About the Shortness of Life (So Let's Be Merry)
- 1. the imperatives here are plural (could be translated as "you all, go"
- 2. refers to the gods or to heaven
- 3. refers to the gods of the underworld or to the underworld
- 4. lit. "be limited"
- 5. lit. "it's not spared to anyone"
- 6. lit. without "long". Same in the other lines
- 7. I'm very unsure about these 5 lines; the "public marketplace" refers to the campus of a university
- 8. that means "nourishing mother", it's an expression that refers to the university
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Sciera el 2013-05-29
Calusarul Sciera el 2018-07-21Sciera
Mié, 29/05/2013 - 22:20
finietur: corrected; I've overlooked that, thanks
are you sure that "membrum" means "member"?
"membra" at least is neuter plural, not femininum, or it would be "vivat membra" or "vivant membrae" instead of "vivant membra".
Btw, at the time this latin text was written there were no female students.
"res publica": In school I learned that this is an expression that is to be translated with "the state", "the nation", so it refers to the system, not to the people that this system consists of. But that's only what I remember.
evfokas
Mié, 29/05/2013 - 22:34
For membrum the root is the same with member, it actually means part like members are parts of a society and parts of the body are called also members
quodlibet is here:whoever he is
quaelibet is here feminine:whoever they(girls) are, but that can't be expressed in english
EDITFor res publica the closest modern meaning is public affairs, so yes in latin it means state but republic (Rome was a republic) originates from res publica and the public affairs in a republic are discussed in the Commons. It's your choice I was only suggesting
EDIT2 membrum is neutral so this is why he says membra but then uses quaelibet to clarify the meaning at least this is what I think. As for girls in the academy I believe you're right and maybe there is a hidden meaning here
evfokas
Mié, 29/05/2013 - 23:41
This membrum/membra thingie must be a latin innuendo or wordplay, like "male member" in english, but I can't figure out the exact meaning right yet
and come to think of it maybe it is exactly that said the actress to the bishop
long live the male member whatever it may be
long live all of the female members whatever they may be
and since there aren't female Academy members there you are
I like this song and I'll give it an A+
Sciera
Jue, 30/05/2013 - 09:10
Thanks!
I don't know if "membrum" in Latin also means "member" in the sense of a person; that meaning's not given in the dictionaries I look it up in. In English it surely is the same word but it has changed its meaning from Latin to English.
"quaelibet" is also the neuter plural form. I hardly doubt that "female members" are meant here, it's just not what the Latin sentence means.
Perhaps the first line means "every member", and the second one "every part".
About res publica: I think "state" fits a bit better. Other translations I found were "commonship" and "community" but I think both don't really fit here.
But I'm not quite sure how to translate this best.
evfokas
Vie, 31/05/2013 - 17:38
I've entered what I think the feel of the song is here but haven't added the 3 last verses because they must have been added later on, since their style differs.
My suggestion pereat, floreat: let perish/flourish.
As for antiburschius I don't know what it is, I can only guess it means penny-pincher, have you consulted a dictionary?
Forum and ancient greek agora is a place/gathering where people discuss freely hence the modern fora
Sciera
Vie, 31/05/2013 - 17:52
Why "let perish/flourish"? It's 3rd person, not 2nd.
In the wikipedia entry it says that "antiburschius" refers to fraternities (in german "Burschenschaften"), so an "antiburschius" is an "anti-frat-boy" or something like that.
I know what the latin expression "forum" means but I looked it up in dictionaries and there the main meaning was "marketplace". And since I have no idea how to express its real meaning in english I left it at that.
Sciera
Vie, 31/05/2013 - 20:37
@evfokas: But the latin sentence is no wish that is directed at a person but at fate/god/whatever, so I'm not sure if "let" would normally be used for that.
@Berliner25
Doesn't "to be jolly" mean "to be happy and party"? As I understand the lyrics that's what is meant, it's a drinking song.
I know what "alma mater" means. Doesn't anyone read my footnotes? Okay, I'll change it.
"in flore" means "abloom". I already use "flourish" to translate "floreat".
evfokas
Vie, 31/05/2013 - 21:05
You can also use the construction like perish the sadness or be perished the sadness or may the sadness perish or may the sadness be perished that are more uncommon (just like "long live ..." these are all wishes)
let's be jolly (1st p imperative by the way) is more like look at the bright side of life but it's your call
Sciera
Sáb, 01/06/2013 - 10:27
@Berliner25: But "let us be jolly" is an invitation to enter this state.
And "gaudere" means "to be happy", so it also is a state of being.
"rejoice" to me seems to be an almost archaic expression, I only have heard it in very formal contexts. That's why I decided against it.
I had and still have a bit problems finding the right expression for this, though. I'd normally use the german expression "fröhlich" but I don't know what the english equivalent of it is.
There are so many different translations of it to be found: http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/search?source=auto&query=fr%F6hlich
Most of these I've never read in an original english text before, only in textbooks if at all. Would "cheery" fit better? Or "merry"? Or "blithe"?
@evfokas: "The sadness shall perish" is also a wish - at least the german equivalent of it ("Die Traurigkeit möge zugrunde gehen") is one. Instead I'd also use "May the sadness perish", but to me that seems to mean the same, so I wonder why I should change it.
evfokas
Dom, 02/06/2013 - 08:51
I'm no grammar expert but I don't think there are any modern english imperatives with shall (commands use should). I think you're maybe confusing old english imperatives like "thou shalt ...", but these are also commanding, or "shall we?" which is a suggestion in the form of question. Pereat just as gaudeamus are suggestive, so if you use let in the later why not use it in the former as well? Anyway shall is mostly an auxiliary verb and in the form "shall" is generally used to indicate the future and the rest of it's uses indicate obligation
Sciera
Dom, 02/06/2013 - 09:29
Oh, I've read contructions with "shall" in many contemporary English texts.
The first one that comes to my mind is: "it now shall be no guts no glory" (by Bolt Thrower, a British band). It surely is a bit of an antiquated way of speaking, though.
Or, by a german vocalist: "and I shall see to it that in our new world...".
You are right, these are not really imperatives. I'd rather discribe it as wishes towards a higher entity - which also "pereat" is.
"pereat" doesn't suggest a person to "perish" the things listed there but makes a wish towards fate. That's why it doesn't seem right to me to use "let" here. But if a native speaker will tell me that it can also be used that way I'll change it.
Well, I've changed "jolly" now to "merry" since that at least fits a tad better.
evfokas
Dom, 02/06/2013 - 10:06
I'll say no more on the subject because I'm becoming tiresome, my feeling though for gaudeamus is that it has a double meaning beyond the obvious one: let's amuse ourselves with the things said herein; and this is why it uses the word igitur, and the whole song is meant to be a prank except from the 3 last verses
TrampGuy Sciera
Dom, 02/06/2013 - 18:43
There are not many Gothic texts presevered, and I don't know any artists that have used these as lyrics. So, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_language#History_and_evidence
Daniel Hyman
Dom, 21/09/2014 - 12:47
Thanks very much for this! In verse 5, note that "reign" is intransitive; a better fit is "rule".
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