual page of the translation instead of using the forum. We've been here for so long no one even noticed that typo in this translation.

Yes it's true, she is speaking to someone specifically.
I did not say that the other girl was there as a mediator. By choosing "she" it would mean that the female is the actual object of the singer's affection, in other words a same sex situation. Keep in mind that you're are choosing "she" just because you're translating from Greek. If one was actually composing that sentence in English one wouldn't even dream of saying "she".

BTW you should also fix these two lines, there is no such word as "occupate":

A thousand thoughts occupate your mind
The memories will hunt you aain.

Nil
Member
Joined: 19.04.2018

Yeah, you're right. But I'm not the one who made the translation, and I'm not a moderator to fix someone else's work. That's why I'm telling you guys we should discuss this in the actual page of the translation instead of using the forum.

Editor True-to-original translations.
Joined: 29.08.2015

My apologies, I neglected to go to the top and ascertain that you are not the translator.

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