В золоте осени
In the Gold of the Fall [Singable]
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Ivan U7n 2018-06-13
Sophia_ Ivan U7n , 2018-06-18
Igeethecat
Csütörtök, 14/06/2018 - 07:58
The golden dye, golden dye, golden dye of the fall
makes the air silky and brings marvelous dreams.
Rustling of, rustling of leaves under trees
wakes crazy thoughts and casts shadows of spring.
—-
No offense Ivan, but if it’s a singlable,
You definitely need a native help :)
The golden dye - ? I do not understand,
As few other things....
Alexander Laskavtsev
Csütörtök, 14/06/2018 - 08:08
Я бы даже не уточнял, что это "золотые КРАСКИ" - имеющий воображение да вообразит ;)
Igeethecat
Csütörtök, 14/06/2018 - 16:13
Ок, попытаюсь объяснить. Первое, что приходит на ум about golden dye - краска для волос. Типа, осень решила блондинкой стать. К тому же при произношении, n and d сольются в один звук (нда) и 'golden dye' будет звучать как 'golden eye' . 'In the gold' - like in Anatoli's translation should keep the rhythm
Mist_Spb Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 04:10
In the gold, in the gold, in the gold of the fall
silky-smooth air causes magnificent dreams.
In the leaves, fallen leaves rustling away
varied strange thoughts bring up shadows of spring.
Causes - why not to stay with original “brings”?
The last line - try to sing it ;) :)
Why varied? Strange is strange enough :)
Allude to?
Just suggestions :)
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 12:31
Thanks guys and gals for keeping this in-focus. :)
Having a fresh look-over showed some irregularities I haven't noticed before. I've tweaked it here and there once more. Now everything looks good, at least to me (any misplaced article notwithstanding). ;)
Concerning verbs -- they are almost non-existent in the original, thus the ones used by me are just my interpretation as using implied "to be" everywhere seems rather silly.
And by the way, the original I use isn't totally identical to the one provided here:
В золоте, золоте, золоте осени
шелковый воздух и чудесные сны.
В шорохе, шорохе палой листвы
странные мысли и тени весны.А с неба искры дождя,
остановить их нельзя.
Резво пронзают туманные дни
искры надежды, тепла и любви.Трудно быть Богом, страшно быть собой.
В золоте осени кто-то другой
бродит по зеркалам луж и в витринах домов.
В тени спасенья и дорога домой.А с неба искры дождя,
остановить их нельзя.
Резво пронзают туманные дни
искры надежды, тепла и любви.
Sophia_
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 12:43
"В тени – спасенье" ?
Юра иногда поет "мягко пронзают" вместо "резво пронзают", но "в тени -спасенье" я ни разу за десять лет не слышала.
Сейчас переспросила, правильно "тени спасенья"
UPD: Была ошибка, не хватало "и" в строчке "Бродит по зеркалам луж и в витринах домов". Исправлено.
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 14:42
But raining sparks - что-то такое непереводимо-русское, но главное, чтобы русскому человеку было понятно :) ‘and’ here would be more appropriate then ‘but’, if you even need it
within window panes - are you talking about double panes? And is he wandering between/inside two panes? Трудно представить такую картину :D
Window - без всяких дополнительных- уже витрина, бродить в них, конечно, сложно, но можно делать window glazing or window shopping ;)
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 15:20
Согласен, протяжное but, может звучать как "butt". И пятая точка извергающая искры с небес -- это как-то чересчур. :) Но на самом деле raining sparks просится в качестве дополнения к чему-то like a saw raining sparks, а "дождящиеся" искры звучат оторвано от контекста.
Спросите у автора, что такое "витрины домов" и как по ним можно бродить, тогда я смогу сказать, что я пытался изобразить. ;) А в текущем виде я пытался обозначить отражение в стёклах витрин (а не между ними). Потому и "window panes" в качестве огромных стеклянных фасадов, а не каких-то там маленьких витриночек. :D
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 15:37
Window - is огромный стеклянный фасад, маленькие будут window boxes or something like this. Pane is more like рама по-русски, то, что вокруг стекла
Так автор вроде бы тоже здесь. Но почему то нас игнорирует и не отвечает на вопросы ;)
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 16:45
Why though? Here it is a present participle of "rustle", not a noun. The only thing that I see missing is a damn article. But to the hell with it. :)
"Cease" is used to rhyme with "peace". The whole construct with omitted "is" before "never" was thought like "I am never to stop trying".
"locutor"? What is this? Again this line omits some parts for the sake of the meter: (it's) Hard to be God, (still I'm) afraid to be myself. My choice of "afraid" is also influenced by the rhythm.
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 17:39
Oh, dumn us Russians for missing an article :)
It is not natural for us, sorry :)
This is why we need (and love) you
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 19:38
And I’ve never understand all those ‘perfect’ tenses... по-русски всё намного проще ;)
I had to google ‘declension’ and from what I understood, is ‘7’ just a number? because I think there’s many more :)
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 19:54
Old Russian also had a diverse set of tenses (all Slavic languages did in fact), but only the most simple ones survived to this day. But if you want to feel overwhelmed, look at Bulgarian verbs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_verbs. AFAIR they are the most close to the old Slavic verb system.
However development of languages sometimes leads them to strange results. The most curious example from the top of my head is Slovene FUTURE tense which is formed by an auxiliary verb and a PAST participle. :D
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 18:00
I've just recently thought that if Russian also had articles it would be a guaranteed nightmare to learn.
Still Greek I'm now trying to learn has both, thankfully there's only 4 cases but article forms depend on definiteness, gender AND case. So it is somewhat close. :D
Thankfully Bulgarian while having postposition articles has no cases or I'll be already doomed. But is does have a rather complex tense system. :)
Ivan U7n
Hétfő, 18/06/2018 - 10:42
Ευχαριστώ, είμαι καλά!
And I'm going to Greece in two weeks. :) I've tried to learn Greek with DuoLingo and it wasn't very successful. But now I've got a self-studying guide so hopefully things will improve. At least now I can read it without making my eye bleed. ;)
makis17 
Gavin
Hétfő, 18/06/2018 - 10:57
Ah enjoy! it was lovely and warm last week, my attempts to speak it were pretty ropey but always well recieved :)
If you can get hold of the Michel Thomas course it's pretty good for a quick start.
I didn't find duolingo great for getting started in Greek either but think it might be better once one's made a bit of progress.
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 19:31
I've fixed the wind, but I fear I can't think of something passive and fitting the rhythm with being oneself. But the original here (at least I think so) implies "мне" thus "to be myself". Considering the original and the omitted verbs in my translation I don't think this sentence can be improved without giving it another meaning altogether.
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 20:11
What are you talking about?
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 20:43
И какие проблемы (упуская из внимания артикли)?
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 21:00
So, the problem is with “afraid”?
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 21:30
I really like "scary", but this line is hard to match perfectly and keep the English sane at the same time. I tried hard to come up with something else, but have given up. It is now "scary" with a footnote indicating that this line isn't fully identical to the original. :/
As for the reference, only the author can tell, directly or via Sophia. :)
Sophia_
Hétfő, 18/06/2018 - 11:22
Я должна сказать, что автор несколько смущён таким пристальным разбором по полочкам его песни.
Что касается строчки "Трудно быть богом, страшно быть собой"
1) аллюзия на повесть Стругацких
2) это об эгоцентризме, когда человек пытается играть роль Бога, но конечно у него это не получается. А быть собой страшно.
Igeethecat
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 21:53
Бояться себя - not to ‘be scared of’, nor to ‘be afraid of’ either
Alexander Laskavtsev
Kedd, 19/06/2018 - 06:35
And btw. I wonder if this alludes to the Strugasky brother's novel?
It is... ;)
Ivan U7n
Vasárnap, 17/06/2018 - 20:26
Yeah, I know two parts differ in a person and are somewhat confusing when put together, but "hard" does imply "it's". Otherwise it sounds like "I'm eager to be God". :D
If I had more syllables, I would write something like "it's hard to be God, it's scary to be oneself" or "I'm lousy at being God, but afraid to be myself", But alas there's only 10 syllables and a strange stress pattern to boot.
Brat
Kedd, 19/06/2018 - 19:13
Well, considering the hint to the Strugatsky Br. novel, I'd say that "trying" is not that close to the meaning. I would rather say "troublesome", but it has 3 syllables while we need 2 ones. I didn't hear the music, but maybe it's possibe to foist it in between the licks? Otherwise, "vexing" or "tiresome" are not so good as it but stand on a par with "trying". Maybe even "painful" will do the job better, having in mind the plot of the novel. The second part of the line is even worse because neither "grim" nor "dire" would match the meaning. They both mean "bodeful" while the original implies "scary" or "frightening". :(
sandring
Péntek, 22/06/2018 - 00:44
I'll tell you what, Bro. If I were to translate Strugatsky's novel I would translate the title as It's Trying to be God. Meaning it's a hard challenge. As for Grim, we must have a one-syllable synonym for scary which is what???? What's the use of your three-syllable options? We all can give a hundred. Here we must take a closer look at the Russian meaning. Страшно быть собой I don't think Scary is an option here at all. Страшно because it's too hard a challenge. It may easily fail. Mission hardly possible. And something that worries you because there's no hope is grim. Grim is no synonym to bodeful. Bodeful is very aggressive in implication. Grim is sad and pessimistic. Btw, what is страшная? Смерть Is the first association. English? Grim death. Well, I can always hide behind William's back "Grim death, how foul and loathsome is thine image" Bro, I hope you wouldn't call Willie's choice "even worse"? :)
Brat
Péntek, 22/06/2018 - 01:59
I'll tell you what, Bro. If I were to translate Strugatsky's novel I would translate the title as It's Trying to be God. Meaning it's a hard challenge.
So it was translated ->https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_to_Be_a_God BTW, "trying" implies that one finally coped with the task, but the hero of the Strugatsky's novel didn't, as you may remember. :( But nevertheless "trying" is a fair match of the original meaning "nearly impossible".
As for Grim, we must have a one-syllable synonym for scary which is what???? What's the use of your three-syllable options? We all can give a hundred. Here we must take a closer look at the Russian meaning. Страшно быть собой I don't think Scary is an option here at all. Страшно because it's too hard a challenge. It may easily fail. Mission hardly possible. And something that worries you because there's no hope is grim. Grim is no synonym to bodeful. Bodeful is very aggressive in implication. Grim is sad and pessimistic. Btw, what is страшная? Смерть Is the first association. English? Grim death. Well, I can always hide behind William's back "Grim death, how foul and loathsome is thine image" Bro, I hope you wouldn't call Willie's choice "even worse"? :)
Ha-ha-ha, we're talking about being, not death. If that goes further, will you write something like: "To die or not to die-that is the option"? In my humbliest opinion, it's more like about a kind of existential fear (projective, unconcsious -> scary) of being oneself that cannot be rendered by this "grim". But I might be mistaken because I've never rolled profoundly into this topic.
Nevertheless I understand this as if it was a phobia like that arachnophobia, for instance. It means when an arachnophobe sees a spider, he or she won't think about how hard it is to challenge taking it in hand (having in mind that the vast majority (99,9%) of the spiders you may ever come across are completely innoculuous) - he'll simply be scared to death. :)
St. Sol
Péntek, 22/06/2018 - 01:09
On the subject of equirhythmicity: the challenge is to preserve the original meter with a NATURAL stress pattern in the translation (i.e. to avoid stressing prepositions, articles, unstressed syllables in common words, etc.). Unfortunately that has not been accomplished here:
.
В зОлоте, зОлоте, зОлоте Осени == In the gold, In the gold, In the gold Of the fall
.
As you can see, only prepositions are stressed in the 1st line, hence there is a significant room for improvement.
Regards, St.
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