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Stefano Saletti e Piccola Banda Ikona - Θάλαττα (Thalatta)

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Θάλαττα

Ἄμμανεεε ἄμμανεε ἄμμανεε ααα… (x4)
 
Ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
Τοῦ θαλασσίου,
Πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου.
Ἐστέ, ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες
-Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνό (φαμεν)-,
Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις,
Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ
Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες
Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι,
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Ὦ θάλαττα!
 
Ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
Τοῦ θαλασσίου,
Πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου.
Ἐστέ, ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες
-Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνό (φαμεν)-,
Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις,
Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ
Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες
Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι,
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Ὦ θάλαττα!
 
Ἄμμανεεε ἄμμανεε ἄμμανεε ααα… (x4)
Ἆ ἆ…
 
Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (x4)…
 
Ἄμμανεεε ἄμμανεε (Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου)
Ἄμμανεε ααα… (Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου)
(x4)
 
Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (x8)…
 
¡Gracias!
1 agradecimiento
Publicado por Alberto ScottiAlberto Scotti el Vie, 02/07/2021 - 12:13
Editado por última vez por FaryFary el Sáb, 31/07/2021 - 08:54

 

Las traducciónes de "Θάλαττα (Thalatta)"
Stefano Saletti e Piccola Banda Ikona: 3 más populares
Comentarios
MickGMickG    Mar, 20/07/2021 - 12:25

Current lyrics:

Ay o megalonuma teknā
Tou talassiou
Pedatè parā famaton
Kai tin alos
Kalidon adelfoi aptugetu
Karidon adelfoi
Kai tin alos aptugetu
O palai pot ontes emeis
Alkimoi den maxais
Kai kat autō
Tuto monon andres
Alkotatoi
Caridon adelfoi
Tu thalatta

A few comments:

##1. Who the heck sets Ancient Greek to music while completely ignoring both vowel/syllable lengths AND accents? Is this supposed to be a high-school "lettura in metrica" (metrical reading)? And how the heck does an ictus end up on the a of tékna? Is this trying to mimic a bad student trying to read this metrically in Italian high school style and making mistakes?
##2. Ancient Greek should be written in Greek characters, at any rate. Definitely not in a horrible transliteration with random diacritics.
##3. And especially not in one with incorrect sounds! It's already bad enough to transliterate theta and tau the same way, but psi as f?
##4. Then again, the student from item 1 seems to be misreading, because it's psámaton, not fámaton. And how the heck does ág' get read as ay? And atrygétoy as aptugetu?
##5. And o my gosh, that transliteration doesn't even quite match the video! Some lines are missing whole syllables! Let me fix that transliteration up a bit:

Ammaneee yammaneee yammaneee aaa… (x4)

Ay o megalonuma tekna
Tou talassiou
Pedate para famaton
Kai tin alos
Karidon adelfoi aptugetu
Karidon adelfoi
Kai tin alos aptugetu
Este o palai pothontes
Emeis nun ekeino
Alkimoi de maxa-ais
Kai kat autō
Tuto monon andres (Tonononon andres)
Alkotatoi
Karidon adelfoi
O talatta

Ay o megalonuma tekna
Tou thalassiou
Pedate para famaton
Kai tin alos
Karidon adelfoi aptugetu
Karidon adelfoi
Kai tin alos aptugetu
Ei se o palai pothontes
Emeis nun ekeino
Alkimoi den maxaḯs
Kai kat autō
Tono monon andres
Alkotatoi
Karidon adelfoi
O talatta

Ammaneee yammaneee yammaneee aaa… (x4)
Aa…
Kai alos aptugetu (x4)…
Ammaneee yammaneee yammaneee aaa… (Kai alos aptugetu) (x4)
Kai alos aptugetu (many times)…

##6. What the heck is this text supposed to say? Well, as per a comment to the Italian translation, this SHOULD be the final chorus of Aristophanes' The Wasps, which reads:

ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
τοῦ θαλασσίου ,
πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον
καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου,
καρίδων ἀδελφοί·
ταχὺν πόδα κυκλοσοβεῖτε,
καὶ τὸ Φρυνίχειον
ἐκλακτισάτω τις, ὅπως
ἰδόντες ἄνω σκέλος ὤζωσιν
οἱ θεαταί.

Or in Modern Greek as per Thrasibulo Stavru's translation:

Ω αδερφάκια των γαρίδω
και θαλασσινού πατέρα
ξακουσμένα εσείς παιδιά,
δώστε πήδους στ' ακρογιάλι,
μπρος, χορό στην αμμουδιά!

Με γοργό ρυθμό ένα γύρο
δώστε μια, να πάει το πόδι
σαν του Φρύνιχου ψηλά,
κι οι θεατές που θα το βλέπουν
να φωνάζουν οπ λαλά.

But is this the actual text? Well, «Ammaneee yammaneee yammaneee aaa» is clearly "musical gibberish"; the first half of each section can be seen in that text, more or less:

Ay o megalonuma tekna | ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
Tou talassiou | τοῦ θαλασσίου,
Pedate para famaton | πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον
Kai tin alos | καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς…
Karidon adelfoi aptugetu | καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου…
Karidon adelfoi | καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Kai tin alos aptugetu | καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου.

The next-to-last line of each section is καρίδων ἀδελφοί, and the last one is clearly ὦ θάλαττα, but the rest? Where does it come from? It's nothing like the remaining part of the chorus! Possible Greek orthography:

Este o palai pothontes | Ἔστε ὦ παλαὶ ποθῶντες
Emeis nun ekeino | Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνο
Alkimoi de maxa-ais | Ἀλκιμοὶ δὲ μαξαῖς
Kai kat autō | Καὶ κὰτ αὐτὸ
Tuto monon andres | Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες
Alkotatoi | Ἀλκωτάτοι

In fact, I suspect someone doesn't know chi is not X, and maxais is actually μαχαῖς, thus Ἄλκιμοι δὲ μαχαῖς "Brave (m. pl.) in battles". Googling that line leads me to another chorus in the Wasps (https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0...) which reads:

ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες ἡμεῖς ἄλκιμοι μὲν ἐν χοροῖς, 1060
ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις,
καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ δὴ τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες ἀλκιμώτατοι:
πρίν ποτ᾽ ἦν πρὶν ταῦτα, νῦν δ᾽
οἴχεται, κύκνου τ᾽ ἔτι πολιώτεραι δὴ
αἵδ᾽ ἐπανθοῦσιν τρίχες. 1065
ἀλλὰ κἀκ τῶν λειψάνων δεῖ
τῶνδε ῥώμην νεανικὴν σχεῖν:
ὡς ἐγὼ τοὐμὸν νομίζω
γῆρας εἶναι κρεῖττον ἢ πολλῶν
κικίννους νεανιῶν καὶ
σχῆμα κεὐρυπρωκτίαν. 1070

Alright, so:

Este o palai pothontes | Ἔστε (??) ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες
Emeis nun ekeino | Ἡμεῖς (from l. 1060) νῦν ἐκεῖνο (??)
Alkimoi de maxa-ais | Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις (from l. 1060)
Kai kat autō | Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ (from l. 1062)
Tuto monon andres | Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες
Alkotatoi | Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι (from l. 1062)

Googling νῦν ἐκεῖνο leads me to https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0... which reads:

εἰπέ μοι τί μέλλομεν κινεῖν ἐκείνην τὴν χολήν,
ἥνπερ, ἡνίκ᾽ ἄν τις ἡμῶν ὀργίσῃ τὴν σφηκιάν;
νῦν ἐκεῖνο νῦν ἐκεῖνο 405
τοὐξύθυμον, ᾧ κολαζόμεσθα,
κέντρον †ἐντέτατ᾽ ὀξύ†.
ἀλλὰ θαἰμάτια βαλόντες ὡς τάχιστα, παιδία,
θεῖτε καὶ βοᾶτε, καὶ Κλέωνι ταῦτ᾽ ἀγγέλλετε,
καὶ κελεύετ᾽ αὐτὸν ἥκειν 410
ὡς ἐπ᾽ ἄνδρα μισόπολιν
ὄντα κἀπολούμενον, ὅτι
τόνδε λόγον ἐσφέρει,
μὴ δικάζειν δίκας.

I wonder if the νῦν ἐκεῖνο is from line 405 and the Ἔστε is actually supposed to be the Εἰπέ of l. 403 or the θεῖτε of l. 409.
##7. At any rate, this is a random mashup which probably doesn't mean much. The text seems to be:

Ammaneee yammaneee yammaneee aaa… (x4)

Ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
Τοῦ θαλασσίου,
Πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον (pron. famaton)
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου (pron. aptugetu)…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (pron. aptugetu).
Ἔστε, ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες,
Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνο,
Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις (pron. maksaaais)
Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ.
Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες (Lady: Tonomonon andres)
Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Ὦ θάλαττα!

Ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
Τοῦ θαλασσίου,
Πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον (pron. famaton)
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου (pron. aptugetu)…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (pron. aptugetu).
Ἔστε (pron. Ese this time), ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες,
Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνο,
Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις (pron. maksa-ís μαξαΐς)
Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ.
Τοῦτο (Pron. Tono because the lady apparently has a problem with tuto) μόνον ἄνδρες
Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Ὦ θάλαττα!

Ammaneee yammaneee yammaneee aaa… (x4)
Aa…
Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (x4)…
Ammaneee yammaneee yammaneee aaa… (Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου, Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου) (x4)
Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (x8)…

##8. Tentative English version:

Ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα | Come ye, o great-named children
Τοῦ θαλασσίου, | Of [this] sea-dweller,
Πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον | Leap ye onto the sand
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς… | And the beach of the sea…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου… | Brothers of the shrimps… barren…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί, | Brothers of the shrimps,
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου. | And the beach of the barren sea.
Ἔστε, ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες, | Be, o ye who were of old,
Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνο, | We now this[1],
Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις | And brave in the battles
Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ | And because of this
Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες | Alone, of men
Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι. | The bravest.
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί, | Brothers of the shrimps,
Ὦ θάλαττα! | O sea!

[1]I wish this line weren't there. In the original, there was no "be" or "ye", and from "O pálai" to "mákhais" it was "O we who were since long ago […] and brave in the battles".

MickGMickG    Mar, 20/07/2021 - 12:27

[@Flora 40] et [@psq] voilà. Quel désastre :).

Flora LamaFlora Lama    Mar, 20/07/2021 - 12:51

Wow! I knew something definetely went wrong in the transliteration, but since i am not an expert i couldn't explain why and how. Thank you so much, MickG!

MickGMickG    Mar, 20/07/2021 - 12:56

You're welcome!

Btw, the pronunciation that's being used for Greek is mostly the one taught in Italian high schools, aside from ἄγ' read ai and the other mispronunciations, so every letter is always pronounced the same way aside from ου being read u (meaning ει αι οι υι are diphthongs), θ is pronounced t, χ is k (well, except they're reading it ks here), φ is f, η is basically the same as ε, and υ… well, AFAIK in schools they make it either i or a French u / German ü, here they're reading it as u (like Greek ου and French ou).

Flora LamaFlora Lama    Mar, 20/07/2021 - 13:00

You should know that in the ears of a Greek the Erasmian pronounciation sounds very weird . Especially when the consonants change as well, as you say here.

psqpsq    Mar, 20/07/2021 - 13:22

Thanks for all! 😊

FaryFary    Mié, 28/07/2021 - 12:41

[@Alberto Scotti], will you edit the lyrics yourself? Greek lyrics should be written in Greek letters.

MickGMickG    Mié, 28/07/2021 - 15:02

[@Alberto Scotti] Here is the Greek spelling of the lyrics, so you can easily edit them:

Ἄμμανεεε ἄμμανεε ἄμμανεε ααα… (x4)

Ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
Τοῦ θαλασσίου,
Πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου.
Ἐστέ, ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες
-Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνό (φαμεν)-,
Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις,
Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ
Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες
Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι,
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Ὦ θάλαττα!

Ἄγ᾽ ὦ μεγαλώνυμα τέκνα
Τοῦ θαλασσίου,
Πηδᾶτε παρὰ ψάμαθον
Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί… ἀτρυγέτου…
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Ἐστέ, ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες
-Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνό (φαμεν)-,
Ἡμεῖς νῦν ἐκεῖνο,
Ἄλκιμοι δ᾽ ἐν μάχαις,
Καὶ κατ᾽ αὐτὸ
Τοῦτο μόνον ἄνδρες
Ἀλκ[ιμ]ώτατοι,
Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
Ὦ θάλαττα!

Ἄμμανεεε ἄμμανεε ἄμμανεε ααα… (x4)
Ἆ ἆ…
Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (x4)…
Ἄμμανεεε ἄμμανεε ἄμμανεε ααα… (Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου, Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου) (x4)
Καὶ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου (x8)…

FaryFary    Vie, 30/07/2021 - 15:34

I edited the lyrics.

MickGMickG    Vie, 30/07/2021 - 21:52

The title should be Θάλαττα, by the way.

Also, as I added my translation, I noticed the second big section is missing a line, precisely the one in brackets below:

Καρίδων ἀδελφοί,
[Καὶ θῖν᾽ ἁλὸς ἀτρυγέτου.]
Ἐστέ, ὦ πάλαι ποτ᾽ ὄντες

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