Ona mechtaet [svalit' iz SSSR]) (Она мечтает [свалить из СССР]) (अंग्रेज़ी में अनुवाद)

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Ona mechtaet [svalit' iz SSSR]) (Она мечтает [свалить из СССР])

Она не любит дневной свет,
Принципиально не читает газет,
Она чужда любых сфер,
Она мечтает свалить из СССР.
 
Ей надо встретить принца из далёкой страны,
Он снится ей и ночью и днем.
И каждый день наполнен состояньем войны,
И вот уже 15 долгих лет она мечтает о нём.
 
Она выводит собак,
Она идёт как на войну в кабак,
Она не курит и не пьёт,
Она раскидывает сети, замирает и ждёт.
 
Она не любит читать книг,
Но изучает иностранный язык.
Ей тридцать пять, ну и что ?
Она не хочет понять, что этот поезд ушёл.
 
crimson_anticscrimson_antics द्वारा सोम, 17/06/2013 - 02:13 को जमा किया गया
आख़िरी बार बुध, 09/04/2014 - 23:46 को barsiscevbarsiscev द्वारा संपादित
अंग्रेज़ी में अनुवादअंग्रेज़ी
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She Dreams to Break Out of the USSR

संस्करण: #1#2#3
She isn’t fond of daylight,
out of principle, she doesn't read newspapers. 1
Everything is outside of her purview, 2
She dreams to break out of the USSR
 
She desires to meet the prince of a faraway land.
And she dreams of him day and night.
Even though each day feels like war
For the past 15 years she's been dreaming of him!
 
She takes the dogs out,
Her frequent trips to restaurants end like a war
She refuses to smoke and drink,
She casts her nets and waits patiently. 3
 
She doesn’t like to read books,
And yet she studies foreign language.
So what if she’s 35?
And she refuses to understand that her train out of here is long gone.
 
  • 1. This is weird in English and this fixes contextual issues.
  • 2. She doesn’t conform to the norm
  • 3. I think it refers to her trying to lure people into helping her get out of the USSR
To me, music is a form of speech, and just like speech, music should be heard to all regardless of barriers in place. So by translating you're letting other people open up to a world that is alien to them, a world where many who listen to the Russian, German and French music I listen to, is not strange or weird because they do not understand what the singer is singing. By having translations music can share cultural and political ideas, or really just ideas, around without barrier, and allow for discussion over meaning and purpose instead of trivial pursuit.
Vladimir4757Vladimir4757 द्वारा बुध, 08/05/2019 - 13:33 को जमा किया गया
आख़िरी बार सोम, 13/05/2019 - 18:28 को Vladimir4757Vladimir4757 द्वारा संपादित
लेखक के कमेन्ट:

I am on my phone doing this, so this is a bit awkward. This song deserves a Native English take and the Vlad treatment. Enjoy, this is my interpretation of this song not relplacing original lyrics. I think this is a great interpretation and translation, my phone feels like it is 2990 degrees and my battery went from 100% to 70% but it was worth it.

कमेन्ट
BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 21:16

Lol. It's a bit perverse analogy especially given you'd like me to experiment by self-mutilation. I'm neither admirer nor proponent of US politics. My main point is that Putin isn't worth your defense. The moment he ordered or sanctioned murder of journalists, built yet another palace, married yet another wife...his moral ground was forever lost.
And in this lifetime, I can't forgive him Trump.
If Putin wanted to be forever ensconced in history, he could have forged an alliance with an intelligent leader and they could have changed the world that is presently tittering on extinction mainly due to the greed. You need to open your eyes - what else is there but sanctions - war? Mind you, who is hurt by sanctions - yep, same damn people following their demagogues. Everywhere.

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 06:36

What this is all about is the struggle of imperialists for world domination,
or of constant struggles over the redivision of the world into zones of influence.
As a simple, wage-dependent person, you should not go for any of them.
What should be considered is the right of peoples to self-determination.
If Belarussians, Ukrainians do understand themselves as their own people, they have the right to their own state.
The internationally recognized borders of the state are invulnerable.
If the population of Crimea wants to belong to Russia, then they should be allowed to,
but after a democratic and fair poll.
Under the circumstances of a military occupation one can not assume a democratic and fair poll to be conducted.

Dora VysotskayaDora Vysotskaya    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 11:41
Hansi K_Lauer wrote:

What this is all about is the struggle of imperialists for world domination,
or of constant struggles over the redivision of the world into zones of influence.
As a simple, wage-dependent person, you should not go for any of them.
What should be considered is the right of peoples to self-determination.
If Belarussians, Ukrainians do understand themselves as their own people, they have the right to their own state.
The internationally recognized borders of the state are invulnerable.
If the population of Crimea wants to belong to Russia, then they should be allowed to,
but after a democratic and fair poll.
Under the circumstances of a military occupation one can not assume a democratic and fair poll to be conducted.

The Belarusians, Ukrainians and Russians clearly are brothers that nobody doubts but I doubt very much that Ukraine agrees. Belarus and Russia are sisters, in fact in my country not all speak Belarusian. Everything is in Russian, why? Because Lukashenko wanted it this way. We have the right to keep and speak our own language, to not control our emails, to prevent violence in the streets ...

I do not hate the Russian government, but what did they do with Chernobyl? They hid it. If it were not for the Swedes, they would still be covering it. Many people died, my parents died of radiation. What did the Russian and Ukrainian government do then? Nothing, but don't complain about something that happened in the past.

The only thing Ukraine does is complain about anything. We have been holding Lukashenko since 1994, when I was born. I have not known another form of government in Belarus and that is quite sad. But who do we choose? Now we are much better. We have a dictatorship, yes, but tell me one perfect country. I consider Ukrainians and Russians my "brothers" but I do not like the whiners and Ukraine is. Donetsk was a beautiful city and now it is destroyed. Do you think that with a buffoon like Zelenski you fix it? They are always giving news of Kiev as if the others did not exist. Do you think they have the right to ban us from going to Eurovision? No. The song of Jamala, I am half Crieman Tatar and I knew the language, it is necessary to remember what happened with the Tartars in 1944?? I do not think so. My maternal grandparents suffered what the song says. They were deported while others were killed but that is past. It's as if a Serbian was singing about Srebrenica or a German about Nacism. That is past. They live from that, the Ukrainians live from the past and no, the present has to be lived to build the future. Since you mention Crimea, they have always said loud and clear that they want to be Russians. Let Kiev leave us alone, we do not want to be Ukrainians, we want to be Russians.

For Russia Ukraine and Belarus are his "arms and legs". With Crimea, Russia is securing a strategic position. Putin wants to recover the old power of the USSR but he can not be denied that he is intelligent. Crimea is important by the port of Sevastopol, which houses the main base of the Russian fleet in the Black Sea. This sea is an important strategic point, since it would allow access to the various adjoining territories; Secondly, control over ports and commercial routes would give the power to obstruct commerce and energy supplies (it is a territory crossed by a multitude of energy transport pipes); Finally, Russia could greatly influence regions that share a common history with Russia.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 12:12

Dora, what you say made sense to me. Yet, I can't help but see your bias to Ukraine. So the objective by the evil was achieved, borders blurred, Ukraine and Ukrainians were declared enemy, feud established, attention highjacked. That's how we are divided. Instead, of all this bullshit, Ukraine and Russia should worry how polluted is Black Sea and what can be done about it... Sol already said how Ukraine is trending, but he didn't mention how Russia feeds this. But it isn't Ukraine nor Russia, but people who let few in power to divide, distract, and destroy. If few Bolsheviks could come up with the revolution, so can we - except now, it's the existential fight.

vevvevvevvev    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 13:41

The revolution can not be done at will. The revolution is an objective process. The revolution in Russia was maturing for several centuries, and the Bolsheviks only seized the moment and headed Russian society by proposing their program.

JadisJadis    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 15:55

The Crimean Tatars had no special problems while Crimea was Ukrainian. But since Crimea was occupied by Putin, now they have problems. Some of them even fled to France, I saw them demonstrating in the company of Ukrainians in Paris. Do you think they were happy to do so ? And about Donetsk, as far as I know, there were no special problems there neither, until the Russian army started its mess there (and said they were not implied, of course). We have also refugees from the Donbass in France. I guess that they had never thought to flee to France before, why should they have ?
 
Now for Lukashenko, if you're glad with him, that's your problem, we don't want to interfere, but we just wonder why Lukashenko still forbids to make inquiries about the consequences of Chernobyl, while Belarus suffered the most from the catastrophe (more than Ukraine, and more than Russia ; heard of Professor Yury Bandazhevsky ?) Why ? Well, of course because then it was USSR, and critics of the Soviet system remains forbidden for some old apparachiks. The catastrophe was the result of Soviet orders, not of Ukrainian orders, and the Soviets tried to hide it, as usually.

vevvevvevvev    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 16:33

About the problems of the Crimean Tatars in the Crimea, someone misled you.
People left Donbass because there is a war going on there, which Ukraine can stop simply by ceasing to shoot.

St. SolSt. Sol    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 16:45

Why don't you personally visit Crimea and ask people there directly? Many European MP's did: they met and talked with local people there without any restrictions and wrote the truth as they saw it. Oh, but your "free" media doesn't show such things to you, did you ever wonder why? Oh, and occupation of Crimea is finally over, it rejoined the motherland.

Dora VysotskayaDora Vysotskaya    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 19:23
Jadis wrote:

The Crimean Tatars had no special problems while Crimea was Ukrainian. But since Crimea was occupied by Putin, now they have problems. Some of them even fled to France, I saw them demonstrating in the company of Ukrainians in Paris. Do you think they were happy to do so ? And about Donetsk, as far as I know, there were no special problems there neither, until the Russian army started its mess there (and said they were not implied, of course). We have also refugees from the Donbass in France. I guess that they had never thought to flee to France before, why should they have ?
 
Now for Lukashenko, if you're glad with him, that's your problem, we don't want to interfere, but we just wonder why Lukashenko still forbids to make inquiries about the consequences of Chernobyl, while Belarus suffered the most from the catastrophe (more than Ukraine, and more than Russia ; heard of Professor Yury Bandazhevsky ?) Why ? Well, of course because then it was USSR, and critics of the Soviet system remains forbidden for some old apparachiks. The catastrophe was the result of Soviet orders, not of Ukrainian orders, and the Soviets tried to hide it, as usually.

What can I say if I haven't seen any other government? I can't opine about it. As I said Belarus suffered a lot Chernobyl but that was Ukrainian fault. The engineers wanted to experiment and the plant exploded. I am from Bragin a city Belarus 60 kilometers from the Chernobyl nuclear plant. The Soviet engineers were guilty and who are, the most harmed? We are, WE the Belarussians!!!! But as I said it's past. And again Crimea wanted to be Russian. Now there are problems because Ukraine doesn't want the sovereign of Russia in Crimea. Donetsk also wanted to be Russian. Until the beginning of the war in course, the Dombás was the most densely populated of all the regions of the Ukraine, aside from the capital, Kiev. Before the war, the city of Donetsk - then the fifth largest city in Ukraine - was considered the unofficial capital of Dobass.

I love my country, it's beautiful. Lukashenko, I said, we also do not have internet, there is a death penalty, the Belarussian was hardly spoken. It is very easy to say without living it. There are other worse than Lukashenko but how can you say without having lived otherwise? In Belarus you are gay and they kill you. Lukashenko already said it better to be a dictator than a gay. But our culture is like that, we are closed people and not many of us like gay people. But I love my country and its people and I'm proud of being Belarusian!!!!!. Many Belarusians consider Lukashenko his father, but that is other debate...

St. SolSt. Sol    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 13:53

"The internationally recognized borders of the state are invulnerable."
The hypocrisy of this statement is deafening. After NATO bombing and dismembering of Yugoslavia, after cutting out the historical birthplace of Serbia (Kosovo) and giving it to Muslim migrants without any referendum, any talk of "internationally recognized borders" and "international law" is moot.
.
"If the population of Crimea wants to belong to Russia, then they should be allowed to, but after a democratic and fair poll."
Sure, after Kosovo is returned to Serbia with apologies, rebuilding, and full reparations from the "international community", the repeat referendum in Crimea might be on the table, though its outcome will be certain regardless. Now go and petition your govt. to restore internationally recognized borders of Serbia, since you seem to be overly concerned that Crimean population voting to rejoin Russia might have been forced to do so and didn't get a fair chance to express their wish (ha-ha, read the history of Crimea first and how it became a part of Ukraine in 1954 against its population wishes).

vevvevvevvev    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 13:39

Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc, etc ...

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 18:33
St. Sol wrote:

"The internationally recognized borders of the state are invulnerable."
The hypocrisy of this statement is deafening.

@Hansi K_Lauer
Well, people in USA or in the West never realize how ridiculous actions of their governments look in the eyes of the rest of the world. Yes, sure, everyone will cry out – you’re just a brain-washed from Russia, Serbia, Iraq, you name it. But there is no justification for bombing of European country, Yugoslavia. It only happened because Yugoslavia had bad luck being part of pro-Soviet bloc. It’s not about cause, it’s about gain. Just like at the beginning of WW2 Jews asked Western World to act on genocide by Nazis, they were totally ignored. Millions were brutally killed. U.S. government waited years before joining the war in Europe, because this move just wasn’t popular at home. Without declaring the war USA performed secret bombing of Cambodia (which in my understanding was its ally in Vietnam war) killing half of million and leaving millions homeless. More bombs were dropped there than on Nazi Germany! A million was killed during Iraq war. Because Bad Guy had chemical weapons. U.S. used chemical weapons en masse in Vietnam, nuclear in Japan. The list of geopolitical games and proxy wars in smaller countries could go forever. I would suspect that in democratic countries people would stand up against such abuse of power, but it is always – This Guy is Evil, let’s bomb him, put him to trial and kill hundreds thousands in the process. Justice should be served. Democracy should be established at all costs, no matter if people of bombed country want it or not. Probably they want their family members be alive. Once Bad Guy is dead, let’s find another Bad Guy. People do not realize that for any ruler it is easier to fight enemies from different countries (since they are bad de facto, and he/she would look good), rather than to address domestic issues (corruption in Russia, race issues in USA, etc). And it always was like this, since League of Nations, which was created to protect weak from strong, but in truth acted only in the interest of powers.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 22:45

Aghh. Too much generalization and not enough...
Never take one side arguing their means to be right or wrong.
Some argue dropping nuke on Japan saved lives and served as deterrent to Russia... Maybe so, but vaporized innocents and sick generations of innocents are the ones who suffered. So if we stick to this example, what possessed Japan to be on hitler's side, what possessed normal people to become kamikaze pilots?
Also, nuclear tests were conducted next to civilian population, even though effects of radiation were already known. Also, agent orange use in Vietnam - harmed US forces just the same... Sooo, Nobody defends US for its transgressions.
But, you tend to omit facts like genicide in Yugoslavia. People who lived side by side, all of sudden killed their neighbor, raped, tortured, and buried people in mass graves. Who promoted, nursed, incited them? When will it be clear to people that this isn't in their interest?
We can stand up to this hatred...if we want to...

Vladimir4757Vladimir4757    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 13:17

Just on the topic of deterring Russia, it didn't deter them at all, in fact, they found out about the plans for the nuclear bomb and shortly revealed their own, so honestly, by that point, we walked away scotch free for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. The only reason NATO or the West can get away with the revolting shit we do is because of victors rights, or just "Bigger stick diplomacy". If a nation loses a battle no one sympathizes, but if the people all of the sudden jump on and praise them. So never forget that to the eyes of a world organization who believes in "peacekeeping" so long as you win the battle and horribly maim the enemy to the point they cannot complain about war crimes and that there was a moral position to justify your "means to an end act", all of a sudden carpet bombing the fuck out of a developing nation somehow no longer is that bad.

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 01:54
St.Sol wrote:

Why don't you personally visit Crimea and ask people there directly? Many European MP's did ...

The European MP's who followed the invitation to witness the poll after the annexation of the Crimea by Russia were throughout members of extremist right wing parties (except for a few disoriented German leftwing party members) who support the Putin agenda to destabilize the European Union.

St.Sol wrote:

"The internationally recognized borders of the state are invulnerable."
The hypocrisy of this statement is deafening.

Territorial integrity is the principle under international law that prohibits states from the use of force against the "territorial integrity or political independence" of another state. It is enshrined in Article 2(4) of the UN Charter and has been recognized as customary international law. Conversely it states that imposition by force of a border change is an act of aggression.

The international imperialism violates this rule which the United Nations have agreed on, or invokes it, just as their policies require it.
It's not a way to say "Your imperialists violated it, so I support my imperialist to do the same".
As I wrote in my previous statement, as a wage dependant citizens or small traders or intellectuals, you name it, we should not support any imperialist's policy, may we live in their country or elsewhere.

To your info: There was a anti war movement against the NATO-war on Yugoslavia in most major German towns, doing regular protest rallyes and demonstrations with many thousands of participants. I was one of them.

St.Sol wrote:

... after cutting out the historical birthplace of Serbia (Kosovo) and giving it to Muslim migrants ...

To say that is nothing but racist agitation from your side.
The population of Kosovo has changed during the centuries from a Serbian majority to a Albanian majority.
That's what happens in history. No ethnic group "owns" a territory of this earth forever. We have just borrowed it for a certain time.

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 14:51

"The European MP's who followed the invitation to witness the poll after the annexation of the Crimea by Russia were throughout members of extremist right wing parties (except for a few disoriented German leftwing party members) who support the Putin agenda to destabilize the European Union."

Clearly: Ad hominem. You just can't trust these right wingers, and disoriented left wingers, and all these brown people, and all these asiatic barbarians and other untermenshes to tell the truth, right? The burden of a white man (c) must be too heavy for you to bear, despite clothing yourself in progressive ideas. Considering neo-nazi Ukrainian govt. (installed by the West and now the West's favorite tool against Russia), Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions, paying SS veterans state pensions, but at the same time refusing to grant citizenship to nearly halves of their own country non-native, mostly Russian populations (you know: must preserve the racial purity of the nation's blood, can't let something like Kosovo happen to THEM!!!) - the hypocrisy is indeed deafening. As one Russian political commentator once said (paraphrasing): "the exploitative, colonizing essence of Europe has never changed. It is only a matter of time before Hitler is rehabilitated and exonerated in EU, after all most Europeans believe (even without openly admitting it) that he was right, and his only fault is that he failed in his quest." Considering what is happening, I find it hard not to agree.

"Territorial integrity is the principle under international law that prohibits states from the use of force against the "territorial integrity or political independence" of another state. It is enshrined in Article 2(4) of the UN Charter and has been recognized as customary international law. Conversely it states that imposition by force of a border change is an act of aggression...."

Appeal to authority. Clearly an act of aggression against Yugoslavia has occurred as well as border change imposed by force (no polls or referenda of any kind were held in Kosovo, what happened instead was ethnic cleansing of Serbian population from their own land, aided and abetted by people like you and your tax money, whether your supported it or protested - this is irrelevant).

"To your info: There was a anti war movement against the NATO-war on Yugoslavia in most major German towns, doing regular protest rallyes and demonstrations with many thousands of participants. I was one of them."

And the result was? Did your democratic govt. listen to you and change its policy? (ha-ha)

"To say that is nothing but racist agitation from your side.
The population of Kosovo has changed during the centuries from a Serbian majority to a Albanian majority.
That's what happens in history. No ethnic group "owns" a territory of this earth forever. We have just borrowed it for a certain time."

I never said anything racist, just the well known facts. Albania was already a country, but the Albanians settled and established a second one in Kosovo with the help of NATO bombing of yet another Slavic nation. I think the pattern here is undeniable: unite (western) Europe, divide and rule all others.
In a simple test, let me visit you in your house, stay for a few years there as a guest, then bring my family with me, then tell you: you see, the population of your house has changed over time and you are a minority now, that happens in history, you can't own your house forever, I also have needs, and now I need your house all for myself. Surely, based on the Kosovo precedent, you won't dare to say No to my humble request, right? Because if you do, you will be ethnically cleansed with the help of friendly bombing. Do we have a deal?

The burden of a white man must be really hard to bear.

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    गुरु, 16/05/2019 - 21:53
St. Sol wrote:

You just can't trust these right wingers, and disoriented left wingers, and all these brown people, and all these asiatic barbarians and other untermenshes to tell the truth, right?

First of all: terms such as "asiatic barbarians" and "untermenshes" belong to your mindset, not to mine.
"You just can't trust these right wingers ... to tell the truth, right?"
Right!
The right winger parties all over Europe, first of all in Germany which I can assess, prove every day that their policy consists of nothing but lies sedition and disinformation.

St. Sol wrote:

... neo-nazi Ukrainian govt. (installed by the West ...

Let's see ...
Weren't there elections in Ukraine lately, and even before Putin unlawfully occupied the Crimea?
Was the government installed by the West or was it elected by the Ukrainean people?
Weren't there regular elections in Ukraine in October 2013 and just now in April this year, with more than one candidate?
When has Russia seen this last time? Ever?

"Neo-Nazi government" ... was Poroshenko a "neo-nazi"? (we aren't talking about Selenskyj yet ...)
Well, if you say "nazi" I suppose you mean "fascism".
Some of the benchmarks of fascism is violent oppression of any type of opposition, de facto elimination of free speach/press and abolition of democratic rights.
If we hear this which state do we think of? Ukraine ? ... Or Russia?

"Humanrights.ch" has a long list of violations of human rights in Russia, and a very short one about the Ukraine.
Russia occupies rank 148 in the ranking of press freedom 2018, Ukraine rank 102. (Reporter ohne Grenzen)
Russia ranks 95th (out of 126) in the Fundamental Rights category in 2018, and Ukraine ranks 77th (Rule of law index)
So which country's government is closer to fascism, Russia or Ukraine?
Whoever gets more "likes" is the winner! Wink smile

Btw.: Putin is going to cut off Russia from the www.
Too bad we soon won't see you here any longer. Cry smile
He must be really afraid the Russian population getting informed about his lies and ruthless actions with the Russian population ...

St. Sol wrote:

Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions,

That sounds very much like RT-fake news.
Please provide a proof for that, but a proof that is not created in Kremlin disinformation workshops ... !

St. Sol wrote:

"the exploitative, colonizing essence of Europe has never changed. It is only a matter of time before Hitler is rehabilitated and exonerated in EU, after all most Europeans believe (even without openly admitting it) that he was right, and his only fault is that he failed in his quest."

Precisely that's what I meant ...
🤮

St. Sol wrote:

And the result was? Did your democratic govt. listen to you and change its policy? (ha-ha)

Of course they didn't.
The denial of the Nato-war wasn't widespread enough.
They have all the media under their control spreading propaganda about the cruelty of the Serbs and the justification of the attack.
They are imperialists, after all.
That you even taunt the fight for a just matter shows how arrogant and ignorant you are.
Shame on you, St. Sol.

St. Sol wrote:

I never said anything racist, just the well known facts.

Of course you have.
You said: "giving it to Muslim migrants".
You started agitational propaganda against ethnic Albanians by pointing out that their religion (if they practice any at all) is Islam.
That is deliberate discrimination.
The next type of discrimination and agitation is to call the Shqipni population of Kosovo "migrants".
That is utter nonsense and distorting history.
Kosovo always had an ethnic Albanian population, even when the Serbs first conquered it in the 12th/13th century.
250 years later the Serbs retreated from Kosovo completely and it belonged to the Osman Empire for 450 years, until the Serbs conquered it again in the Serbo-Turkish war of 1876. Later the Serbian government had to entice Serbs to settle in Kosovo, because nobody wanted to go there, because it was so poor. By the means of ethnic cleansing they tried to deminsh the Alabanian population, including the killing of 10.000 Albanian civilians in 1912.
So the Shqipni (Albanians) always were in Kosovo, much much longer than the Serbs ever and they were anything but "migrants"!
(You could rather call the Serbs occupants of Kosovo)
Throughout history the Shqipni have mainly suffered from the Serbs.
Nevertheless the enforced separation of Kosovo from Serbia by the West was an act of imperialism.
Although, had there been a poll of the local population the outcome would have been the same.
So I'd regard it as a minor crime of imperialism.

St. Sol wrote:

In a simple test, let me visit you in your house, stay for a few years there as a guest, then bring my family with me, ...

You are welcome, as long as you pay the rent ...
Tongue smile

St. SolSt. Sol    मंगल, 21/05/2019 - 14:31

Wow, the Western iron curtain must be really strong and the fog of Russophobic propaganda must be really thick and dense in Bundesrepublic. Of course I knew that before, I just didn't expect a supposedly progressive person to be so easily manipulated by it. Back to your points:

"You just can't trust these right wingers ... to tell the truth, right?" Right!

Did you know that Russia invited everybody (who wanted to do it) to witness the Crimea referendum without any restrictions? Do you know why most EU MP's (except some Putin's stooges as you call them) refused to come? Because they already had their minds set about it; THEY DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, it is that simple (just like you don't want to know it and keep repeating propaganda lines about "annexation" without even trying to form an informed opinion yourself. I can't say I am surprised though, the non-stop propaganda being fed to you is really slick, and it starts from shifting the frame of the debate so that you don't even have the reference point for informed opinions. Dr. Goebbels must be really proud for his students).

"Neo-Nazi government" ... was Poroshenko a "neo-nazi"? (we aren't talking about Selenskyj yet ...)
Well, if you say "nazi" I suppose you mean "fascism".

You really didn't know? Honestly? Didn't know who planned, funded ($5B figure was openly admitted by US), and executed the Ukr. coup of 2014? Didn't know who set up the training camps and trained the future Ukro-Nazi "rebels" in Poland for the coup? Didn't know who gave them weapons? Didn't know about Ukrainian Social-Nationalist party (not fascist but self-proclaimed Nazi party) whose ideas and heroes (look up Bandera and Shukhevich - currently OFFICIAL national heroes of new Ukraine, and who they were and what they did. Google to your aid) formed the mindset of new "revolutionaries" and whose slogans are now official greetings in Ukraine? ("Україна понад усе" is an exact copy of Nazi: "Deutschland über alles"). Didn't know who and how appointed Poroshenko to be the president? (forget the "elections": Nazi gangs with machine guns and heavy weapons ruled and still rule the land there on the ground, they manned the polling stations, but to keep the appearances they were conveniently renamed "National Guard", the decision to appoint Poroshenko was made in DC not in Ukraine, you didn't know that? the elections where he "won" the absolute majority in the first round with multiple candidates were a total sham, and of course foreign "advisors" counted the votes). Didn't know that Germany's choice for Ukr. pres. appointee (please note that several Western countries were trying to "elect" their own Ukrainian presidential puppet, except Ukraine - nobody asked its people) was Y. Timoshenko, but that wish was overruled by the "senior partner," whose word is final? Poroshenko is a businessman (and an alcoholic): whatever his political convictions were (if any), he had to repeat Nazi slogans and dance the Nazi party line to stay the president. So, perhaps, he was a reluctant Nazi, but Nazi nonetheless; he started the war on Russian population of Donbass, Ukro-Nazis still shell the area and kill women and children there, you didn't know? Ukro-Nazis waging war in Donbass were implicated in human organs trade with EU, you didn't know? So when your elderly relative gets a liver or kidney transplant, the body parts might have come from Russian children, murdered by Ukro-Nazis in Donbass and harvested for parts - you might want to check that beforehand if you care. Hitler would be really proud.

"Humanrights.ch" has a long list of violations of human rights in Russia, and a very short one about the Ukraine."

Willful blindness of "humanrights" doesn't change the facts on the ground: Ukraine now is fully functional Nazi state, and you are willingly or unwillingly supporting it. The centuries-old European dream is at hand: after depopulation of Ukraine, the new, much more worthy and racially pure owners will settle the land; Hitler's dream will be fulfilled.

"Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions,"

You honestly didn't know that? Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia to be exact: You didn't see them parading the central streets of their capitals in full SS uniforms and regalia on evening TV news? Google to your help, since your local TV stations obviously didn't carry these news.

"The denial of the Nato-war wasn't widespread enough. ...
That you even taunt the fight for a just matter shows how arrogant and ignorant you are."

My point exactly: the majority of your and other EU countries and their citizens either supported or were indifferent about the war on Yugoslavia. Killing foreigners in foreign lands doesn't concern an average EU citizen and it never did. Also, after highlighting so many holes in your knowledge of the current situation, I will let others decide who is ignorant here. As for me, I am rather old and saw many things in this life you can't possibly imagine. Yet, Nazi occupation of Ukraine in 2014, planned, aided, and abetted by the West, (Ukraine used to be a beautiful place I visited many times in the old days), will never be forgotten or forgiven.

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 05:04
St. Sol wrote:

Did you know that Russia invited everybody (who wanted to do it) to witness the Crimea referendum without any restrictions? Do you know why most EU MP's (except some Putin's stooges as you call them) refused to come?

Of course I know that. Different from Russia our media is not government controlled and they offer a quite widespread array of opinions. Unlike Russia there are critical reports and opinions about the government on TV and in the press.

Reputable members of non-extremist European parties refused to participate in the referendum on Crimea, because the whole thing was illegal and with their participation they would have legalized it.
Kremlin placed a bait, but the rats smelled the poison. Too bad for them ...
Who gladly accepted the invitation were members of the notorious wellknown rightwing lepers of Europe, such as "Flams Belang" (Belgium), "Front National" (France), "FPÖ" (Austria), Lega Nord (Italy) AfD (Germany) and other obnoxious fascist individuals.

About Ukraine:
Of course there are fascists and fascist organizations in Ukraine. In 2014 there even were fascists members of Ukrainean government (Jazenyuk administration). But they were in a clear minority.
That means: the government as such never was fascist.
Of course Western governments and secret services supported Janukowych's overthrow. Of course they didn't like his turn towards the Kremlin. But that are matters of the Ukrainean people to deal with.

St. Sol wrote:

he started the war on Russian population of Donbass,

BS! Some Russian Millionaire hired mercenaries and soldiers of the Russian army officially "on leave" (Kremlin: "We can't know what they do in their vacations..."), had them militarily equipped with the support of the Putin administration and sent them to infiltrate in Donbass and start provocations on Ukrainean troops and policemen.

St. Sol wrote:

Ukro-Nazis waging war in Donbass were implicated in human organs trade with EU, you didn't know? So when your elderly relative gets a liver or kidney transplant, the body parts might have come from Russian children, murdered by Ukro-Nazis in Donbass and harvested for parts - you might want to check that beforehand if you care.

Even bigger BS! In Germany thre are no bodyparts of uncertain origin transplanted, and I can't imagine that for any other EU-country. Give evidendence and source for such cases, or I call you an agitator and a liar.
There are very many examples known of Kremlin propaganda lies about things that allegedly have happened in Donbass.
Whoever is brainwashed enough believes every single one of them.

St. Sol wrote:

The centuries-old European dream is at hand: after depopulation of Ukraine, the new, much more worthy and racially pure owners will settle the land; Hitler's dream will be fulfilled.

You are completely paranoid, Mr. St. Sol!
Go see a doctor!

St. Sol wrote:

"Baltic state govts. (all EU members) promoting celebrations and commemorations of local SS legions,"
You honestly didn't know that? Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia to be exact: You didn't see them parading the central streets of their capitals in full SS uniforms and regalia on evening TV news? Google to your help, since your local TV stations obviously didn't carry these news."

I have asked you to prove this statement by showing valid sources.
Don't even think you can get away by saying "Google to your help"!
That's not a way to lead a political polemic.
That's not how it works!
Either you prove it by providing valid verifiable credible sources, or you'll be called a professional agitator and a liar!

St. Sol wrote:

the majority of your and other EU countries and their citizens either supported or were indifferent about the war on Yugoslavia. Killing foreigners in foreign lands doesn't concern an average EU citizen and it never did.

Again you despise the anti-imperialist fight of the European people and you try to hold the people responsible for the actions of their governments. That's nothing but a call for war of people against people, and you show clearly that you are supporting Russian imperialism.
Are you one of those St. Petersburg Putin trolls, Mr. St. Sol?

You do never stop to accuse everybody who is of a different opinion or who critizises Russian imperialism a Nazi.
This is about YOUR real Russian nazis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV4v31azgQM

IgeethecatIgeethecat    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 05:15

Hans and St., I beg you - “stop it”, please or take it “PM”

JadisJadis    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 06:53

Strange that the Russians can't bear that the Ukrainians (and others) had their own country, their own government and elected whoever they want. I guess they haven't quite got the signification of the word "independence" yet.

But when you look at who are the best friends of Russia by now, it's quite interesting : Bashar Al Assad, one of the greatest war criminals in the world (after Milosevic, who was nearly an angel compared to him) ; the mollahs in Tehran (criminals, fanatics, trying to stifle the Iranian society by all means, and to destroy Israel of course) ; Maduro (incompétent dictator who made a ruin out of his rather wealthy country) ; Kadyrov, the Butcher of Caucasus ; Kim Jong Un (more or less) and the Chinese leaders... All of them very sympathetic people.

Putin also supports Transnistria, where the ex-Soviet mafia reigns, in order to better encircle Ukraine... Now look at all the former communist countries who knew the Russian power in the last decades : which one of them wants to be on the Russian side, except Belarus ? Ukraine ? Poland ? The Czechs (1968) ? The Slowaks ? The Balts ? Hungary (1956) ? Romania ? Bulgaria ? Ex-DDR ? Georgia ? Chechnya ? Ah yes, Armenia, because they fear the Turks even more than the Russians. Isn't it strange that all those countries flee Russia like a plague ? Isn't it strange that precisely the ones of had to know the Russian best are the ones who run faster and further of them ?

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 15:43

Yes, yes: unite the Europe, divide and rule all others, separate brothers, put them against each other, never let them unite: that would be too much of a threat, right? Plans to split Ukraine from Russia existed since the early 20th century (actually 19th), Communists did a lot to help that, but even they couldn't have imagined what was done to "independent" Ukraine that they created - as everybody should know "Ukraine" never existed as a country until 1920's, its language was artificially created from Malorussian Russian dialect to eliminate most of semblance to Russian language by the western "helpers", its "new" history is all fake, apart from the true history of long and repeated treachery and betrayal, etc. (all heil the chocolate king or whatever his appointed successor is. Nazis? we don't see any damn Nazis there!)

Alexander FreiAlexander Frei    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 13:34

Ох уж эти политики, их законы и СМИ,
Но ничего!
Они вправят людям куда надо мозги

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 16:43

Oh, God. What is that joke about monkeys - did Ukrainians come from Russians or Russians from Ukrainians?
There is no support of anyone here, at least I don't think, to any fascist tendencies of any leader including Ukrainian.
Unite Europe - yes, although nobody invaded Greece at its weak moment. Germany was united.
Who made USSR break - western influence had nothing to do with this!
Sol,
why are you sidetracking into the old strife? Admit it - Russian government is corrupt and divisive enough on its own. Let's concentrate on people that struggle to make ends meet - how do we get everyone [you first] to stop defending the limited accomplishments each leadership had and concentrate on how to stop this astonishing corruption and lack of attention to the environment?

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 18:16

I respect your personal opinion, but you must surely know that "the entire democratic world community supports and stands behind Ukraine and its (Nazi - SS) government in its struggle against "Russian aggression", right? So you can't honestly deny that the entire Western democracy and Ukrainian (Nazi - SS) government are the feathers of the same flock, right? They (the collective West) all support their own (Nazi - SS) Ukrainian creation, they planned this for years, they set up Ukr. Nazi training camps in Poland to prepare the cannon fodder for the coup, they indoctrinated and brainwashed Ukrainian population with tall tales of EU membership and promises of life of honey and riches (all these are documented facts), and now they are sucking its corpse dry while depopulation of Ukraine proceeds at full speed. And to those who say that Russians can't tolerate independent countries (like Ukraine): they surely can and do, they just won't tolerate Nazi govt. at its borders, ready to put NATO nuclear first-strike capabilities targeting Russia in Kharkov or Donetsk. That should be clear to anybody.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 17:54

To be fair, the first video evidence of the SS symbols carried by the Ukrainian Army I personally saw on the German TV (and it was condemned). Still, the global western support for this is beyond my ken.

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 17:56

Those who planned and executed all this, and those who condemned the results of all this on TV are not the same people, that's all.

JadisJadis    शनि, 18/05/2019 - 07:24

I guess Poroshenko is as much a nazi that I am the Queen of England. He is a businessman and he busied himself with chocolate, until he was elected (by the way, the Roshen chocolate and sweets aren't bad, even if of course they can't be compared with Swiss or Belgian chocolate). In a Russian mind, of course every Ukrainian is a nazi, thanks to Russian propaganda. Well, Putin is not a nazi, but he often behaves worse than the nazis. And of course he lies, lies, lies all the time (KGB school), sometimes so childlishly that you may wonder who in the world could believe him.
(Edit) BTW, when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he didn't hide himself and pretend his troops where not German, as Putin did when he invaded Crimea. Hitler said : here we are and we are German. Putin said no no, it's not us, they are no signs on the soldiers' uniforms. That's a major difference, for sure.

vevvevvevvev    शनि, 18/05/2019 - 08:09

Please stop using expressions like "Russian mind". Apparently you do not know anything about this. And, I beg you, stop repeating propaganda clichés like "...Putin lies, lies, lies...". Putin does not lie any more than any other politician... For example, he never refused Russian military forces in Crimea.
Sorry, could not resist. In my opinion, we need to stop this long, futile, and even harmful discussion.
P.S. Chocolate Roshen really aren't bad Regular smile

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    शनि, 18/05/2019 - 17:18

@vevvey
If you feel bothered by the green dot notifications you just press the "Unsubscribe"-button right above this.
Wink smile

Ivan LudenIvan Luden    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 07:04
vevvev wrote:

Putin does not lie any more than any other politician... For example, he never refused Russian military forces in Crimea.

Oh, stop spreading misinformation here!
On YouTube - a lot of videos in which Putler is lying brazenly:
Putin Evolution lies on the occupation of the Crimea - https://youtu.be/baeIAqC7_A8
Putin's lies about the Russian military in the Crimea - https://youtu.be/iVvFIwoabzA
Putin's lies about Russian Troops in Crimea (English Subtitles) - https://youtu.be/vnpUmoUVPAM
etc etc etc...
Do you have a short memory?

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    शनि, 18/05/2019 - 17:12
Jadis wrote:

... when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he didn't hide himself and pretend his troops where not German, ...

But like all the imperialists before and after him he used a blunt lie to justify the start of a major raid:

Wikipedia wrote:

The Gleiwitz incident was a covert Nazi German attack (SS) on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz on the night of 31 August 1939 (today Gliwice, Poland). The attack is widely regarded as a false flag operation, staged with some two dozen similar German incidents on the eve of the invasion of Poland leading up to World War II in Europe.

Putin tried to justify his invasion of Crimea by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death.
So Putin just had to come and protect them ...
This propaganda legend is maintained in Russia up to the very day, as it seems ...

St. SolSt. Sol    मंगल, 21/05/2019 - 14:58

"Putin tried to justify his invasion of Crimea by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death."

A perfect propaganda example, worth deconstructing word by word:

"Putin tried to justify" - No, he openly acknowledged that up to 25,000 Russian troops were in Crimea continuously and legally (per signed and ratified agreement with Ukraine), well, since the 1850's to protect Russian Black sea navy base and fleet from potential incidents like the 2014 Ukr. coup.

"his invasion of Crimea" - No invasion of any kind happened, troops on the ground did their job and protected the naval assets, and also made sure that Ukro-Nazis didn't interfere in the referendum. No one was killed during the alleged "Russian invasion" of Crimea, unlike orchestrated mass killings during the Ukr. coup, burning dozens of protesters alive in Odessa by Ukro-Nazis, Ukro-Nazi killing Crimean protesters in a bus, returning from Kiev right at the Crimea border crossing, etc.

"by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government" - If one talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi. Hiding behind "allegedly" is like saying: Hitler was a good artist who allegedly (and unjustly) was called a Nazi.

"that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death" - Ukro-Nazis never tried to hide their plans for Russians in Ukraine: Google their favorite slogan during the coup "Москаляку - на гиляку" and many others. In their own words: "Ukraine must be a racially pure state - No Russian, Pole, or Jew will remain there after the "revolution." Now, repeat together with your beloved Ukrainian democratic revolutionaries: Sieg Heil!

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 03:54
st. Sol wrote:

If one talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi.

Putin administration supports ideologically and financially all right wing and pro-fascist Western European parties.
"... talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi."

Ivan LudenIvan Luden    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 07:35
St. Sol wrote:

"by an allegedly Ukrainean Nazi-government" - If one talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and advocates Nazi ideology, I'd say he is a Nazi. Hiding behind "allegedly" is like saying: Hitler was a good artist who allegedly (and unjustly) was called a Nazi. "that planned to beat all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine to death" - Ukro-Nazis never tried to hide their plans for Russians in Ukraine: Google their favorite slogan during the coup "Москаляку - на гиляку" and many others. In their own words: "Ukraine must be a racially pure state - No Russian, Pole, or Jew will remain there after the "revolution." Now, repeat together with your beloved Ukrainian democratic revolutionaries: Sieg Heil!

You also have a short memory?
Then remind you:
"Кто не прыгает, тот чурка!" ("Who does not jump, the chock!" - "chock" is an abusive name for a person from Central Asia) - https://youtu.be/fZNE0OUfscE
(place of action - is Petersburg, allegedly the “cultural capital” of the Russian Federation, the date of posting the video is December 15, 2012)
"Кто не прыгает тот хач!" ("Who does not jump that hach!" - "khach" is an abusive name for a person of Caucasian nationality) - https://youtu.be/5yaDDBea8hI
(place of action - the official capital of the Russian Federation, Moscow, video posted on Nov. 4, 2011)
"Neo-Nazi forum held in St. Petersburg" - https://www.dp.ru/a/2015/03/22/V_Peterburge_proshel_forum/
"The World Congress of the neo-Nazis in St. Petersburg. A photo" - https://hueviebin1.livejournal.com/150663.html
"Convicted neo-Nazi goes free after Russian government partially decriminalizes ‘inciting hate and enmity’"
"Russian Ultra-rightist Political Groups (Including Neo-Nazi Groups)"
etc etc etc...

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 09:59

My dear, you forgot to mention one tiny difference between Russian Nazis and Ukrainian ones: in Russia promoting Nazi ideology is a crime, in Ukraine Nazis are in power and Nazi ideology is the official ideology of the state.

JadisJadis    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 10:18

Just like in Hitler's Germany, being a communist was a crime. As to "Nazi ideology as the official ideology" of Ukraine, I guess even a wooden horse would laugh at such bullshit.

Олег Л.Олег Л.    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 10:46

Ты знаешь, что на Украине коммунистическая идеология запрещена? Да, быть коммунистом - это преступление в нацистской Украине. Зато там можно кричать "хайль" и проводить факельные шествия, как в фашистской Германии, в честь украинского нациста Бандеры.

Ivan LudenIvan Luden    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 11:06

Бандера практически всю войну (с 1941 по 1944 год) просидел в немецком концлагере, фашисты зверски замучили двух его братьев.
Зато нынешняя путлеровская Эрефия - это настоящий правопреемник власовской армии (в которой на стороне нацистов воевало более миллиона человек).
Погуглите, и вы легко найдёте картинки, как советские солдаты во время Парада Победы в 1945 бросают власовский триколор к подножию мавзолея.
Кстати, а вы знаете, сколько Героев Советского Союза воевало в рядах армии Власова?
А вы знаете, в каком городе Эрефии установлен памятник командиру казачьей дивизии СС генералу Краснову?
Украинские нацики, все вместе взятые, на ВСЕХ выборах (президентских или парламентских) получают голосов в 2-3 раза меньше, чем пророссийский кандидат в президенты Украины (фамилия которого - Рабинович).
Национальность нового Президента Украины вам напомнить, или не надо?
Да, Олег, а можно задать вам один личный вопрос:
Вы уже попросили прощения у главы Чечни, героя россии Ахмата Кадырова (того самого, который "своего первого русского убил в 16 лет")?
Если "нет", - то поспешите, пока не поздно...

Олег Л.Олег Л.    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 19:39

О чем мне разговаривать с обезумевшим голимым русофобом, который просит перевести на английский антирусский стишок, написанный дурочкой, которой еще и в проекте не было, когда мы с украинцами уже столетиями были братьями? И останемся братьями, несмотря на попытки нацистско-бандеровской власти оболванить украинский народ.

St. SolSt. Sol    गुरु, 23/05/2019 - 15:44

Этот вроде-бы неглупый(?) человек(?), называющий себя русским(?), любящим родную(??) культуру и язык, слово в слово повторяет нацистские Укро-методички (кстати разработанные за границей специально для народа Украины), которые день и ночь крутят по всем Укро каналам. Готовый продукт тех, кто построил свое благополучие на принципе "разделяй и властвуй" и кто пожертвует им не задумываясь.

Know thy friends close, but thy enemies closer.

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 18:16

@Jadis: Sorry, are you confused?
"being a communist was a crime" in Hitler's Germany: correct. And what did German Nazis do to communists, please remind me again?
Being a communist IS a crime in modern Ukraine. Do you need to be told what Ukro-Nazis did to communists? Do you fail to see any analogy to Nazi Germany here?
"Nazi ideology as the official ideology" of Ukraine: please look up Ukrainian decommunization laws, language laws, official national heroes of Ukraine (S. Bandera and R. Shukhevich, the commander of the Nachtigall Battalion and SS hauptmann, as well as one of the organizers of the Halych-Volhyn Massacre), the SS insignia worn by Ukro-Nazi troops, the official slogans, policies, and ideology of Ukr. govt. Take your time, really take all that in in its entirety, if possible read their original documents, not the versions edited for Western consumption, then tell me if you still don't see Nazi ideology as the official ideology of new Ukraine. Imho, even a wooden horse wouldn't fail to notice it, but keeping yourself blind and deaf to reality is apparently your choice.

@Hansi: Please stop saying "fascist", "elements of fascism" when discussing Ukraine: most people in power in modern Ukraine come from or are associated with Ukr. social-nationalist party and related Ukr. nationalist organizations. They are building a social nationalist Ukrainian state, but from changing the word order their essence doesn't change: they are building a National-Socialist Ukr. state (Nazi for short, there is no better word to describe it).

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    गुरु, 23/05/2019 - 10:50

@St. Sol:
It must be a real funny way to "build a social nationalist Ukrainian state, Nazi for short" allowing an independent comedian to become president.

St. SolSt. Sol    गुरु, 23/05/2019 - 15:52

Don't be naive: that was the will of the Ukrainian foreign handlers (nothing in Ukraine is decided by the people, in case you didn't know), electing a clown to be president is also very fitting for modern Nazi Ukraine, so that people like you could say: See, the place is really free and democratic. Seeing beyond the charade must be really difficult for victims of indoctrination.
Oh, here is another funny tidbit for you: according to Israeli intelligence, one of these foreign handlers (a US general) was recently asked about the strong Nazi smell emanating from Ukraine (Nazi battalions, openly Nazi policies and laws, glorification of Ukrainian Nazi and SS "heroes" of WWII, constructing "new" Ukr. history based only on Ukr. nationalists, terrorists, and Nazi collaborators, and their dirty and bloody deeds in the XX century, etc., etc.). His answer was (paraphrasing): "But that is all they got, there is nothing else to base the new Ukraine upon." So, even Ukr. handlers admit that, when separated from mutual Russian-Ukrainian history, the history of nationalist Ukraine alone is a history of treachery, betrayal, and Nazi collaboration.
Also: since you seem to strongly object to calling the current Ukr. regime "Nazi", I will use "National-Socialist" to more accurately describe was is going on there.

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    शुक्र, 24/05/2019 - 11:41
St. Sol wrote:

(S. Bandera and R. Shukhevich, the commander of the Nachtigall Battalion and SS hauptmann, as well as one of the organizers of the Halych-Volhyn Massacre)

After intense research no evidence was found that R. Shukhevych ever was a member of the SS.
The "Nachtigall Battallion" was not a part of the SS.
R. Shukhevych was not accused to have been one of the organizers of massacres on the Polish population in Eastern Galycia and Wolhynia.
R. Shukhevych was denied the title of "National Heroe of Ukraine" in 2011, mainly for political and formal reasons.

You better stop accusing Ukraine to follow "Nazi ideology".
Obviously you have no idea what the Nazi ideology was.

JadisJadis    शुक्र, 24/05/2019 - 11:38

And the main question should of course be : was stalinism better than nazism ? And the obvious answer is : no, it was kind of different, but it was certainly not better, by no means.

St. SolSt. Sol    शुक्र, 24/05/2019 - 12:55

Let's see: Stalin advocated world communism and all people's equality (although, using cruel autocratic methods and misguided ideas), Hitler advocated Aryan racial superiority and getting rid of ALL other impure blood, unworthy peoples by mass murder and other convenient means.
Hmm... That's a really tough choice here, don't you think?
As I said: Hitler's exoneration is surely coming to EU.

St. SolSt. Sol    शुक्र, 24/05/2019 - 12:57

Defending the notorious Nazi butcher (sorry: the esteemed Ukrainian National Socialist, the holy fighter for the purity of Aryan blood, the cleanser of the Ukrainian and other lands from the Jewish, communist, Polish, Russian and other scourge, the unjustly accused saint of the Ukrainian National Socialist independence under the benevolent rule of A. Hitler, and the faithful servant of the last European Savior Adolf Hitler himself) Roman Shukhevich now? Wow: Hitler's rehabilitation in EU is definitely ahead of schedule and surely coming soon.
Citing the 2011 denial of the "National Hero" status? Did you forget that 2011 was BEFORE the Nazi coup in 2014? You'd better check Shukhevich's status in Ukraine NOW!
P.S. My quote about Shukhevich was copied directly from Wikipedia, so you all better rush and fix this nonsense now before more people learn these crazy "untruths" about this holy man.

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    शुक्र, 24/05/2019 - 12:53
St. Sol wrote:

My quote about Shukhevich was copied directly from Wikipedia,

Aha?
I was working mainly with Wikipedia ...
so please give your exact source!

St. SolSt. Sol    शुक्र, 24/05/2019 - 13:02

"I was working mainly with Wikipedia ..."
Distorting and twisting my words again? That's not what I said, and there are tons of documental sources about Shukhevich's crimes against humanity, but let me say this:
Nazism has never died in Europe, and you are the prime example of that. Sieg Heil!

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    शुक्र, 24/05/2019 - 13:10

Just before the guys in the white uniforms take you away to the happy farm for good:
Why can't you give me a comprehensible source, (link, they call that)
instead of repeating all the old unproven sick clouds of your insane mind over and over again?

Ivan LudenIvan Luden    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 10:25
St. Sol wrote:

My dear, you forgot to mention one tiny difference between Russian Nazis and Ukrainian ones: in Russia promoting Nazi ideology is a crime, in Ukraine Nazis are in power and Nazi ideology is the official ideology of the state.

You're lying again!
Organized by neo-Nazis World Forum in St. Petersburg is a State Duma deputy from the "United Russia" and the chairman of the party "Rodina" Alexey Zhuravlev.
The whole world knows that today's Russia is a typical fascist state, at the head of which for nearly twenty years has been a thief and criminal authority Putin.
 

Ivan LudenIvan Luden    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 10:41

Russian economist, director of the Center for Post-Industrial Society Studies, Vladislav Inozemtsev says:

Happening since the mid-2000s in Russia - this is becoming a populist fascist regime, moderately aggressive. Mussolini in Italy, Franco in Spain and Salazar in Portugal - are the direct analogs of those who rule today in Moscow.

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 15:04

Regarding corruption: corruption will exist everywhere as long as governments exist - the two are inseparable. Fighting corruption is a favorite western tactic and pretext for regime change in countries that don't submit to their rule, and it's been long recognized as such (sorry, any Navalny supporters here - he is just another influence agent to undermine and sell out Russia). Fighting corruption in current circumstances, while laudable, IS a distraction and sidetracking from major issues at hand, and I am sorry that you got sidetracked.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    बुध, 15/05/2019 - 22:33

Sad if we accept is as given and raise no objection. It is not all about Russia.
Скажи нам: Кто вы? Как живёте?
Каков ваш мир? Что правит в нём?
В какой единственной заботе
Витает разум между дрём?
--
Природа – сказочная данность, –
Родное холит и растит,
Чужому ж, глупую незванность,
До истребленья не простит…
--
From https://lyricstranslate.com/en/nikolai-jincharadze-дворец-сапфира-lyrics...

JadisJadis    गुरु, 16/05/2019 - 13:37

This is true. Power corrupts - and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's the reason why we should never allow a dictator to climb too high, we should stop him before it is too late.

Hansi K_LauerHansi K_Lauer    गुरु, 16/05/2019 - 10:37

We should stop him before he has the chance to become a dictator.
When he is a dictator it's too late.
Wink smile

St. SolSt. Sol    गुरु, 16/05/2019 - 20:16

"But when you look at who are the best friends of Russia by now, it's quite interesting : Bashar Al Assad, one of the greatest war criminals in the world (after Milosevic, who was nearly an angel compared to him) ; the mollahs in Tehran (criminals, fanatics, trying to stifle the Iranian society by all means, and to destroy Israel of course) ; Maduro (incompétent dictator who made a ruin out of his rather wealthy country) ; Kadyrov, the Butcher of Caucasus ; Kim Jong Un (more or less) and the Chinese leaders... All of them very sympathetic people."

Incidentally, all mentioned countries (whether you like their govts. or not) are the last ones remaining in the world, not yet occupied, destroyed, or co-opted by the globalist empire, and still retaining a semblance of independent foreign policy. Please pause for a minute and ponder this coincidence. There used to be others in that group: Iraq, Libya. What has happened to them?

Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear. Whoever has eyes to see, let them see. (J. Christ, according to Mark and Matthew gospels)

JadisJadis    गुरु, 16/05/2019 - 14:19

In Iraq there was a dictator called Saddam Hussein, who invaded Kuwait, and made a bloody war with Iran. In Libya there was another dictator, half mad, called Kadhafi, who threw Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor into jail, arguing that they had inoculated AIDS to Libyan children on purpose (!). Our President (Sarkozy) had to send his wife to him and finally he released them... although we don't know how much we had to pay for that. He then went to Paris and required to pitch his tents on the Champs-Elysées, which was granted to him... I wouldn't say that I regret him much, even if the situation is rather worse now in both countries.

St. SolSt. Sol    गुरु, 16/05/2019 - 15:58

"even if the situation is rather worse now in both countries" - that's the key word here: millions have died and continue to die there because of foreign interference (liberation, deposing the dictators, doesn't matter whatever you call it), so the net outcome is negative, but some people still consider that to be a good thing. I believe medical dictionaries have a name for people like that.
Oh, and the first two things they did in "liberated' Libya were to establish the central bank and to "liberate" the country from its rather significant gold reserve. Think about that for a minute as well: what was the real goal of intervention in Libya?

JadisJadis    शुक्र, 17/05/2019 - 06:22

Well,it's always a pleasure to see a dictator being shot down. Saddam Hussein also had the fine idea to kill the population of a Kurd village with letal gas, so he was somehow a concurent of Al Assad. As to the goal in Libya, I guess that the Western powers were as usually short-sightened and didn't foresee the present mess (idealism, and other stupid ideas...) But when Putin kills 20% of the civil population in Chechnya and installs Kadyrov at its head, this is of course no idealism, this is very practical. When he quietly looks how the sailors of the Kursk submarine drown, it's quite practical too. When he sends his spetznaz to Beslan or to a theatre in Moscow with the brilliant result we know, the same. What is best, being an idiot or a bastard ? This is hard to decide. Many dictators are both at the same time.

St. SolSt. Sol    शुक्र, 17/05/2019 - 18:32

"the Western powers were as usually short-sightened and didn't foresee the present mess (idealism, and other stupid ideas...)"

I had to laugh at this passage for a few minutes, sorry. The detailed military plans to destroy seven (that's 7) middle-eastern countries were ready and on the table well before 9/11 happened in 2001 - a US general eye-witnessed them and wrote about it. But for the hoi polloi, the tales of democracy and Western idealism always worked best. We all can see the results. But millions upon millions of dead souls cry out for revenge and justice.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    शुक्र, 17/05/2019 - 18:40

Revenge and justice?
Only those who don't personally sacrifice want this...
Future only exists if people come to see that deaths of others, countless innocents, doesn't bring justice.
Otherwise, those hundreds of thousands Iraqi people who had perished for our revenge, oops greed, didn't bring justice to us, if they exact revenge, it won't do justice for them - we must be united to save the planet not to demagogue to death.

JadisJadis    मंगल, 21/05/2019 - 15:35

Were the Holodomor (5 millions dead) and the Gulag (10 millions citizens deported, among them 1 million died) also Western tales of democracy ? Is this not strangely similar to Hitler's nazi system ? Oh, how cool it must have been then in the blessed times of Stalin, Dzerzhinski and Beria, and all the beloved tovarishchi.... No "dead souls to cry out for revenge and justice" here ? Of course, all of them nazi bastards, like that Ossip Mandelstam bugger...
 
(Edit) Belomorsko-Baltiskii Kanal : 250,000 to 300,000 "zeks" died. All of them considered and treated as sheer slaves by their own governants, most of them innocent of whatever.

Олег Л.Олег Л.    मंगल, 21/05/2019 - 16:07

А ты слышал о голоде в царской России, когда у власти были gospoda?

JadisJadis    मंगल, 21/05/2019 - 16:17

Then why accusing only the Ukrainians ? There were more victims than tormentors.

Олег Л.Олег Л.    मंगल, 21/05/2019 - 16:32

Украинцы -- братский народ. Знаешь древний принцип "разделяй и властвуй"? Вот это сейчас и происходит на Украине.

Ivan LudenIvan Luden    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 04:45

А скажите-ка, "братик", - чей Крым?

О каком "братском народе" вы здесь говорите?
Да ещё - после того, что натворили в Украине рашисты во главе со своим фюрером Путлером...
Вы издеваетесь?
https://lyricstranslate.com/ru/virgis-pup%C5%A1ys-anastasia-dmitruk-нико...

PS
Для справки - я коренной русский, с Урала, где родился, вырос и получил образование. Очень люблю свой родной язык и культуру.
Часто бываю у себя на родине и в шоке от того, что сотворила с нею организованная преступная группа "кооператив Озеро", которая нынче и разделяет, и властвует во всей Россиюшке.
Моё личное мнение:
Россия + фашизм = рашизм

IgeethecatIgeethecat    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 04:31

Ребята, успокойтесь насчёт политики. А откуда с Урала, Иван, если не секрет?
Я родилась в Пермской области, ну а потом поносило по свету...

Ivan LudenIvan Luden    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 04:39

Я родился и вырос на Южном Урале. В Перми сейчас живёт моя двоюродная сестра.

IgeethecatIgeethecat    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 04:51

Ах, нас не так просто «побросать». Казахстан - сосед Южного Урала. Так что - вы ближе Regular smile

vevvevvevvev    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 05:40

Да я же в смысле, что "поносило" слово неблагозвучное Regular smile А мы же, уральцы, люди крепкие во всех отношениях Regular smile

IgeethecatIgeethecat    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 05:41

Ударение правильно ставьте. Одни глупости у вас на уме... или неприятности? Teeth smile

St. SolSt. Sol    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 14:22

"Очень люблю свой родной язык и культуру," [но ненавижу Россию и поддерживаю Бандеровский режим на Украине.]
Звучит странновато, вы точно русский?
(Sorry, yet again Reply button placed my response in a wrong place)

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 04:48
Jadis wrote:

Then why accusing only the Ukrainians ? There were more victims than tormentors.

Lol, Jadis. At least pick up someone else to accuse in "accusing only the Ukrainians"
That's what Oleg just said (and nothing else before you accused him): А ты слышал о голоде в царской России, когда у власти были gospoda?

This thread is so loaded with fallacies, so no surprise even Osip Mandelstam showed up.
Sure no one will be against him, but that's what people use when they run out of arguments on subject [whatever it was].

sandringsandring    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 06:32
Quote:

Well,it's always a pleasure to see a dictator being shot down.

As long as human beings take pleasure in seeing another human being shot down (whoever they are) we won't have anything good in this world

JadisJadis    बुध, 22/05/2019 - 14:30

Well, perhaps, but anyway I was pleased when Kadhafi was shot down, the same with Saddam Hussein, and I would be very pleased to see Al Assad shot down too. Just like I'm pleased that Eichman was hanged, and I regret very much that so many escaped their fate, often with disgusting complicities (Vatican, Peron, Bundesrepublik, Hafez el Assad - the father of Putin's darling Bashar, etc.) Oh, and Stalin, of course.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 16:10

Dear Vlad,
In principle, she refuses to read newspapers. -- > out of principle, she doesn't read newspapers
To all groups she is an alien -- > most everything is outside of her purview

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 18:02

i told him on the 1st page already: better: she doesn't read newspapers out of principle.

Vladimir4757Vladimir4757    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 18:25

I'm still confused on the right way of saying "Out of principle" and "In principle". I swear they're the same thing. Also, holy crap I'm so, so sorry for this shitpost I started on politics, Government, alcohol, and oppression. The next time at any kind of social occasion I think the first thing I'll do is bring up alcohol consumption by nation and hopefully diverge the conversation into full scale politics, nationalism, socialism, the geopolitical strings breaking the political and social boundaries as-well-as the underlying motives of dictators and tyrants, who instigated the entire debacle in Eastern Europe and whatever the hell moonshine is in the first place.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 18:29

Common, we need to talk politics or we will be wiped off the face of earth...

I'm a foreigner so I'd defer to natives, but
In principle - means generally in concept
Out of principle - means out of conviction

Vladimir4757Vladimir4757    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 18:30

Yeah, I get the same way too on it, just I always use them interchangeably even though I know for a fact I'm wrong on how I used it. Really bad since I'm also super picky on grammar :p (I was going to say grammar nazi but given the fact that someone brought up actual Nazis in this discussion I think I'll pass...)

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 18:33

Lol, it's ok in your context. Are you too young for Seinfeld's soup nazi?

vevvevvevvev    सोम, 13/05/2019 - 18:48

"If you are not interested in politics, this does not mean that politics is not interested in you".
Pericles

IsraelWuIsraelWu    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 08:40

BlackSea4ever,
You're right, Israel has to have a peace with its neighbours
There are only two small problems:
First, both sides do not believe one another and Israel doesn't have the privilege to be wrong about it. Just look at the numbers in Syria, Asad's own people. Of course, to be more precise he is an Alawi, minority in his own country and he knows exactly what his fate would be if he failed.
Second, the Muslims, like many others including Israeli orthodox believers, should join as a group, not individuals, the current century . Till than their moral obligations differ from our norms. A couple of years ago I would give it a couple decades. Today, with Poland, Hungary and Austria (and even partially France, US and Russia) as examples we have much longer to wait

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    मंगल, 14/05/2019 - 11:52

You are correct, but how can this movement into the new century occur? In US, there are more terrorist acts committed not by Muslims, but by the “right-wing extremists” whose violence is in support of the belief that personal and/or national way of life is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent, including anti-globalism, white supremacy, nationalism, suspicion of the government, and beliefs in conspiracies.
Stunningly, even after the mass murder in the Pittsburg synagogue by the white supremacist, after Trump inviting a clearly antisemitic Orban into White House and praising him, some Jews still support him - after all, war with Iran looks promising. What we see is the global ascend into violence caused by the extreme divisions and bias based on religion, nationality, gender, etc. What we need is for people to learn it isn't in their interest to be divided. This isn't limited to Muslims, it includes Israelis. PM Ardern in New Zeland showed what kind of response should be given after the mass murder by the white supremacist in mosques. So, while Trump finds "fine people" chanting "Jews will not replace us," should a single Jew support him? Just for all the millions in tax break, mr. Adelson? [Sheldon Adelson gave $30 Million to House Republicans - he got $670 Million tax break.]
Should we be quiet when many imply there is a Zionist plan for world dominance?
Should we just close eyes and hope?
No, we must fight all prejudice, educate more people, show that there is a common cause - environment - cause for uniting everyone to save this planet instead of descending into wars invented to keep us busy noticing how they profit few.

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