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Just out of curiosity, and I think I know the answer to this already. But why aren't Norwegian Nynorsk and Norwegian Bokmål considered separate on here?

I've seen a few requests to Norwegian, where the user would specify if they need Nynorsk, so I've taken to doing the same thing.

But, wouldn't it just be easier to separate them?

Retired Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/hu/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1077079">Sciera </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011

I think I replied to the same question here: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/forum/norwegian

Sciera wrote:

I have already suggested 3 years ago that different categories be added for Bokmål and Nynorsk, but it wasn't deemed necessary
[...]
However, I'm still in favor of splitting the Norwegian category into its two standard languages as they seem to be clearly separate idioms.

In other words, I think we need input from Norwegian natives, and if they deem it better to separate the categories the admins may do so.

Retired Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/hu/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1077079">Sciera </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011

The admins replied they can add the category if we have users providing content in Nynorsk (adding lyrics or translations). Do we already have content in Nynorsk? I would assume so, could you list some?

Senior Member
<a href="/hu/translator/ibn-sabil" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1316165">ibn as-sabil </a>
Csatlakozott: 22.11.2016

Here's a nynorsk item I posted recently -

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lars-klevstrand-vi-skal-ikkje-sova-lyrics...

I added a note at the bottom specifying that it was nynorsk, but having lived and worked in Norway for many years, I would most definitely vote AGAINST!!!! separating the two!!! I think it should be sufficient to simply add a searchable tag to texts which are specifically nynorsk.

Bokmål is spoken and written by probably 85% (or more!) of Norway's population (whereas approximately 85% of Norway's geographic area is nynorsk territory...?) But many who themselves consider bokmål to be their native spoken and written language-form (and look down their noses at nynorsk!!!) in fact speak a dialect whose pronunciation and vocabulary differ, in some cases, quite considerably, from standard bokmål! Including some of Norway's most famous singers! (At least, many of those from the previous generation - Alf Prøysen immediately comes to mind.)

And there are also many more different dialect variants of nynorsk! And the government is slowly but surely trying to meld the two languages ultimately into one common form, "samnorsk". (From the Norwegian word "sammen" (nynorsk "saman"), meaning "together"): There have been numerous acts of parliament(!) officially changing both the spelling, and the grammar: the gender of words; the past tense formation, etc!! (mainly of bokmål, to make it more like nynorsk -- and more like the oral forms in common use, even in the bokmål-speaking areas.)

If we start dividing Norwegian texts up into all their regional and dialect varieties - Sørlandsk; Trøndersk; Hedemarken; Oslo-østre (working class east Oslo); Oslo-vest (more refined Western Oslo); Bergensk; etc. etc. etc., where will it all end?

Most importantly, it would make looking for texts much more difficult, as we'd often have to look in two places (and frequently, they would often be mislabeled, or wrongly sorted!, as those who aren't fluent in the language, but want to post the lyrics (which they got off a CD cover, or found on the internet, etc.), in the hopes that someone can provide a translation, and only know that it's Norwegian, but don't themselves have a clue as to which variety it is, would then be at a much greater disadvantage, and the whole thing would cause much more confusion, and we would then need to employ several more full-time grammar-nazis just to correctly sort and separate the two varieties!!! (And Norwegians can be extremely partisan and ferocious when fighting over the two varieties of their language!)

So as, true, a non-native, but nevertheless, fully fluent speaker who has lived in Norway for many years, I most adamantly vote that we preserve the peace we’ve so far managed to enjoy and employ on this here-forum, and simply add a searchable tag for nynorsk entries. !!!!

Retired Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/hu/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1077079">Sciera </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011

Thank you for your input.

We don't have any tag system at the moment, so this is not a possibility (at least not one in the near future).

I have suggested before that we group certain languages together to make it easier to search in all dialects of it at once. But it's not always easy to decide what to put into the same group.

Regarding the sub-dialects, we already have a category for the dialect Sognamål, and others can be added as long as we have enough content in them. We could also make a general category for all dialectal varieties instead.

Regarding language politics, that makes things more complicated. But normally languages are defined here by what the people actually use, not by what policies exist.

Guru
<a href="/hu/translator/balkantranslate1" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1307847">BalkanTranslate1 </a>
Csatlakozott: 18.09.2016

Hi! I would like to comment this topic from my experience. I'm a native speaker of Serbian and Croatian language, which are linguistically very closely connected, even referred to one language: 'Serbo-Croatian'. Our languages used to be one since 1991, when a war between Serbia and Croatia broke out. Today, even Bosnian and Montenegrin are considered separate languages. Croatian language has two main dialects (Chakavian/čakavski and Kajkavian/kajkavski) which are also divided on this page. Serbian is also connected with the bigger, Serbian-Macedonian-Bulgarian mixture, which is called 'Torlakian dialect', also divided here. So if all of this languages are split, why Norwegian can't be? Maybe because it's just one nation? But if Croatian dialects (and also Estonian, as I have seen) are split, then I think Norwegian dialects also shall be.
With kind regards,
Stefan

Guru
<a href="/hu/translator/balkantranslate1" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1307847">BalkanTranslate1 </a>
Csatlakozott: 18.09.2016

I don't know anything about Norwegian, but if you say that they have such differences, they certainly have to be divided as separate languages, mostly because translations between them two are possible. For example, it is possible to translate between Croatian and Serbian; so I think it would be possible to translate between two Norwegian dialects. :)

Guru
<a href="/hu/translator/balkantranslate1" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1307847">BalkanTranslate1 </a>
Csatlakozott: 18.09.2016

Well, when I write Serbian, I always write it in Cyrillic script because it's proposed by Serbian Constitution and we've written only Cyrillic in the primary school. But yes, there are some differences, although around 80 % of the lyrics will remain untouched :)

Senior Member
<a href="/hu/translator/ibn-sabil" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1316165">ibn as-sabil </a>
Csatlakozott: 22.11.2016

I see some of my comments generated a bit of heat; (of course, my comments were also a bit heated.)

Besides now belonging to separate, independent countries, Serbian and Croatian have always generally been written in two completely different alphabets, Cyrillic and Latin; and the Serbs are strongly Eastern Orthodox, whereas the Croatians are strongly Roman Catholic, (and the Bosnians Muslim); and they have a history of at times violently hating and fighting each other (already during the Second World War, Tito’s Serbian partisans fighting the Nazis, and the Croatian Ustasha collaborating with the Nazis and murdering Serbs; and Bosnian Muslim troops who fought for the Nazis); not just since the breakup of Yugoslavia in the 90’s! There are some minor vocabulary differences, but I doubt the differences at this point -- in either pronunciation or vocabulary -- are nearly as great between Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian, as are the differences between British and American English! -- maybe we ought to also now start separate categories for those two languages as well?

(Just today I saw a "meme" where Queen Elizabeth smugly declaims: "There is no such thing as 'American English'. There is English, and there are mistakes.")

Norway, unlike Sweden, has no "rikssvenska" (“riksnorsk”) in either bokmal or nynorsk: There is no Oxford English, "Queen's English", or RP (Received Pronunciation) for Norwegian. Virtually EVERYBODY in Norway SPEAKS a local dialect. Nynorsk, and bokmål are the two official WRITTEN standards, to which various dialects conform, (or from which they diverge!), to varying degrees: In television and radio broadcasting, most closely conforming to the written standard, (with a more or less artificial nynorsk “written (or “reading” pronunciation” being used.)

Back in 1965 (long before the age of the internet or even of personal computers!) Einar Haugen produced what is probably still the best, most comprehensive Norwegian-English dictionary: He included all nynorsk and all bokmål entries and all dialect words alphabetically in the same corpus (many words are identical in both bokmål and nynorsk!); those words, however, which are only bokmål are preceded by a superscript plus sign; those which are only nynorsk, are preceded by a superscript asterisk; and those which are only dialect words, are preceded by the degree sign. For example, four variants for the Norwegian word for “not”:
+ikke; *ikkje; °itj; and °itte.

Of course, when we’re dealing with actual texts, then these would always be one or the other of the three variants... But I would still plead for keeping these all in a single corpus -- perhaps always listing them as: - Norwegian (bokmål); and - Norwegian (nynorsk); and - Norwegian (dialect), but keeping them in a single directory, and NOT breaking them up into separate language folders...?

For example, -- except for those periodicals which are specifically published by the fanatical adherents of the one language form or the other (there are namely special societies devoted to advancing and preserving both bokmål and nynorsk!), -- ordinary mass circulation Norwegian newspapers and magazines REGULARLY publish articles, and letters to the editor in BOTH language forms, side by side! ((I.e., NOT the SAME article being simultaneously published in parallel in BOTH forms, but both forms, EITHER bokmål OR nynorsk, being used interchangeably in the pages of said newspaper or magazine.)

Senior Member
<a href="/hu/translator/ibn-sabil" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1316165">ibn as-sabil </a>
Csatlakozott: 22.11.2016
Agronak gro-Malog wrote:

Exactly. I think it would be useful for beginners to be able to put in requests between the two, so they can see the differences. That's why I put in requests from Croatian to Serbian even though I know there will hardly be differences :p

Is there at present no way of specifying any additional details as to which type of Norwegian one would like a translation into?

Senior Member
<a href="/hu/translator/ibn-sabil" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1316165">ibn as-sabil </a>
Csatlakozott: 22.11.2016

Norwegian libraries or record stores or bookshops also aren't segregated into two different languages, even though individual writers usually choose either the one or the other; all Norwegians can easily read and understand both; I don't want to see the corpus of Norwegian lyrics unnecessarily split up, making it less readily accessible, and necessitating always searching in two different data bases, as the Norwegians themselves do not segregate the two language variants in this manner!

Senior Member
<a href="/hu/translator/ibn-sabil" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1316165">ibn as-sabil </a>
Csatlakozott: 22.11.2016
Agronak gro-Malog wrote:

Just out of curiosity, and I think I know the answer to this already. But why aren't Norwegian Nynorsk and Norwegian Bokmål considered separate on here?

I've seen a few requests to Norwegian, where the user would specify if they need Nynorsk, so I've taken to doing the same thing.

But, wouldn't it just be easier to separate them?

--It seems that the answer to my question was "yes", as you specified in your opening entry, that it IS apparently possible to specify in one's requests, which variant of Norwegian one desires a translation into!

Guru
<a href="/hu/translator/balkantranslate1" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1307847">BalkanTranslate1 </a>
Csatlakozott: 18.09.2016
ibn as-sabil wrote:

I see some of my comments generated a bit of heat; (of course, my comments were also a bit heated.)

Besides now belonging to separate, independent countries, Serbian and Croatian have always generally been written in two completely different alphabets, Cyrillic and Latin; and the Serbs are strongly Eastern Orthodox, whereas the Croatians are strongly Roman Catholic, (and the Bosnians Muslim); and they have a history of at times violently hating and fighting each other (already during the Second World War, Tito’s Serbian partisans fighting the Nazis, and the Croatian Ustasha collaborating with the Nazis and murdering Serbs; and Bosnian Muslim troops who fought for the Nazis); not just since the breakup of Yugoslavia in the 90’s! There are some minor vocabulary differences, but I doubt the differences at this point -- in either pronunciation or vocabulary -- are nearly as great between Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian, as are the differences between British and American English! -- maybe we ought to also now start separate categories for those two languages as well?

(Just today I saw a "meme" where Queen Elizabeth smugly declaims: "There is no such thing as 'American English'. There is English, and there are mistakes.")

Norway, unlike Sweden, has no "rikssvenska" (“riksnorsk”) in either bokmal or nynorsk: There is no Oxford English, "Queen's English", or RP (Received Pronunciation) for Norwegian. Virtually EVERYBODY in Norway SPEAKS a local dialect. Nynorsk, and bokmål are the two official WRITTEN standards, to which various dialects conform, (or from which they diverge!), to varying degrees: In television and radio broadcasting, most closely conforming to the written standard, (with a more or less artificial nynorsk “written (or “reading” pronunciation” being used.)

Back in 1965 (long before the age of the internet or even of personal computers!) Einar Haugen produced what is probably still the best, most comprehensive Norwegian-English dictionary: He included all nynorsk and all bokmål entries and all dialect words alphabetically in the same corpus (many words are identical in both bokmål and nynorsk!); those words, however, which are only bokmål are preceded by a superscript plus sign; those which are only nynorsk, are preceded by a superscript asterisk; and those which are only dialect words, are preceded by the degree sign. For example, four variants for the Norwegian word for “not”:
+ikke; *ikkje; °itj; and °itte.

Of course, when we’re dealing with actual texts, then these would always be one or the other of the three variants... But I would still plead for keeping these all in a single corpus -- perhaps always listing them as: - Norwegian (bokmål); and - Norwegian (nynorsk); and - Norwegian (dialect), but keeping them in a single directory, and NOT breaking them up into separate language folders...?

For example, -- except for those periodicals which are specifically published by the fanatical adherents of the one language form or the other (there are namely special societies devoted to advancing and preserving both bokmål and nynorsk!), -- ordinary mass circulation Norwegian newspapers and magazines REGULARLY publish articles, and letters to the editor in BOTH language forms, side by side! ((I.e., NOT the SAME article being simultaneously published in parallel in BOTH forms, but both forms, EITHER bokmål OR nynorsk, being used interchangeably in the pages of said newspaper or magazine.)

Well, Croatian and Serbian are much more differ than you think. But this is a topic about Norwegian so I wouldn't like to continue with South-Slavic languages and history. If you'd like to discuss this you can write me a Private Message or write under the topic Slavic languages :)

Retired Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/hu/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1077079">Sciera </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011
ibn as-sabil wrote:
Agronak gro-Malog wrote:

Exactly. I think it would be useful for beginners to be able to put in requests between the two, so they can see the differences. That's why I put in requests from Croatian to Serbian even though I know there will hardly be differences :p

Is there at present no way of specifying any additional details as to which type of Norwegian one would like a translation into?

One can leave a note in the "requester's comment" field, which is only visible as long as the request is open.

I understand your point regarding there being too many sub-dialects, and no real standard. It's the same for other languages, though.
For German, my native language, we have currently 6 additional categories for the different dialect groups (and there are dialects that fall inbetween some of these 6). Nevertheless, more than 99% of actual lyrics are written in standard German, or in a colloquial form of it - it's not that common for bands here to write in the dialect of their region.
Additionally, the dialects are not really mutually intelligible - I for example couldn't transcribe most Bavarian or Allemanic songs, and would also have difficulties with understanding Low German.
Are the sub-dialects you are talking about rather colloquial forms, or do they differ more?

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<a href="/hu/translator/ibn-sabil" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1316165">ibn as-sabil </a>
Csatlakozott: 22.11.2016
BalkanTranslate1 wrote:

Well, Croatian and Serbian are much more different than you think. But this is a topic about Norwegian so I wouldn't like to continue with South-Slavic languages and history. If you'd like to discuss this you can write me a Private Message or write under the topic Slavic languages :)

Dear BalkanTranslate1!

I apologize if I've overstepped my remit, and spoken too confidently about matters of which I have insufficent personal knowledge! Those were the details which had previously been given to me both by native speakers of Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian, as recently as a year or so ago, as well as by the eminent Slavic philologist Alexander Issatschenko, back when I studied Slavic linguistics under his tutelage; and by my native-born Croatian professor Barisa Krekic, under whom I studied Balkan history... -- But that was many(!) years ago, and far away... so perhaps my recent informants were unreliable, and the situation has changed more radically since my studies, (and my professor's emigration!), and the break-up of Yugoslavia...?

Again, my apologies, and I probably will be PM'ing you, as it is a subject which I would now like to plumb more exactly!

Guru
<a href="/hu/translator/balkantranslate1" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1307847">BalkanTranslate1 </a>
Csatlakozott: 18.09.2016

Yes, if you have any questions about Balkans (ex-Yugoslavia) politics and history, you can send me a PM. Your appology is accepted! :)
Sincerely,
Stefan

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<a href="/hu/translator/tollef" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1339894">Tollef </a>
Csatlakozott: 30.05.2017

Norwegian perspective here. There is no reason to separate the two written standards Bokmål and Nynorsk for a few reasons. They are very similar, and Norwegians learn both written forms in school and understand them both almost equally. More, many of the songs are written in local dialect, meaning they fit neither of the two standards. Separation would not only be messy and difficult, it would also be unnecessary.

Also, I can see that some of you have written about the Samnorsk initiative, and I won't go into detail, but that initiative is long gone. The important thing is that separation is unwanted, and if some Norwegians are bad at one of the written standards, they will just avoid translating it.

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<a href="/hu/translator/andreven" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1374349">Andreven </a>
Csatlakozott: 03.03.2018

An additional Norwegian perspective here: It would be a massive mistake to separate Norwegian into more categories. Norwegian is not a big language on this site. Until recently the Norwegian idioms category was almost empty. Keeping it all gathered in one place makes more sense. Attempting to separate it all would be a terrible arbitrary mess. A better solution is to simply tag each song and idiom with the relevant writing norm or dialect.

The categories "Norwegian (Sognamål)" and "Norwegian (Dano-Norwegian)" should not exist to begin with. The Sognamål dialect used by Windir is simply another dialect of Modern Norwegian, just like the Bergen dialect of Bendik or the Oslo dialect of Jokke & Valentinerne. The category "Norwegian (Dano-Norwegian)" consists of two miscategorised songs and one poem written in Danish (with Danish orthography) by Hamsun, but sung in Norwegian, and should therefor simple be categorised as Norwegian along with the other songs by Lumsk.

Retired Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/hu/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1077079">Sciera </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011
Andreven wrote:

An additional Norwegian perspective here: It would be a massive mistake to separate Norwegian into more categories. Norwegian is not a big language on this site. Until recently the Norwegian idioms category was almost empty. Keeping it all gathered in one place makes more sense. Attempting to separate it all would be a terrible arbitrary mess. A better solution is to simply tag each song and idiom with the relevant writing norm or dialect.

Most of our dialect categories have much less content than the Norwegian category.
But if it's often difficult to decide whether something is Nynorsk or Bokmål then that would of course be a good argument against the separation.

Since the border between a language and a dialect is very fluid, making a tag system for dialects would mean to determine for all languages on this website whether they are a language or a dialect, and I would think that we should rather want to avoid that.

Andreven wrote:

The categories "Norwegian (Sognamål)" and "Norwegian (Dano-Norwegian)" should not exist to begin with. The Sognamål dialect used by Windir is simply another dialect of Modern Norwegian, just like the Bergen dialect of Bendik or the Oslo dialect of Jokke & Valentinerne. The category "Norwegian (Dano-Norwegian)" consists of two miscategorised songs and one poem written in Danish (with Danish orthography) by Hamsun, but sung in Norwegian, and should therefor simple be categorised as Norwegian along with the other songs by Lumsk.

Thanks for the information - which categories should the two songs be put into?
Could you perhaps also check whether the translations into Dano-Norwegian are in the right category, or where they should be put into?
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/translations/0/1020252/none/none/none/0/0...

Dano-Norwegian was added many years ago (before we had the rule of at least 3 texts in a language) because of https://lyricstranslate.com/en/Edvard-Grieg-Solvejgs-Song-lyrics.html which was reported to be written in that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dano-Norwegian

Regarding Sognamål, for several languages here (German, Italian, English, ...) we have categories for dialects or dialect groups. We could certainly extend the Sognamål category to include any Norwegian dialect (except for the 2 standards).
I'm not fluent in any kind of Norwegian, but the sample here gives me the impression that this dialect is fairly distinct from the two standards of Norwegian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sognam%C3%A5l_dialect#Samples

Retired Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/hu/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1077079">Sciera </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011

About the poem by Hamsun, I would categorize it as Danish if the text we have here is in Danish. For the Norwegian version sung, a new entry could be made.
Also, there is a comment beneath the entry by our user Sylvrosa, claiming that the text is in Riksmål, which according to Wikipedia is the descendent of Dano-Norwegian and predecessor of Bokmål
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riksm%C3%A5l
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/diset-kv%C3%A6ld-lyrics.html

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Csatlakozott: 03.03.2018

The poem was written in Danish, but the song by Lumsk is sung in Norwegian. So "ud" becomes "ut" and "vide rum" becomes "vite rom". It should be classified as Norwegian, just as all the other songs based on Hamsun poems by Lumsk have been, because the song is more important than the orthography.

To say that Hamsun wrote Riksmål is anachronistic and misinformed. Both Danes and Norwegians sometimes called their writing Rigsmaal (meaning "language of the realm"), but Rigsmaal was not in any way separate from Danish. Hamsun was a strong opponent of separating Norwegian writing from Danish writing via reforms. He wrote Danish, used Danish orthography and Danish grammar. Most Norwegians who read his work now are only exposed to the translated versions of his books. These translations use reformed Norwegian orthography and grammar, but otherwise stay close to Danish, and are therefore called Riksmål.

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Csatlakozott: 03.03.2018
Sciera wrote:

Since the border between a language and a dialect is very fluid, making a tag system for dialects would mean to determine for all languages on this website whether they are a language or a dialect, and I would think that we should rather want to avoid that.

Yes, drawing lines between dialects and languages would be messy and arbitrary. So I suggest keeping it simple: We can tag Norwegian texts "Nynorsk" or "Bokmål", and texts that don't follow the norms can simply be tagged "Dialectal" to show that they are nonstandard. These tags should be optional.

Sciera wrote:

- which categories should the two songs be put into?
Could you perhaps also check whether the translations into Dano-Norwegian are in the right category, or where they should be put into?
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/translations/0/1020252/none/none/none/0/0...

"Ukjend Land" is in Nynorsk and "Solvejgs Lied" is in misspelled Bokmål (with the wrong title) and desperately needs to be corrected. The "Dano-Norwegian" translations are in Bokmål. The word "kjærlighet" would be "kærlighed" in Dano-Norwegian, and "mitt" would be "mit".

Sciera wrote:

Dano-Norwegian was added many years ago (before we had the rule of at least 3 texts in a language) because of https://lyricstranslate.com/en/Edvard-Grieg-Solvejgs-Song-lyrics.html which was reported to be written in that.

This makes me very sad. The lyrics and even the title are wrong. Ibsen deserves better. It is "Solveigs sang" not "Solvejgs Lied" (which is not even Norwegian). Correct text here: https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solveigs_sang

Sciera wrote:

Regarding Sognamål, for several languages here (German, Italian, English, ...) we have categories for dialects or dialect groups. We could certainly extend the Sognamål category to include any Norwegian dialect (except for the 2 standards).
I'm not fluent in any kind of Norwegian, but the sample here gives me the impression that this dialect is fairly distinct from the two standards of Norwegian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sognam%C3%A5l_dialect#Samples

Sognamål is indeed a distinct dialect, but dividing Norwegian into subcategories is messy and arbitrary. I could divide the Norwegian songs I've recently translated into Nordnorsk, Jærsk, Vikværsk, Bergensk, Hallingmål, Stavangersk etc. etc. but this would be messy and arbitrary so we should avoid that.

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Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011

Thanks for all the info!

Andreven wrote:
Sciera wrote:

Since the border between a language and a dialect is very fluid, making a tag system for dialects would mean to determine for all languages on this website whether they are a language or a dialect, and I would think that we should rather want to avoid that.

Yes, drawing lines between dialects and languages would be messy and arbitrary. So I suggest keeping it simple: We can tag Norwegian texts "Nynorsk" or "Bokmål", and texts that don't follow the norms can simply be tagged "Dialectal" to show that they are nonstandard. These tags should be optional.

I wouldn't want to introduce a tagging system separate from the language categories. If we make one for the Norwegian ones, we should also do so for dozens of other languages. E.g. we then should merge the 4 Serbo-Croatian languages + their dialects and only tag them as they seem to be not further from each other than the Norwegian ones (at least my impression). And I don't want to go sitting in that mess of deciding where a dialect ends and a language begins, it would be a much greater one than just having the question of which categories to add.
Having 3 categories for Norwegian - Nynorsk, Bokmål, Other (i.e. all dialects and older standards) - seems quite reasonable to me, don't you think?

Quote:

"Ukjend Land" is in Nynorsk and "Solvejgs Lied" is in misspelled Bokmål (with the wrong title) and desperately needs to be corrected.

Could you provide a corrected version of Ukjend Land?

Quote:

The "Dano-Norwegian" translations are in Bokmål.

I've re-categorized them.

Quote:

This makes me very sad. The lyrics and even the title are wrong. Ibsen deserves better. It is "Solveigs sang" not "Solvejgs Lied" (which is not even Norwegian). Correct text here: https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solveigs_sang

Thank you, I've corrected it. Which variety of Norwegian is it written in?

Andreven wrote:

The poem was written in Danish, but the song by Lumsk is sung in Norwegian. So "ud" becomes "ut" and "vide rum" becomes "vite rom". It should be classified as Norwegian, just as all the other songs based on Hamsun poems by Lumsk have been, because the song is more important than the orthography.

We would treat them as translated cover versions here. Since they are added to the artist pages of the performer, the version sung should be used. Could you provide the full sung text, so I can edit it?

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Csatlakozott: 03.03.2018

Sorry for my delayed reply here.

Sciera wrote:

I wouldn't want to introduce a tagging system separate from the language categories. If we make one for the Norwegian ones, we should also do so for dozens of other languages. E.g. we then should merge the 4 Serbo-Croatian languages + their dialects and only tag them as they seem to be not further from each other than the Norwegian ones (at least my impression). And I don't want to go sitting in that mess of deciding where a dialect ends and a language begins, it would be a much greater one than just having the question of which categories to add.
Having 3 categories for Norwegian - Nynorsk, Bokmål, Other (i.e. all dialects and older standards) - seems quite reasonable to me, don't you think?

I don't know how hard it would be to create a tagging system, but in some cases it would be a better way of giving the reader info about the orthography or dialect of the text than creation entire new categories. I still think it would be a mistake to attempt to separate Norwegian into three categories. The process would be very messy. It is far more useful to have all Norwegian translations, idioms and translations requests in one place for people to find.

Sciera wrote:

Could you provide a corrected version of Ukjend Land?

The text for Ukjend Land is correct, but it is in Norwegian Nynorsk and not in Dano-Norwegian.

Sciera wrote:

Thank you, I've corrected it. Which variety of Norwegian is it written in?

Dano-Norwegian.

Sciera wrote:

We would treat them as translated cover versions here. Since they are added to the artist pages of the performer, the version sung should be used. Could you provide the full sung text, so I can edit it?

With Norwegian Bokmål orthography the sung text is:

Mitt sinn er så tungt, jeg ser intet lys
i hele det skumrende, hvite rom.
Jeg bøyer meg sammen og ber om et råd:
men himmelen er stum.

Jeg stirrer forknytt ut i kvelden hard
- da spretter der stjerne på stjerne ut.
Jeg synes de vinker meg en efter en
som små svar fra Gud.

Jeg bøyer meg ned med takk for ikveld
og tror på en morgen så klar og høy.
Men da har de stjerner skjult av skam,
O Gud hvor de løy!
-
One thing worth mentioning here is that the word "vide" (wide) gets pronounced as "hvite" ("white"), and I suspect this is simply because the singer misunderstood the original Danish text.

Retired Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
<a href="/hu/translator/sciera" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1077079">Sciera </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.02.2011
Andreven wrote:

I don't know how hard it would be to create a tagging system, but in some cases it would be a better way of giving the reader info about the orthography or dialect of the text than creation entire new categories. I still think it would be a mistake to attempt to separate Norwegian into three categories. The process would be very messy. It is far more useful to have all Norwegian translations, idioms and translations requests in one place for people to find.

Not upon me to decide anyway. Considering how controversial this seems, we will need more opinions before any decision can be made.
And a tagging system seems much more messy than any category system could be, but then, you know much more about the languages in question here.

Thanks for the other information, I've updated the song entries accordingly.

Super Member Jötunn
<a href="/hu/translator/valilokason" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1415599">vali_lokason </a>
Csatlakozott: 16.03.2019

oh, so fine to find this. i'm glad that i'm not the only one bothered by this. i was thinking to propose to add nynorsk as separate language but the arguments in here seem reasonable too. i'm voting for a tagging system. or (only when it's not possible !) for nynorsk as a separate language. because we do have pretty much material. because nynorsk isn't the same language as bokmål. and nynorsk is a threatened minority language which needs visibility when represented