Дождь вселенский
- 1. Может означать как "заменитель души", так и "заменитель душа"
- 2. "Официальный сайт" даёт вариант "от"
- 3. так на "официальном сайте", хотя на слух вполне может быть и "простится", произносятся оба слова одинаково; а здесь кроме "простится" в электронном варианте приведены также варианты из печатных изданий: "проситься", "просится", что не очень вяжется с общим смыслом песни
- 4. здесь и во всех печатных текстах - "слезами"
Worldwide Rain
| ¡Gracias! ❤ |  |  |
| agradecida 6 veces | ||
Brat el 2017-04-22Brat el 2018-09-25| 1. | Печаль моя светла (Pechalʹ moya svetla) |
| 2. | На чёрный день (Na chyornyy denʹ) |
| 3. | Нюркина Песня (Nyurkina Pesnya) |
| 1. | просто море |
Igeethecat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 18:29
А «жёлтый мир» понимать как «жёлтый дом»?
Brat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 18:42
Желтый цвет в творчестве Янки имеет строгую привязанность к двум определяемым существительным: «цвет светофора» и «волчьи глаза». Именно через желтый происходит своеобразное расширение и искажение «реального» пространства: данный цвет, как и во многом аналогичный ему по функциям синий становится своеобразным медиумом, посредником меж двумя мирами, но, в отличие от иных цветов, желтый является наиболее «пассивным». В привычный городской пейзаж зачастую достаточно механически вводятся сторонние наблюдатели – беспристрастные и объективные, включается иная реальность – дикий и свободный мир леса: «Паутину простирать да вешать комаров.
Желтых волчьих взглядов дулом упереться в грудь...» Ночные улицы без движения перестали нуждаться в ограничении и управлении, на них полностью воцарились желтые глаза анархии, желтый свет Свободной Стаи: «В степном снежном вечере правда сотнями желтых огоньков
Светится да вьется криком в опрокинутых санях». Включенность желтого цвета в ночную палитру Янки, безусловно, не случайна и обусловлена самими описываемыми реалиями: ночной город, погруженный во тьму, не показывает иных красок, кроме «желтых тарелок светофора» да пятен кое-где светящихся фонарей. Подобная привязка цвета в основном лишь к двум реалиям делает необычайно важными те немногочисленные случаи употребления желтого в иных контекстах, с иными определяемыми словами. Мне удалось обнаружить лишь два подобных случая. Постоянная корреспонденция желтого цвета с одним из цветов светофора, ставшая устойчивым символом ночи и пустоты «жизненного пространства» стихотворений Янки, получает свое неожиданное развитие в демонстрации сумасшествия, царящего в окружающей лирического героя действительности: «Глотаем яд в таблетках пожелтевших.
Терзать слова – шаги к шизофрении...»
«Только дом, в котором очень тихо,
Желтый мир, которого все больше,
Вечный путь до края и не дальше...» Таким образом, перед нами удивительная дихотомия желтого цвета: с одной стороны, он является воплощением неограниченности свободы сознания и личности вообще, но, с другой стороны, он же становится и намеком на реальное завершение таковой свободы – сумасшествие.
https://go.org.ua/yanka/stat/178.shtml
Igeethecat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 19:16
Да уж, очень украинский флаг напоминает (без обид к братьям славянам)
но в конце концов так и получается? «жёлтый мир» понимать как «жёлтый дом»?
Brat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 19:33
Вы, простите, Маркеса-то читали?
Просто чувак написал неплохую статью, однако по какой-то причине не обратил внимание на то, что жёлтый цвет имено в этой песне употребляется в контексте дождя, что как раз-таки очень коррелирует с его "посреднической" ролью. Т.е. дождь - посредник между небом и землёй, а жёлтый цвет - посредник между мирами. Т.е. "жёлтый мир" - это на самом деле мир дуальный, объединённый из двух противоположностей, как в мозгу шизофреника - вот тут-то он и смыкается с "жёлтым домом". ;)
Igeethecat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 22:13
Маркес-то здесь причём?
Brat
Dom, 16/09/2018 - 15:23
Так он первый додумался вплести этот древний мифологический концепт в лубочный жанр, чем произвёл фурор не только среди непритязательных латиноамериканских читателей, но и по всему миру. Не было бы Маркеса - не было бы "Гадких лебедей" Стругацких, "Столетних дождей" Янки, Егора и ещё много кого. Было бы что-то другое. Вот при чём здесь Маркес. Я вот только не в курсе, как он в СССР попал: с Марксом, что ли, спутали. :)
Brat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 18:54
Reference dictionaries from both sides of the Atlantic seem to agree on "tousle" : a verb, meaning "make something untidy", especially a person's hair. The connection with a fur hat seems tenuous at best :) Or is there another meaning to шапка I missed?
Well, it's been used without object because I thought the object is obvious, just as you've just written - it's hair. I didn't want to stick to a literal translation, having an intention to render a whole picture.
путь от края -> maybe you could render the idiomatic meaning more explicitly?
An endless struggle to only barely manage to stay out of trouble, I guess?
I'm affrighted, it's not so easy. It's not до края, but the quite opposite. ;( Nevertheless I'll think of it.
Brat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 19:17
Well, I've changed it into 'beanies'. :) And just to say about край - there's such a verse -> https://lyricstranslate.com/en/yanka-dyagileva-otdykhai-ya-molchu-отдыха...
Brat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 19:37
"beanies" sounds a bit mundane. Tiara? Miter? Turban? Top hat?
Any and all of them at the same time. :)
Yes, "с краю чуть-чуть отойти" sounds like the same idea. Stop living on the edge, if only a bit further away from it, right?
Yep, you just need to read a bit more of Yanka's poetry to make it clearer..
Igeethecat
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 19:29
Шапки - beanies? Ой-ой до чего дошёл прогрес :D
BlackSea4ever
Sáb, 15/09/2018 - 22:37
Beanies... Next thing, you will use skullcap, chapeau, sombrero, or some other variation. What was wrong with hat - too simple? I think we need a collection of the most contrived translations, and issue a badge for it.
Igeethecat
Dom, 16/09/2018 - 02:00
Right to the spot, when I’m alone
???
Brat
Dom, 16/09/2018 - 15:34
Well, hitting the bingo is a bit too complex, I feel, but there's no other option: it should rhyme with the end of the line, just like in the original. "Spot on/alone could probably go, but I really cannot see a way to arrange them neatly in a verse.
As for the conditional you've mentioned - it's put there in accordance with the Russian grammar: if there was a comma, not a dash - you would be right. The problem is, I couldn't find an authorised transcription of this song except for that published by Egor Letov -> http://grob-hroniki.org/texts/yanka/tolko_dozhdj.html
I could change the conditional into a zero-type one so that it looked like a statement but I'm not sure it would help much.
sandring
Dom, 16/09/2018 - 15:10
Brat, "asleep" is used only predicatively, i.e. after a verb. It should be The sleeping world. Yellow is an acknowledged colour for madness, shapka is like troika, you don't have to translate it. (It's the same even in Hungarian :) )" How true it is if unrequited" - she speaks about love. And again you get carried away by the form at the expense of the meaning. You could have been admitted to that club Pierre mentioned with no entrance fee. :)
Brat
Dom, 16/09/2018 - 15:55
Brat, "asleep" is used only predicatively, i.e. after a verb.
Not always.
It should be The sleeping world.
I don't think it would match the meaning of "сонный страх". Sleepy fear was among my options but I chose not to use it because it would be perceived as "soporific", which is not true.
Yellow is an acknowledged colour for madness, shapka is like troika, you don't have to translate it. (It's the same even in Hungarian :) )
In English shapka is what we call ushanka in Russian; it's too specific to be used here (a broad metaphor is implied, hinting to the "ветер в голове" idiom)
" How true it is if unrequited" - she speaks about love. And again you get carried away by the form at the expense of the meaning. You could have been admitted to that club Pierre mentioned with no entrance fee. :)
Well, it's not about only love, but "unanswered" will work in any case because it's versatile.
Brat
Lun, 17/09/2018 - 16:03
That would identify love immediately, so why not use it?
That's the very reason I haven't used it. :) Looks like that 'act of love in a huge cold bathhouse' has excited you a bit too much. ;) Not only love is implied there, though I understand the reason causing your thoughts to flow at this direction. A hint to "верная, но неразделённая любовь" could be seen there, no doubt. But it's not the main meaning, just a decoy. ;)
Brat
Lun, 17/09/2018 - 19:30
Well, but it's not like Yanka. These two ones are about unrequited love -> http://grob-hroniki.org/texts/yanka/gryazj_moja_takaja.html
and the other one
Вот сижу я такая баба
И думаю что не такая вовсе
Даже не думаю а стараюсь знать
В газету завёрнутый огурец в конце февраля
Парниковый, наверное
Да по башке мне фаллическим символом
Да опять не моё
Научили: ни украсть, ни покараулить
Это чувак один научил
А я смеялся и запомнил поэтому
А чувака жалко, он сейчас такой коричневый, мне сказали
И молчит – жрёт мепробамат
А я думал, что зелёный (я) – голова кружилась
А оказалось – ничего
Вот так и то не я умею
Зато ещё могу, а если бы я, то всё бы.
Да и так всё уже.
1989
Brat
Mié, 19/09/2018 - 17:26
I'll explain this. Look, as it was stated in the excerpt I've posted above, the rain has a kind of duality. On one hand, it's necessary for plants to grow, it brings freshness and so on. On the other hand, when it rains for a week or a fortnight, problems start to reveal themselves, - such as dirt, or a flood maybe. But Marques decided to go without flood in his story, so we should not mention it further. It's also said in the study that the rain embodies both Life and Death. But how could it be so? The explanation lies in the field of existential philosophy. The rain represents the state of life when people are being permanently reminded of their mortality. Surely, people don't like rain too much, as well as they don't like to be reminded of their mortality. That's why they use umbrellas, build houses with roofs, and so on. But the next problem is dirt. When it's sunny, there's no dirt, because all the dust and other possible litters are dry, so this could be easily swept under the carpet :D But when it starts raining, the things go worse. People since that need gumboots and maybe some other items to keep their feet clean. Dirt symbolises human vice here.
Now you can easily understand what Letov meant under his "piercing rain", and it's the same with the stones that hit pates in Yanka's song. While clever people are sitting at home, under their roofs, the fool is wandering in the rain that proved to be a bit too hard to withstand... And in this song tears that were intended to form a kind of rain finally turned to be as heavy as stones.
Now I'd like to ask you to think a little about "душезаменитель". It has an "additional" meaning that's hard to decipher for the majority of native speakers but I believe your French will help you much in your study. ;) But frankly speaking, I can't understand how that could pass unseen, though it's not the main meaning.
Brat
Mié, 19/09/2018 - 18:05
That weird "душезаменитель" could mean not only "заменитель души" but also "заменитель душа". That makes the line sound dually but not like double entendre. Let's see: in the first meaning the author says that people use substitutes for souls as the means of their salvation (so that the rain would not bother their souls). The second meaning tells us that the real salvation is in the rain which was substituted with bath showers used by people in their bathhouse, and those showers need to be re-substituted again with the rain.
So, a complex metaphor is represented here:
1. The rain symbolising the awareness of mortality (which is supposed to have a kind of purifying effect, being applied to people's souls)
2. Bath showers symbolising non-religious ideology (of any type, generally)
3. The bathhouse (introduced in the next line as a huge and cold one) as a building serving as a shelter protecting people from the rain, on one hand; and providing them with bath showers, on the other hand. Now you may easily guess what it symbolises. ;)
Brat
Jue, 20/09/2018 - 18:17
Well, it's the state. Not the USSR in particular (though it's huge and cold), but generally it could be any of the so-called secular states with non-religious state ideology. As for the USSR, it was pictured in this song by A. Bashlachev using the similar metaphor of artificial rain, though much more expanded, while Yanka only touches it; and more precisely - this Bashlachev's song is about Leningrad city and the Soviet period of its history.
And then comes the wind as the first prophet of the storm (a hint to the hurricane in Macondo). And there stands a house where no sounds of rain or wind are heard. But the yellow world is growing larger and larger. Yellow colour in Yanka's poetry is the colour which warns of the upcoming Death, preceding the end of rain. ("В десяти шагах отсюда светофор мигал|Желтым светом две минуты на конец дождям|А в подземном переходе влево поворот|А в подземном коридоре гаснут фонари.")
And the eternal way then starts with the half-asleep fear...
Brat
Sáb, 22/09/2018 - 18:50
Without this symbolism, I dare say, the majority of Yanka's songs would be completely unintelligible. This song is her second one, but the first "Печаль моя светла" doesn't count, actually. So the analysis should be started right from here. Especially since the Russian Rock culture is full of examples of such metaphors. And there's actually no 'cultural gap': "Очень просто тонет в море остров" is obviously reminding this story by H.C.Andersen about the two islands disappeared, one taken by the sea, the other - by the men. This story is well-known to almost all Soviet children, and having in mind that Holsteinborg castle in that story looks to be moved far away from the sea, it alludes to Marquez again telling how Jose Arcadio Buendia once found a ship landed several miles off the shore. And if we remember about 'unrequited love', we should remember this guy who finally found the answers for all of his questions in the depths of the sea. (The metaphor of the sea as a source of life and the eternal enigma to which a man strives, is also present in this song).
And now it comes to be obvious that "Очень верно, если безответно" has rather a philosophic sense in the context. Look, there's a well-known concept, namely that every question has the right answer within. But having been answered, it ceases to be a question, regardless of whether or not the answer was right. So it usually happens that questions are answered incorrectly and then it takes some time until somebody doubts and 'revives' the question. And surely an unanswered question, a 'ding an sich', is ever true. This could be said about an unanswered passion too. Because when answered, it could turn to be a false one, like this. And while unanswered, it's always true, like any question of the kind. ;) Like the belief in God could only exist while there's no factual evidence of His existence. Because otherwise it would be knowledge instead.
Look on how the Russian "верно" is connected with "vero", "vrai", "vérité" - and also with "вера": "Верно говоришь!" ("Я тебе верю!"). It's more of a belief than a knowledge... Given that "очень" looks weird in connection with "верно". A belief could be stronger of weaker, but a correctness having such a shift would imply some degree of approximation. ;)
Brat
Dom, 23/09/2018 - 18:57
Haha you really are a strange bird, Brat.
Не успели в дождь попасть отставшие, оттого бывают птички разные (С)
I took great pleasure in reading this surprising short story of London's, but I still fail to see an obvious connection with this song. Still every post of yours is food for thought.
That's because I meant: "If the song was about an unrequited love, this love would be just like that one described by Jack". :) And yes, Yanka's songs can always give some food for thought. As for this song, it has 2 versions of lyrics but only one of them is now currently available in record. The very first record made in Omsk on 09/12/1987 has the same text as the latest one made in Kharkov on 23/06/1989, but the latter contains a phrase said after the song ended: "...по-старенькому, спасибо...". Also, the official site provides lyrics that are different from what is sung in the recorded versions, though they make the song better convey the main thought. There might have been another version somewhere in between 1987 and 1989 which lyrics are published on the official site. Since there's no record of it, I should edit the lyrics so that they correspond to the video that contains the first record. But first I'll make some research on this.
polina_sk 
Brat
Dom, 16/09/2018 - 17:29
Thanks, Pierre, you've just reminded me of the way I went when translating this song. First, it was "half-asleep", that's technically, the closest match, and grammatically correct, but then I switched it to "asleep" in order to fit the metre, thus violating the grammar. :)
Well, "сонный страх" actually means "подспудный, неосознанный, нечёткий и несильный страх". I believe there's some special word in the depths of English that would match the meaning implied by the author for there are so many synonyms...
sandring
Lun, 17/09/2018 - 07:38
I have won ten bucks! Asleep is used ONLY predicatively. That's exactly what the article says. Look at the list of adjectives below. If Brat goes on arguing with me on English grammar I'm afraid he"ll go busking in the street. :) :) :) Just kidding, nothing personal.
Brat
Mar, 18/09/2018 - 14:46
Well, I didn't argue about my slip, nor did I bet Nadya a dime, but I just said that "asleep" isn't obliged to stand always after a verb, neither it is used always as a predicative , and if Nadya had scrolled the page suggested by Pierre a little bit down to the 'Exceptions' section, she would have found that 'asleep' could also serve as a modifier in sentences like "The half-asleep child started crying." or "The almost asleep dog started barking". So, actually, "asleep" could be put before a noun either in inverted sentences or when it's used as a part of a complex modifier. I hope, everything is crystal-clear now. :)
Brat
Dom, 16/09/2018 - 16:13
Asleep he wheezes at his ease … -> https://fantlab.ru/work660623 (Used as a modifier followed by a pronoun. I can't find the full text though but it's about a dog.) Well, "сонный страх" is as weird in Rusian as the asleep fright is in English, it's probably totally untranslatable, only an approximate rendition is possible.
sandring
Lun, 17/09/2018 - 06:59
No, Brat, it's a reverse word order. = He wheezes asleep at his ease. See, "asleep" comes after a verb and so it shall be - always. Some rules will stand forever. :) You need "сонный страх", equally rhythmed. Let's see
Endless walk from edge to no father
Drowsing fear to say goodbye to tears
Nevertheless it's still a well understandable and phonaesthetically best choice. ;)