Russia is waging a disgraceful war on Ukraine. Stand With Ukraine!

Rules updated: extra-short lyrics and off-topic comments

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lt
Administrator
<a href="/en/translator/lt" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1">lt</a>
Joined: 27.05.2008
Pending moderation

Please be informed that the following rules have been added:

- Extra-short lyrics are allowed only if they were officially released.

- Comments are always welcome, however, please try to avoid off-topic comments in translations/song/artist pages. In case you want to discuss something that is not related to the content of a song/translation, you can use the chatrooms or the sub-forums. Do not bring politics or other irrelevant stuff to the website, unless it's contextualized. Off-the-rails comment sections will be closed, and frequent violators banned.

comensal
<a href="/en/translator/cosenza" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1463314">cosenza</a>
Joined: 13.07.2020

How long would "extra-short" lyrics be? A word, a sentence?

Russian asset
<a href="/en/translator/schnurrbrat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1414669">Schnurrbrat</a>
Joined: 07.03.2019

Regarding #1.
This one looks extra short: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/hakuin-ekaku-sekishu-no-koe-lyrics.html
If you think so, please unpublish.

Banned User PZ
<a href="/en/translator/pinchus" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1410652">Pinchus</a>
Joined: 28.01.2019

"О закрой свои бледные ноги" (В.Брюсов)
Опубликовать сможет только сам В.Брюсов.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/en/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1077079">Sciera</a>
Joined: 16.02.2011
Schnurrbrat wrote:

Regarding #1.
This one looks extra short: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/hakuin-ekaku-sekishu-no-koe-lyrics.html
If you think so, please unpublish.

Well, was it officially released?

Btw, @lt does that mean, the lyrics were officially released, or the song?

Guest
Guest

Oops... That will hurt. I guess we had it coming though.

Editor - Россияне домой!
<a href="/en/translator/freigeist" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1249237">Freigeist</a>
Joined: 11.06.2015

Sounds like trumpism ...
Sad smile

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫📚✍🏻👨🏻
<a href="/en/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

It's a pity we need an offtopic rule, but if it is needed, then OK.

Guest
Guest
Hansi K_Lauer wrote:

Sounds like trumpism ...
Sad smile

Freedom to bully people is another form of oppression.
I find that regrettable, but if people cannot be trusted to restrain themselves, the law has to kick in to protect the collectivity.
If that's the price to pay to avoid sliding toward Youtube, so be it.

Editor - Россияне домой!
<a href="/en/translator/freigeist" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1249237">Freigeist</a>
Joined: 11.06.2015

Any hilarious off topic conversation can be banned by a grumpy mod now.
I don't use the chat room.

Guest
Guest

I suppose that's the price to pay for letting zealots have their way for too long.
I can't say if I will stand it, but I'd rather be out of here than overstay my welcome.

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫📚✍🏻👨🏻
<a href="/en/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

I'd just like to remember that a few specific users suggested us the Mute/Stop button as a result of offtopic comments that led to offenses, finger pointing and the likes. I've told that extensively around: if people knew where to say and what things they should say, it wouldn't be needed.

Editor - Россияне домой!
<a href="/en/translator/freigeist" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1249237">Freigeist</a>
Joined: 11.06.2015

I really don't see why that was so much of a problem.
If there was arising an unpleasant conversation in the comment section of a translation,
why didn't we give the authority to the respective translator to demand to stop it?

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫📚✍🏻👨🏻
<a href="/en/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

They often did it, but were never respected. I'm against giving general users abilities to disable commenting because it would/could be a way to prevent criticism, and that's not what we want here. People just need to have common sense and think: 'If I say this, can it cause a bad reaction in others?', if the answer is yes, then they should not comment. That's basically it.

Guest
Guest

I do see why that can be a problem. Some comments simply drive people away, even if they are not offensive in themselves. Sometimes a discussion gets out of hand, no biggie (or so I hope, being myself prone to occasional ranting), but when every translation turns into a mud fight people eventually give up trying to contribute.

Editor - Россияне домой!
<a href="/en/translator/freigeist" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1249237">Freigeist</a>
Joined: 11.06.2015

An easy way to get rid of unwanted comments is to delete the translation and post it anew.

Guest
Guest

This is another form of violence though. Cancelling someone's speech is a true act of violence, guaranteed to fuel anger and resentment when it is used to cut off the dialogue abruptly, without even a word of explanation. Better leave this exercise of violence to law enforcers, in a context where decisions can be discussed and justified.
This is why I don't think this "stop list" is a good thing btw, even if I accept the decision to implement it.

Russian asset
<a href="/en/translator/schnurrbrat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1414669">Schnurrbrat</a>
Joined: 07.03.2019

No, it wasn't officially released. Not in the early 17th century, not on a CD.
But for some reason there is a genre "Poetry" available for selection, and as my Russian colleague indicated in the reply #3, one could find poems consisting of one line. And I saw a number of quotes being published on LT as well. I wish Admin would elaborate more on the 1st rule with examples of DOs and DONTs.

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020
Hansi K_Lauer wrote:

Sounds like trumpism ...
Sad smile

You are now banned for bringing politics in...
Please turn in your membership papers.

weekday translator
<a href="/en/translator/darklad" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1431788">darkLAD</a>
Joined: 27.08.2019

Not used to talk much on the comments since I usually dont get many but I'd see that some translations would be flooded with politics and other inappropriate subjects all the time, sad to see that even here we can't have a proper moment of escapism.

I suppose it becoming a rule and being enforced fairly shall discourage that kind of behaviour.

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫📚✍🏻👨🏻
<a href="/en/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012
darkLAD wrote:

I suppose it becoming a rule and being enforced fairly shall discourage that kind of behaviour.

I just hope this doesn't escalate to those Moderator dictator comments...

Guest
Guest

We can't show our true and open face no longer, because there is a "reaon". Now there are other reasons... so we are brought to "Räson" (our senses)... - silenced... 🤫

Master
<a href="/en/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Joined: 19.07.2018

Haha, Alma! Mods are usually benign dictators!

DarkLad,
I think escapism already happened when so many people closed and continue to close eyes to tyranny, corruption, and inaptitude of certain leaders. I will adhere to the no politics rule on the translation pages, but will never stop clarifying the truth for those who can’t be bothered to fact check and/or prone to indoctrination.

Guest
Guest

Some faces are better left hidden. The Internet is a jungle where ugly beasts prowl. The world is getting sicker by the day and we've reached a point where a pretence of civilization is just too difficult to maintain. Let the batons speak then.

Master
<a href="/en/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Joined: 19.07.2018

Nooo. My two fav Frenchmen aren’t welcome to my black melancholy - must have faith into humanity.
I’m struggling myself when I look at the pics of the poor minks... what horror it is to raise millions of creatures to kill them for virus or for fur...

weekday translator
<a href="/en/translator/darklad" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1431788">darkLAD</a>
Joined: 27.08.2019
BlackSea4ever wrote:

Haha, Alma! Mods are usually benign dictators!

DarkLad,
I think escapism already happened when so many people closed and continue to close eyes to tyranny, corruption, and inaptitude of certain leaders. I will adhere to the no politics rule on the translation pages, but will never stop clarifying the truth for those who can’t be bothered to fact check and/or prone to indoctrination.

This is not the place for serious political discussions, we come here to post/talk about translations and lyrics for songs, poems and the website in general. Besides, off topic subjects don't just mean political commentary, but also subjects that aren't related to either the artist or the song/poem in question.

Imho, there should be a warning for however breaks that rule telling them to either take it to private messages or drop it, but other than that, only time will tell how well moderators will enforce this.

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

[quote=Alma Barroca] I'm against giving general users abilities to disable commenting because it would/could be a way to prevent criticism

Anybody who wants to criticize in good faith can always use PM. Otherwise it is just showing off or a provocation. I am appalled by your not getting a simple fact that by not allowing authors-translators to control bad faith commenting you discourage people from creating and posting translations.
There are bullies out there who know how to make their bullying appear "legit" to mods. Good luck with appealing to the better nature of bad faith commenters. It never worked and it will never work.
Authors can't rely on all-knowing, all-noticing, always-so-fair mods that may or may not be on the same page with them culturally.

My strong opinion: whoever creates a translation is the owner of what's posted following their original post of the translation including comments. Give the authors tools to facilitate that ownership. That can be easily separated from "Thanks" and ratings.

Moderator 🍬
<a href="/en/translator/l%C3%ADadan" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1109697">líadan</a>
Joined: 31.03.2012

That's the thing though, yes you are the owner of your own translation but that doesn't extend to the "owner" of what follows on that page (the comments section). If comments are found to be irrelevant to the translation (they don't add anything to the translation like criticism, suggestions, corrections, information about words/lines/phrases or the entire song) users will be warned to either continue that conversation in a PM or if it's a discussion that doesn't break any rules, a thread can be opened to discuss that.

All translations are open to criticism, what it shouldn't be used for is to make baseless comments about how awful a translation is (proving zero effort to point out where it could be improved or what was translated incorrectly) or as a platform for politics.

And to those making comments about how well we mods can manage these changes, leave that to us then and stop lumping us all together. Even we disagree with each other sometimes but we are civil about it, compromises are made and sometimes discussions will go on for a good while before we come to an agreement about something. We're individuals too, if we make mistakes we should own up to it (I know I have).

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫📚✍🏻👨🏻
<a href="/en/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

I actually meant specific issues...

There have been cases where a user was told they broke the rules (and were even given low ratings for it) and they simply deleted the translation and uploaded it again so neither Mod's comment nor user's complains could be seen - and, to no surprise, they even brought friends along to retaliate those who showed they did something wrong. I've also seen users going and picking on specific targets, so bad/good faith is not the case here. It's a matter of courtesy and good sense.

We've always told people to refrain from saying things that have nothing to do with translation/lyrics content, but we're not kindergarten teachers, we can't forbid people from doing whatever they want - again, courtesy and good sense. They just need to understand that in case they do something bad, they'll face the consequences.

My fellow Mod Ellen also said things as they are, though.

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

We are talking past each other. I understand that you guys (mods) individually and as a group have the best intentions in mind. And you always give the best recommendations to users how to behave. Only, guess what? Some people will only pretend to follow your recommendations but will find ways to harass the author in ways that will only appear legit. And such an author will eventually say: f..k it,I am out. Will LT be better off in this scenario? I am actually trying to make your life easier. Say, a mod is trying to police a certain discussion, but sometimes that mod does not know all the languages used in the discussion, sometimes that mod culturally is not up to the task of telling good faith commenting from harassment. Throw this control back to the authors. I am sure there's a way to do that and keep productive criticism alive. And a general question: what are the procedures of suggesting functionality changes/improvement to the actual decision makers? Is there a committee or some such? Who are the actual decision makers? Do they have names?

Moderator 🍬
<a href="/en/translator/l%C3%ADadan" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1109697">líadan</a>
Joined: 31.03.2012

In that case, a mod or editor who does speak the language will be notified and asked to evaluate the conversations. In the mean time, any comments that are inappropriate will be unpublished.

Yes, it would make it easier on us. But at the same time, users who refuse to be criticized in any way could simple quiet anyone, abusing that option to do that. We can't monitor users who will abuse it, there's dozens of users who already do that. If it was maybe a few who did that, maybe it could be implemented. Again, we don't police users, we simply remind them that by creating an account on LT they agree to abide by the rules, if they don't then there's consequences.

For example, a few months ago there was a user who disagreed with our decision to unpublish their collection because they were advertising their program where users had to pay to use their services. That's a slap in the face of actual companies that pay to have their advertisements displayed on the site (for non-registered users) that pay to keep this site running. What did they do? they retaliated by commenting on my translations and leaving nasty comments under it. I didn't unpublish their comments, I could have, but I didn't. Instead, I faced them head on and reminded them that the decision was made by several moderators and I just so happened to be the one who clicked the 'unpublished' button. They further retaliated by sending me threats via PM, some which I can't repeat because they violate these sites rules.

The same way where I have criticized users in the past for submitting translations that deviated so much from the original lyrics, the translations were basically an adaption and they didn't state this in their submission, misleading users into believing it was an actual translation. If they had the ability to silence me, they'd be abusing their power by doing so. It's a two way street with that option.

As for suggestions that end up being implemented into the site, users have that opportunity and the admins will decide if it can be implemented and if there's enough support for it from the general public. I've made suggestions in the past as a moderator, some of them have never been implemented despite my position, the same goes for others moderators who have also made suggestions and their suggestions were also never implemented.

The admins make these decisions, not moderators or editors. Think of us as assistants to the administrators, we can get together and try and make decisions and if we have the power to do so (unpublishing, adding content, removing content etc.) there needs to be a legitimate reason for it. We can't make decisions based on nothing but our opinions, there needs to be proof that something violates the rules. In the past if we did this, the admins would reverse what we did and would state that the content could be allowed to stay because there was insufficient evidence. So we have to be careful with how we handle things. Unpublishing something could be done as a sort of 'pending until a decision can be made' move if it's a hotspot for people arguing but not really the right move depending on the content. I don't agree that the comments section should be completely removed, if anything it should be 'closed' until people cool down or we the moderators can come to an agreement with what should be done (what comments will be unpublished) and a moderator/editor who speaks the language has time to examine the comments.

Guest
Guest

On YouTube there is also a possibility to deactivate the comments - by the authors, not by YouTube itself. What an author wants to hear or not should be his own decision.

Guest
Guest

Well, assuming LT is supposed to work like Youtube, which is the last thing I would want to see.

Moderator 🍬
<a href="/en/translator/l%C3%ADadan" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1109697">líadan</a>
Joined: 31.03.2012

We aren't Youtube. If people don't like how this site is run, they don't have to stay here (and don't take that as me being rude because I know someone will eventually take my comment out of context). Lyrics/translations aren't set in stone, if there are mistakes in the lyrics/translations or there could be improvement in translations, then that's what the comments section is for. Every person who uses the internet should know the golden rule by now: anything you add online is open to criticism and it's on there forever. So even if you delete everything, there's a copy of it somewhere else.

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

Are you a stake-holder in the company that owns LT? If you are, are you 100% owner? If you are not, are you sure that the owners agree
with your position? I've been around Internet companies my whole life. If any of my employees dismissed the traffic generating factors
as easily as you do ...

Master
<a href="/en/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Joined: 19.07.2018

Vera, then tributes to Stalin and Hitler don’t need to hear the opposition. Then, people can freely insult and diminish all values, spew hatred, racism, homophobia... and just shut off comments???

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

If the original content is out of bounds, then the mods can deal with it. If it is within bounds, your opposition won't do much, don't kid yourself.
If somebody intends a provocation, then your "opposition" in comments is exactly what they are looking for.

Guest
Guest

You can easily improve the profitability of this site. Just turn it into another click whoring dump where jaded people can stir shitstorms on whatever whim crosses their minds. Add some fluffy cats, a supply of mostly fresh "10 most amazing pieces of garbage you must see before you die" vids and juicy Internet titbits, sprinkle the lot with scantily clad bimbos and the Adsense income will skyrocket.
You won't even need to endure these pesky, unproductive and temperamental translators anymore, they will soon flee the place on their own.
The more garbage, the richer. It's not rocket science.

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫📚✍🏻👨🏻
<a href="/en/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Joined: 05.04.2012

I guess getting rid of the 'Videos' section was good, in the end Wink smile

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

You appear as somebody who knows how to make things profitable. But are you really? Have you ever made a buck ( euro) in this area?
If you don't care about profitability, who is going to pay the bills? And there are bills to pay. So you think the programmers who work
on this site are volunteers like yourself, who only need a fix of French poetry and their families will be fed. What about the bills from the
company that hosts the servers... Spare us your highbrow nonsense.

Guru
<a href="/en/translator/proshor-proshorov" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1446931">Proshor Proshorov</a>
Joined: 17.02.2020

Please, clarify what "extra-short lyrics" means and what' s wrong with them (what are they guilty of)?

Guest
Guest

They're paid by the Internet fairy, obviously. Just like my food is provided by some benevolent entity whose identity I'm not at liberty to reveal.
Seriously though, I'm waiting for more input on how LT is supposed to be run more efficiently. I'm always eager to learn.

Guru
<a href="/en/translator/proshor-proshorov" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1446931">Proshor Proshorov</a>
Joined: 17.02.2020

Dear moderators! Can you forbid extra-long lyrics instead? It's dreary to read them, to translate - all the more.

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

You can relax. You are not the one who needs to hear the input. You are not running LT, you are not running anything. LT's business and marketing people have to be the recipients of the input. And then they can assess if your worldview and goals in life are in line with the business
goals of LT.

Master
<a href="/en/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Joined: 19.07.2018

Why does it sound like your opinion weighs more? You must have access to the owners, you need to explain how traffic should be drawn, your opinions are important while the rest of us should relax as we are irrelevant?
Love you, but you need to relax as well!

Russian asset
<a href="/en/translator/schnurrbrat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1414669">Schnurrbrat</a>
Joined: 07.03.2019

And also all those texts that are so hard to understand. Let's start with Emily Dickinson.

Guest
Guest

Oops, seems you picked the wrong channel to reach the power that be and discuss serious business.

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

Love you back, Di. And I didn't tell you to relax. You please stay alert and ready for action. Relax was said to somebody who said he is waiting
for input on how to run LT better. Input on how to run LT better has to be provided to people who actually run LT. Make sense?

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

I was not picking any channels nor was I actually trying to reach anybody. We had a discussion and the question that interested me was if
the authors should have the right to control the comments. And I think they should - at least at Youtube level. But with some editors here (wink, wink) Youtube is a bad word almost like a porn site. And I said: it is idiotic. What would LT be without Youtube? Probably would not have needed so many editors...

<a href="/en/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Joined: 08.08.2020

I could not agree more. Emily Dickinson should be banned from this site forever. And don't forget Sara Teasdale.

Guest
Guest
líadan wrote:

...If people don't like how this site is run, they don't have to stay here.

Wow, in former times they said here (in Western-Germany): "If you don't like it here, go to the GDR.!" That means, "we don't want to hear your opinion, go away!"

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