I think this page is too generic, it includes all Christian songs, of whatever gender and style, not only orthodox Byzantine hymns.
A new page could be created in which Byzantine chants converge, especially if their author is unknown and they belong to the Orthodox singing tradition.
The name of this page has been changed from Orthodox Christian Hymns to Christian Hymns & Songs, so now it contains songs generally related to the Christian religion.
Instead, the other page (Worship Songs) has been renamed as “Worship Songs – Various Religions”.
That’s the reason why I was asking Greek users to create another page about the Byzantine / Orthodox musical style. I’m not competent at all and cannot take their place, so I’m still waiting for their hints.
No Fani, I don't mean to separate songs by dogmas, they are all Christian songs and the dogmatic differences between Christian churches are very little.
I mean to separate them by musical style. The Byzantine style has its particular features (isokratima, octoechos, etc.) and sometimes Byzantine hymns are sung also in English or in other languages than in Greek and in the traditional orthodox languages (Russian, Coptic, Romanian, Aramaic, Old Slavonic etc.) but their musical style is unique and unmistakable.
So, someone who knows the Byzantine melody better than me, could entitle a new page as "Byzantine music" (or something similar), sorting them by musical style instead of by religious content.
Well, there are many Orthodox songs that aren't sung in the Byzantine style. Do you know veterisflammae? She is very interested in Byzantine music, she already spoke to me about this musical style, but I'm not competent enough. You could discuss with her to find a good way to build a new page.
Ι agree with Hampsicora about the unique byzantine style. If you "build" that new page, I need your help with the hymne of the monks above! I tried to transfer it into the religious songs...unsuccessfully!
Afroditi, to make a page including Byzantine songs, you should set “Byzantyne music” (or any other way you want to call it) as the name of the artist. Obviously, if a song has already a given artist, you can’t.
For example, these hymns have already their artist https://lyricstranslate.com/en/romanos-melodist-lyrics.html
But actually St. Romanos the Melodist is the composer, not the performer. So you may want to set “Byzantine music” as the artist (performer) and add a submitter’s comment in which you specify that St. Romanos the Melodist is the author of the music and lyrics.
(I added such comment in this case https://lyricstranslate.com/en/marisa-sannia-ierru-lyrics.html or more simply in this case https://lyricstranslate.com/en/maria-giovanna-cherchi-cara-e-luna-lyrics...)
An editor or a mod can help you to make these changes.
I agree there is something different, the melody style seems to me somewhat different, but I'm not an expert.
In any case this is an example how you can make a page setting the gender name in place of the artist's name.
Just a remark, if it is pemited. Ancientmuse says that "the Byzantine music are only Orthodox hymns". It is not true. There are two categories of byzantine music: ecclesiastic hymns (ekklisiastikoi ymnoi) and secular music (kosmiki mousiki). Christodoulow Chalaris has worked a lot on secular byzantine music. Here you can find a sample of his work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ9R2V96jk4
Sure there is the kosmiki mousiki, I didn't disagree with that I talked about the hymns which already exists in the community... Although, the pieces of secular music are rare in Byzantine manuscripts.
So, Mr. Alexandridis you could help to individualize the secular hymns from the ecclesiastic ones... if there are ofcourse!
I'm sorry, I cannot help because I'm not a specialist in this topic. You can find information about byzantine secular music in the following site (in greek only) http://ofisofi.blogspot.gr/2012/01/blog-post_22.html, as well as in other sites.
I believe, however, that there is not a society without secular music. People need hymnes to adore or to glorify god as well as secular music to express its feelings. Of course there is an interaction between these two kinds of music, for example the hymnes of russian orthodoxe church are very similar to russian folk music and songs. Thus, we could say the same thing about byzantine ecclesiastic music and byzantine secular music.
My friends, I’m so glad that so many competent people have the chance to discuss about this topics. I’m not competent at all, but if you need my help as a moderator I’ll gladly help you. Feel free to discuss and to find the better sorting for these songs (but please don’t quarrel )
I recommend this folder to be broken up into smaller folders:
# One for latin hymns
# One for Song of the LDS (Mormon) religion, that are not in the official hymnal (of which i entered all 300+ songs)
# One for byzantine/greek hymns
# One for contemporary worswhip music (everything that is NOT hillsong, but the same style)
that would be a good start.
I can not help you however if you boycott me for entering 10 songs of a skinhead band.
being a "superuser" is not so "super" when trying to keep this ship running.
so do the right thing and make me editor again. I'll probably buy out this database sometime anyway.
PS: some folders already exist, like "Mormon Tabernacle Choir". so all it needs is proper foldering.
I agree in part on your proposal. Currently, we have a categorization for main religious groups: Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, as far as I remember, plus one page for other religions. It’s a categorization essentially based on dogmatic parameters, but we also take into account other criteria: language, geographic location, musical style, and so on. And actually we have many pages of worship songs sorted by nation or language (Arabic, Swahili, French, Thai, Norwegian, Greek, Indonesian and many others).
Adding more subdivisions would complicate the matter too much, and would encourage to multiply subdivisions also for other religions (Sunni Islam, Shiite Islam, Ismaili… Tibetan Buddhism, Mahayana, Vajrayana, Theravada, Zen… Orthodox Judaism, Conservative Judaism, Reform Judaism, Sephardic and Yiddish traditions…) in an endless sequence.
Incidentally, I know the Word Council of Churches doesn’t admit the Mormon religion as a Christian religion, so it should go in the page Worship songs - Various religions. And why not include hillsong?
Also, not all Latin chants are Gregorian chants, not all Protestant hymns are organ chorales and not all Orthodox songs are in the Byzantine style or in Greek language…
Ultimately, there would be room for a lot of endless discussions.
So for now I’d settle to have some more suggestions from Byzantine fans to create a specific page on this gender.
Other pages can be created but IMO only based on the musical style, or this site will become a battlefield for dogmatic diatribes…
I have nothing against you, we met so little, so please avoid polemics.
I just applied our rules as it’s the duty of any moderator. Songs inciting to hatred and racism aren’t allowed in this multicultural site, I didn’t unpublish only your stuff but also other songs (not only skinhead songs) in order to preserve the peace in our community. And you can bet I’ll continue to do so.
Anyway I haven’t the “superpower” to give or take away the status of editor to anyone, you know that only the admins can. And you know well they demoted you for much else than for a few silly Nazi songs.
Sorry, I can’t help you in this matter, I can only suggest you to be a good guy and not to make the admins angry if you want to have your “superpowers” back.
Adding more subdivisions would complicate the matter too much ---- i disagree
And actually we have many pages of worship songs sorted by nation or language ----- yes, cause I created them all
And why not include hillsong? ----- cause it already has half a dozen folders
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I can only suggest you to be a good guy and not to make the admins angry ------ you're hilarious !
I’m glad I made you laugh, it’s a good remedy for depression
I appreciate your work of sorting worship songs by language/nation, after all it’s a good and neutral criterion to avoid endless doctrinal debates.
I would just suggest you to put these songs under the name of their author or performer whenever he is known, and to reserve the generic “Worship Songs …X” just for traditional songs or songs whose author is unknown, adding the performer at least as “featuring artist” when possible.
Do you agree on this?
Miley_Lovato
Vie, 23/02/2018 - 23:24
Alma Barroca
Vie, 23/02/2018 - 23:27
Hampsicora
Sáb, 24/02/2018 - 22:33
Froly D.
Christos Alexandridis
Dom, 25/02/2018 - 13:22
Guest
Dom, 25/02/2018 - 14:58
SaintMark
Mar, 11/09/2018 - 15:40
Wouldn't this fit better in another entry? 'Monks of Simonos Petra monastery, mount Athos' might be too hard or confusing to find.