Advertisements

Unfair Unpublishing

26 posts / 0 new
Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016
Pending moderation

Now Fary unpublished a Song that I added in both "Detective Conan (OST)" and in the Artist: "Petra Scheeser" and the publishing in the last one she unpublished and meant it was a duplicate though it was once said its allowed to publish double here's the link as proof that it's unpublished and I want it to be back to his publish state: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/petra-scheeser-mit-aller-kraft-lyrics.html

Moderator and earthbound misfit
Joined: 05.04.2013

The rules state clearly:

Цитата:

No duplicates.

Where did you read that publishing the same lyrics twice is allowed?

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

One of the Admins said that once and I swear to god that this is true they said that it's okay to post up a Lyrics twice one for the Series and one for the Singer/Band itself there was once a case where after this sentence everyone complaint but he stayed at his opinion and so since I readed this I do it that way

Editor - Sculptor of Language
Joined: 11.06.2015

Website-Regeln:
Inhalte hinzufügen:
Wenn ein Lied mit demselben Text gecovert oder von einer anderen Person oder Gruppe aufgeführt wurde, kannst du diese in das Feld "Auch gespielt von" schreiben.
Please put only one artist into each field. If a song has been covered or performed by another artist using the same lyrics, you can put that other artist into the field "Also performed by".

Nur wenn andere Worte verwendet werden, ist es ein "anderes" Lied.
Man kann den Eintrag: "Auch gespielt von" von einem Editor eintragen lassen.

Moderator
Joined: 21.06.2013

There's no point in having the same thing twice, don't you think so? I don't quite understand, why did you add the same song twice? For the sake of quantity? Anyhow, please, if you ever have a problem with a moderator, send the mod a PM so that you two can solve your problem or take it to the admins if you think you have been treated unfairly as stated in the FAQ. Have a good day Regular smile

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

Es wurde in dem Punkt anders erklärt weswegen ich solche Sachen auch nicht wirklich hinnehmen kann ich habe das nämlich so erklärt bekommen das wenn es sowohl eine Serie als auch einen/eine Sänger/Band gibt wo bei beiden das Lied gibt das man es bei beidem auch hinzufügen kann aber wenn das jetzt falsch war na dann glaube ich langsam das hier einige der Admins mal mehr die Regeln anschauen sollen dann sollte ich wohl mehr auf die Editoren hören...

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

We once had the rule that these kinds of duplicates are only allowed when the lyrics differ in some way.

But from all I remember, we then re-decided that these duplicates are allowed in any case - the only thing not allowed it adding the same song to the same artist twice.

The "no duplicates" in the website rules is a bit ambiguous, though, and it has been quite a while since that topic was discussed last, so that is what might have caused this misunderstanding. We might want to re-formulate them.

How sure is anyone else about how the rules are to be understood?

Member
Joined: 31.08.2018

Just to clarify . . .are we talking EXACT same song?

Because one artist may vary from the recorded version to the live version. Or the original may not fit into your collection.

For example, one subscriber already had Joaquin Sabina's 'Corre dijo la tortuga'. I duplicated it with a video link with a cover by Julieta Venegas. Mostly I did this to put into my own collection. I'm a fan of her music and I prefer her voice. But also, I learned about his music through her cover on the CD Entre Todas Las Mujeres (Voces de mujer cantan a Joaquin Sabina). I hope that putting a reference to the album into the page will direct other women to his music.

Same with Só danço samba. The version on LT does not match my favorite version. I want to put my favorite version into a Collection.

Just some things to think about. . .

Super Member
Joined: 30.11.2016

I added one and the same song to the series, in this case, was it Detective Conan and then, on the other hand, I also added this song to the singer, in this case, Petra Scheeser I just did it to clarify that SHE is the original Singer. So where is the logic to unpublish the copy I added at the singer?

Senior Member
Joined: 18.11.2018

Wait a minute. There are some songs that sung by many artists like Cher's "Bang Bang". Also, Nancy Sinatra was singing it, and Lady Gaga... (and others also). It exist many times in the site because of that reason. "Once Upon a dream" performed by Mary Costa in the movie but it also was performed by Lana Del Ray... The same as "Don't let me be misunderstood" by Nina Simone. It also sung by Animals and Santa Esmeralda. Also "Feeling Good" by Nina Simone also sung by Audra Mae & Avicii. It exists twice in the site and upon the lyrics it says "also performed by...". That is allowed. So what's the point of unpublishing?

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

The issue is that it is kind of awkward to have multiple entries for the exact same instance of a song recording that only differ by having main artist and featuring artist (or similar) swapped.

However, I checked back with the admins, and the official stance is, we do not encourage such duplicates, but it's ok for now since it facilitates finding the song.

Different recordings of the same song are allowed to be added anyway (especially if they are by different performers, but also if they differ in lyrics).

Editor Absolute Amateur
Joined: 27.03.2015

At the cost of being boring, I suggest once more time to fill the "artist" field with the name of the author , and the "performer" field with the singer's name. Obviously, should be possible to publish filling indifferently one or the other field (not everyone knows both author and performer). Thus all duplicates would be avoided.
(Anyway you can already add all the other performers in "also performed by ...")

Moderator Polyglot Scot
Joined: 26.07.2013

If the singer is in the "Also performed by" field, then the song will also appear on their artist page, therefore I see no point in adding duplicate songs where the text is exactly the same. Also bear in mind it means that it makes it harder to find translations of a specific text when they're spread across multiple artists.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011
annabellanna написал(а):

At the cost of being boring, I suggest once more time to fill the "artist" field with the name of the author , and the "performer" field with the singer's name. Obviously, should be possible to publish filling indifferently one or the other field (not everyone knows both author and performer). Thus all duplicates would be avoided.
(Anyway you can already add all the other performers in "also performed by ...")

In lots of cases we don't know the author, or the author and the performer is the same, or we have additional participants (composer, translator,...), or, as in the cases in question, that second "artist" is actually not a person but the fact that the song is part of a soundtrack.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011
dionysius написал(а):

If the singer is in the "Also performed by" field, then the song will also appear on their artist page, therefore I see no point in adding duplicate songs where the text is exactly the same. Also bear in mind it means that it makes it harder to find translations of a specific text when they're spread across multiple artists.

I'm not disagreeing ^^ Ask the admins.

Super Member
Joined: 01.07.2018

I once suggested that we had the following fields :
- Author of the text
- Composer of the music
- Performer
- (Other performers...)
If it's about a translation, one could mention the name of the author of the original text, and of the author of the present version.
If some informations are unknown, well, just mention "Unknown". In case of traditional songs, we could go on using "English folk", Russian folk" and so on.
But perhaps it's late by now to make a revolution...

Member
Joined: 31.08.2018

I can see what a mess this potentially creates, but at the same time, sometimes the lyrics are slightly different. Maybe I'm too picky but I like the words to match the song exactly, especially if I'm studying a foreign language.

If I create a collection, it is personal. If others enjoy it too, great. But I would prefer to put my favorite version into my own collection.

Going back to the example of So Danco Samba, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but the video on the page is a live version which I would describe as "saucy". But I like the studio version better because it's more cheerful. The lyrics may be the same, but I'm not comfortable putting a video into my collection that doesn't match my taste.

And putting your favorite version in has a social component because you are sharing yourself with your friends. And if you find a friend that has similar taste in music, you can look at their song list and find their favorite version.

Thanks for letting me throw in some thoughts. Regardless of changes or final decisions, this is and will continue to be a fantastic site.

Member
Joined: 31.08.2018

Thank you for the current official policy.

Super Member
Joined: 24.04.2016

Vielleicht sollte LT mal klar machen, was es eigentlich ist: Eine Video/Singer-Seite oder eine Übersetzer-Seite.
Nach meinem Eindruck gibt es sehr viele Songs bei LT, die mit demselben oder nur leicht veränderten Text zig-fach veröffentlicht wurden
und sich so auch für immer wieder neue Übersetzungen anbieten. Das finde ich nicht schlimm, wenn LT eine Musik-Seite sein will.

Soll in LT dagegen nur ein Text übersetzt werde, so genügt es natürlich, diesen zu übersetzenden Text ein einziges Mal einzustellen.

Ich hatte mit St.Mark das Problem, dass er Hunderte Texte aus einer Sammlung bei LT veröffentlicht hat, unter eben dem Namen der Sammlung. Die Sammlung ist kein Autor, gesungen wird meist auch nicht. Es geht in diesem Fall schlicht um Übersetzung, meist ohne Nennung des Urhebers. Mods konnten diesen Fall auch nicht klären.

Ich stimme annabellanna ausdrücklich zu, dass man Texte unter dem Namen des Autors (notfalls "unknown) einstellen sollte und bei Musik ggf. den Interpreten gesondert mitteilen sollte.
Aber LT ist eine sehr unorganisierte und intransparente Organisation, so dass ich nicht erwarte, dass die Regeln einmal klarer werden.

Moderator / hippie-abraça-árvore
Joined: 30.04.2014

Vor ein paar Jahren war es so, dass jeder Liedtext nur einmal erscheinen sollte und keine Coverversionen veröffentlicht werden sollten, dass hat dann aber auch einige User verärgert, die unbedingt die Versionen ihrer Lieblingssänger veröffentlicht sehen wollten, also wurde diese Regel dann geändert...
Man kann es nie allen recht machen und die Seite hat nun mal viele Nutzer, die ihre eigenen Vorstellungen haben, was hier wie veröffentlicht werden sollte...

Editor - Sculptor of Language
Joined: 11.06.2015

Ich finde, man sollte beim Originalinterpreten* eintragen (lassen) "auch performed von" und auf Doppelveröffentlichungen verzichten.
Man kann Songs finden, indem man ihren Titel in die Suchfunktion eingibt.
Man muss nicht den Interpreten kennen.
*) bei dem Interpreten, der als erster den Song bekannt gemacht hat

Super Member
Joined: 24.04.2016

Das ist leider nur eine Teilantwort, die für Songs gilt. Es gibt aber auch Gedichte oder Lieder, die gar nicht interpretiert werden. LT ist eine Seite für beides? Und es spielt dann auch keine Rolle, von wem der Text stammt?

Super Member
Joined: 24.04.2016

Wäre eindeutiger, löst aber nicht alle Fragen, siehe meine Antwort an maluca. Offen bliebe auch, wer wichtiger ist, Urheber (Texter) oder einer von 100 Interpreten.

Super Member
Joined: 01.07.2018
BreezyDay написал(а):

I can see what a mess this potentially creates, but at the same time, sometimes the lyrics are slightly different. Maybe I'm too picky but I like the words to match the song exactly, especially if I'm studying a foreign language.

I've noticed many times that versions differ from one performer to another, sometimes by just one or a few words. I guess sometimes the performer didn't remember exactly the original text, sometimes he did it on purpose. In that case I try to add a footnote, mentioning that "in the video version given here, X sings "y" instead of "z".

Super Member
Joined: 24.04.2016

Ich habe zu der Frage nach Duplikaten und ihrer Behandlung zweierlei festzustellen:
1. Es gibt nach meiner Beobachtung etliche songs, die nicht nur 2-fach, sondern in vielen Versionen von verschiedenen Interpreten gesungen, eingestellt wurden. Ob sich die Texte in diesen Fällen mehr als durch Zeichensetzung oder Absatzgestaltung unterscheiden, weiß ich nicht, meine aber nein. Insofern halte ich die Beschwerde von A wegen unfairer Behandlung grundsätzlich für berechtigt.

2. Kürzlich hat die Frage, wie verfahre ich mit "Duplikaten" auch bei mir zu Ärger geführt. Der Fall liegt allerdings anders, weil ich angeblich dadurch ein Duplikat geschaffen hätte, dass ich einen Song veröffentlicht habe, der zuvor nicht existierte, von dessen Melodie es aber eine angebliche Übersetzung (copy) gab, die aber keine Übersetzung des englischen Textes war, dafür aber das wording des von mir (später) eingestellten Chansons (wobei ich diesen Text nicht benutzte, sondern eine andere Quelle).

Die Einzelheiten kann man hier nachlesen:

I would like to draw your attention to a discussion I had with Alma Barocca because he intervened in a translation of Nana Mouskouris song "Try to remember" into French (now deleted by him) expressing his doubt that this was a translation. The answer of the "translator" - Eugene Chiayinickh - in Portuguese was it would a free translation copied from a certain page.
I knew this was not a translation but, contrary to Alma Barroca, I verified the indicated source and found out that this was a french song of Nana Mouskouri on the same melody as Try to remember but with his own text, not translated but newly written.
As Mouskouris french version ("Au coeur de septembre") was not yet published I looked for another lyrics source and published these lyrics together with the video.

Alma Barroca first replaced only my name as publisher by Eugene Chiayinickh's name without changing the wording, the text which I had published and which was without mistakes, remained. For me, this is a fake.

Only after I made a respective comment to this replacement he deleted my wording and replaced it by the wordings which Eugene Chiayinickh had published (with spelling mistakes he could not identify because he is not fit enough in french).
You may follow the whole discussion here: https://lyricstranslate.com/de/nana-mouskouri-au-cœur-de-septembreaaaa-l...

This behaviour and acting of Alma Barroca is in my eyes not correct. Barroca pretends, the text of Eugene Chiayinickh was earlier than mine and mine was therefore a duplicate and had be deleted as such.
IMO made Eugene Chiayinickh a bad translation (nothing to do with Try to remember) which may be deleted according to the rules. But to say there was a translation earlier than the published song is a erroneous application of the rules how to handle duplicates.
Please advise and also the rules.

Moderator sapiens sapiens
Joined: 05.04.2012

As you directly mentioned me, let me explain to you one more time.

  1. If a song's lyrics are added as a translation, they are removed and the lyrics are added as such - if they haven't been added yet. If the lyrics already exist, the entry is only unpublished or merged (so existing translations are moved as well and can be found in the original song entry).
  2. After you found out that Eugene submitted a song's lyrics as a translation and reported, you added the new lyrics. That's fine, however, it should have been made by us Mods - as it created a duplicate after Eugene's submission was given an entry as lyrics. You should wait for either me or someone else to do what you did.
    1. And when I came to edit and correct what was wrong, two entries for the same song were left. Eugene's (the oldest) and yours (the newest). The rule is that the oldest entry always remains, the newest goes down. Talk to the Admins if you want - and you said you would -. They'll tell you the same I'm saying.
    2. Regardless of how you arranged words, sentences, etc. your submission was the newest, and so it went down.
      1. Exactly to avoid a grander confusion, I changed the authorship from your entry from you to Eugene. So, the lyrics, in your wording etc. would be there, shown. Your name just wouldn't appear. After you got angry, I reverted it. And unpublished your duplicate entry.
  3. If you wanted things to be the way you wanted, from the beginning all you had to do was just LEAVE A COMMENT in the new entry saying 'Oh, hi, I think these lyrics are poorly arranged, can you please change it to this (your wording) so it looks better? Thanks.'. Instead, you just flipped over and said that I was offending you, that you would report to the Admins and that our rules are unfair.

Last, but not least, I don't need to be fluent in a language to deal with duplicates - I just am forbidden to change things written in lyrics without being told by someone who's fluent. You just said 'Oh, this is wrong' but never cared to tell us what should be corrected. If you gave us corrections, we'd gladly correct and would avoid this boring discussion that you haven't understood yet. You acted ahead of us and didn't wait me to do what had to be done. And now you are just crying over something you caused.
This would be the same if any other Mod came and changed the entry. You're making a fuss of something we've doing for the last years (as far as I remember, when I joined Moderation in 2013 or something it was already like that). Eugene added the lyrics in 2016. You did that in December 2018. So, they, being the oldest entry, remain. That's not hard to understand and I've told you that several times. And no other Moderator (or even the Admins) found me doing anything wrong, honestly.
If you add a duplicate to an older entry, it'll be unpublished, accept that.
Of course, if you want rules to change, create a new thread in 'Suggestions' and tell us what you think. We'll discuss about it. Do not call us unfair or brag that you don't like us meddling with what you add when we are doing our jobs.
Be good.

Add new comment