[CLOSED] More Objective Rules for Hate Speech, Unwelcomed Comments and Personal Issues

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Member
<a href="/hu/translator/chiarabella" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1157032">Chiarabella</a>
Csatlakozott: 08.02.2013

Я поняла Вашу мысль. И чтобы люди и "взаправду" не начали "примерять" на себя, объяснила смысл.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/almitra" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1432222">Almitra</a>
Csatlakozott: 01.09.2019

Andrea, it seems like you feel that this discussion is less than productive, and believe me the last thing I wanted is to "dominate" a discussion, but if want to be serious about this difficult matter, it's not enough to just say things like, 'Can't we all just get along?' or say that we are for everything good and against everything bad, as we say in Russia. We need to argue our points, we need to try and dismantle our own arguments, we need to be nitpicky and boring if we want to forge something that would really work. I mean, Youtube has one of the best community guidelines I've seen. Have you tried discussing anything on Youtube? So don't you think we should be asking questions and try to figure out what's failed and why?

You say that we've got two chat rooms here. Fair enough. But in my experience, a huge portion of that 'babbling' in the comment section has to do with someone's controversial statement about a poem or translation. And an argument ensues. We had an argument like that two days ago. A user who is not a villain and shouldn't be banned expressed a rather strong opinion about an obscene word that the author chose to use in her poem. One word. The battle of words lasted for 11 pages. And it wasn't just babbling (albeit some comments were widely off-topic). Discussing the right of an author to choose how to word their poems is not a trivial matter, at least to me, and it is related to poems. Many long-winded discussions were sparked by controversial comments that weren't offensive per se. While they may be perfectly valid criticisms, the authors of such comments do opine on polarising issues, hence all the verbiage. Expressing an unpopular opinion is a common catalyst for a lengthy discussion. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's fair to dismiss other people's ideas as 'babbling' or deem comments in such lengthy discussions as counterproductive or malicious. What I personally would like to see is a tool that could move all comments into a forum thread because those discussions can be quite convoluted at times. And people aren't bad or disrespectful. It's just that by the time everyone sees that it's gone way longer than it should have the discussion is already too long and comments keep pouring in. It's not malice, it's how human communication works.

As for the list of things that, in your opinion, has gone 'very astray,' how do you propose we change how individuals feel? If people think that we need more accurate rules, that's fine - let's discuss concrete suggestions. If people are wondering if LT is still a place to be, that's normal as well - we all are asking ourselves if certain place is right for us. If people are wondering whether other users are civilized and respectful, what can other users do about the way they feel? Do you honestly believe that the majority of users here are uncivilized or disrespectful? I don't know. I can't question your experience, but in my experience that couldn't be further from the truth. We do have a few bad apples from time to time, but the vast majority (in my experience) are just human: sometimes they get angry, misunderstand things, make mistakes, say things without thinking, hold strong opinions on some issues and refuse other people the right to hold different opinions, etc. If your experience is different, that's okay, but people will be wondering and thinking all sorts of things no matter what you do. You can't please everyone. So what do you propose we do?

I think it would be best if we had some concrete propositions to discuss. I've stated the problems I see with the ones that have already been voiced by BluBird. They said they have a more concrete example that they think might work. I'd be curious to see that. Other than that, I won't comment in this thread any more and will leave more room for other people.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

Alexander, I have the feeling that this discussion is really important though only a few seem to care. I'd like to see us all just get along. Maybe I got something wrong but this whole discussion is about:
- Should we change the rules?
- How do we avoid losing users do to hate speech?

We could go three ways:
- everything stays the same
- we change the rules
- we get rid of the rules because they don't work

When I wrote that "there are some things going very astray" I was thinking that the rules don't work anymore and I thought this whole discussion is about extreme feelings and expressing them. There's nothing wrong in feeling bad feelings like hate. But why are there some of us that just go on a rampage? I am not talking about myself I've never experienced anything I couldn't handle. Nobody on LT had ever been what I consider hateful to me. In my former job I was used to getting "nice" remarks like a priest telling me "you are one of those that will never get to heaven". There had been quite a lot of people yelling at me. I soon realized yelling back just won't do. I said: "If you keep on yelling I'm going to hang up." Of course they didn't listen so I hung up. And again and again. I just wished all those who got hurt just turn off that computer or phone and never respond. After they've calmed down they just can continue.

What I propose we do?
Either tell any new user the rules that could get them into serious trouble or get rid of the rules. No joking: I'd get rid of the rules and after that maybe start anew. If we really need rules they should look like our FAQ. I'd recommend:
-This get's you into trouble
-This will get you banned
-This is how a translation should look like
-This contribution will be deleted

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/bluebird" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1483017">BlueBird</a>
Csatlakozott: 27.12.2020
Thanks everyone for your kind and generous contributions. Just a few clarifications about my previous comments.
 
1- Things can have very different meaning and feelings in different ‘contexts’. In LT comments are supposed to be about the translations or lyrics (or the topic subject, which naturally is about translation and related issues). For a good conversation they need to be ‘unbiased‘. It is good to have pleasantries and small talk (e.g. about food, dance, etc) in the process but the main purpose is having a fair constructive ‘discussion’ about translation, lyrics, etc.
 
For ex. If I’m writing a general text about ethics “People who know nothing should not talk about a language’, although black-and-white and strong in wording, is addressed to no one in particular. However, if I just have had a heated debate with someone who is a native of that language, and then, ‘in this context’, I say that, It strongly implies that I am ‘accusing’ the other person of knowing nothing, while escaping responsibility by using ‘People’. I think the analysis in this thread just showed how this can well be considered a ‘loophole’ in the rule, while it ‘incites harm’ (by shaming).
 
In a piece of satire addressed to a dictator in a newspaper, ‘sarcasm’ can be a powerful tool to defend the disadvantaged. However, in a heated technical discussion on a translation when sometimes people try to ‘prove themselves’, this can become a toxic character assassination.
 

2-I was not talking about every intention of the commenter but a specific one, ‘intention to harm’.Intention to hurt or harm creates a sense of danger which is very strongly processed in the brain in a sort of instinctive level (e.g. see here). It usually starts with a feeling of ‘not being nice’ but when there is an intention, and the person goes on, it can  activates the fight or flight response  and we might get a fight.
 

However due to public consequences an outright fight might have (e.g. those mentioned in the rules), some people go sneaky. There are well-known established ways to do that. The classic book Games People Play is an excellent detailed handbook of those tactics. Many people here, including me, might have seen the game ‘"Now I've Got You, You Son of a Bitch" in LT. Simply highlight (or invent) a trifle issue after losing a ‘argument’ and bring about a new argument where you might possibly ‘compensate’ the original loss or even deny it by saying ‘this (the trifle) was the main point’. When shaming is involved in the transaction, there is a clear indication of ‘intention to harm’.
 
 
 
3- ‘Loopholes’ mentioned before is just examples to show how people can probably do something against a rule without being caught, not a full discussion. A simplistic example is using ‘people’ or ‘someone’ instead of addressing people directly or as in the “People who don’t know anything …’ (implying an accusation in the guise of some fact). These can be understood and judged only in their context (see point 1).
 

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/bluebird" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1483017">BlueBird</a>
Csatlakozott: 27.12.2020
To me, a good set of rules are here about LT staff roles.
 
It has a clear definition of some major terms for each role. For ex. Subsection “what is an Editor?”, provides context and precision. An editor in LT clearly  is not a professional [literary] editor (necessarily) but some LT user chosen by LT to add correct lyrics, working videos, etc.. The section “How I become an editor?” gives the ‘qualifications’ for the job. So, based on those two sections, an editor and his qualifications are defined in a fairly precise and clear manner. This definition seems unequivocal to me.
 
Using the ‘definition’ section, The subsections “What they can do” and “What they can not do” seem well-written rules to me. For ex. rule 3-c that an editor ‘cannot unpublish any page’ is precise and unequivocal. We exactly and without doubt know what ‘editor’ means here and what he can not do. I’ve seen editors wrongfully asking a user to ‘unpublish’ a translation citing some rules. Knowing this rule, the user contacted mods and found out that the cited rule does not apply to that translation. The request was unjustified and the translation remained there.
 
I believe those rules are well-defined, fairly precise and unequivocal regulations about the interactions between LT staff and users. I think this is a fairly proper way to define LT first rule (and other rules regulating different groups of users’ interactions).
 
However, people with legal expertise to write the rules, might propose even better ways to do this.
 
Having the proper ‘form’, the ‘content’ of the rules regulating the issue of hate speech, unwelcomed comments, and other issues can be based on the suggestions in this thread (or upcoming suggestions. There are plenty of suggestions in the previous comments.
 

I believe the first important step is defining hate speech, unwelcomed comment, etc. I think the previously mentioned quoted definition is a good starting point.
 


Цитат:

The laws of some countries describe hate speech as speech, gestures, conduct, writing, or displays that incite violence or prejudicial actions against a group or individuals on the basis of their membership in the group, or which disparage or intimidate a group or individuals 

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫
<a href="/hu/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Csatlakozott: 05.04.2012

So it all boils down to simply being civilized and respectful.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/bluebird" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1483017">BlueBird</a>
Csatlakozott: 27.12.2020

I really wish it could be just that. We can consider that an 'ideal' or the 'end'. I'm afraid there are always a few who choose not to act 'civilized and respectful'.

It is about the 'means' to get close to that 'end': Having well-defined rules (both in 'form' and 'content') to effectively stop hate speech, unwelcomed comments, etc. by those few who choose to use them, as much as possible.

EDIT: Asking people to be 'civilized and respectful' is a very noble and fair thing to do. However, I don't think it is enough. It will be like instead of the whole civil and penal laws in a country, we had just one rule saying that 'People should behave in a civilized, respectful way toward each other that do not endanger peace, safety, security and dignity of the others'.

lt
Administrator
<a href="/hu/translator/lt" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1">lt</a>
Csatlakozott: 27.05.2008

The rules of the site have been formed by many users, and it took many years of activity of the community. Each rule arose from a specific situation, and we'd prefer not to return to those situations. The rules are also needed so that a warning or punishment does not look like a whim of a moderator/administrator. We are ready to extend and change the rules if proposed changes are met positively by active community members.

As for clarifying the wording, it seems to us that subtle nuances will not affect user behavior significantly. But if you offer specific formulations and they are welcomed by the community, of course, we will update according rules.

Regarding off-topic comments under translations, we have a rule "Comments are always welcome, however, please try to avoid off-topic comments ..." In practice, it is quite difficult and energy-consuming to draw a dividing line between "relevant/off-topic". Therefore, if there are no complaints (for example, from the author of the translation), it is easier to let people communicate with each other. But if there is a complaint, then we have a ground to take action.

The "rude / not rude word" approach is based on similar logic. The same word in different contexts and for different people can be rude or not rude. You can insult without any rude words at all. Only common sense helps us to remain a healthy society, despite such a huge difference in cultures and age. Common sense, supported by the rules.

Regarding moving all comments to the forum: technically, this is not difficult to implement, but it is an impact on other people's content, and this should be approached very carefully. Move all at once, or individual comments? If we move them all, then what about useful comments on lyrics/translations? If we move some of them, then who will read and think over hundreds of comments, and then also defend themselves against angry commenters who will be proving that they are all relevant? Plus, the logical sequence of comments, both remaining and moved, can be interrupted.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/vevvev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1405697">vevvev</a>
Csatlakozott: 14.12.2018

I believe that the rules of this site are quite fair and not burdensome. We just need to stick to them and everything will be fine.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Csatlakozott: 19.07.2018

And add to it what Alma said:

Alma Barroca wrote:

So it all boils down to simply being civilized and respectful.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

The way I see it this is all about people knowing how to evade those rules. I've tried it. Not, because I wanted to be mean or because I was pissed. I tried it to see if I can get away with it. I'm telling you it works very, very well.

And Jadis knows it as his "À qui de droit" shows.

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫
<a href="/hu/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Csatlakozott: 05.04.2012

There's been at least one occasion where a user decided they would not follow the rules/guidelines because it was I who wrote a specific part of them. It's more than just *sticking to them*, unfortunately.

Moderator Alex the Translator
<a href="/hu/translator/alexander-laskavtsev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1248685">Alexander Laskavtsev</a>
Csatlakozott: 06.06.2015
Flopsi wrote:

I've tried it. Not, because I wanted to be mean or because I was pissed. I tried it to see if I can get away with it. I'm telling you it works very, very well.

You mean that case when you were rude to me in public? Was it your social experiment?
Or were you sincere then? Wink smile Teeth smile

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/vevvev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1405697">vevvev</a>
Csatlakozott: 14.12.2018
Alma Barroca wrote:

It's more than just *sticking to them*, unfortunately.

In my opinion, it is impossible to do more on this issue than “stick to them”.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017
Alexander Laskavtsev wrote:

You mean that case when you were rude to me in public? Was it your social experiment?
Or were you sincere then? Wink smile

Yes, it had been you and yes, you had been my social experiment. You had just been perfect. You are a mod and asking me some funky questions. Was I serious? Yes and no. Usually I would just not have answered but I wanted to see if anything would happen. I even wanted something to happen. I would have been glad to be banned for a while just to bring this into focus. Hidden rudeness is still rude. Sigh, but no, nothing at all happend. Was it such a big surprise? No, of course not.

Moderator Alex the Translator
<a href="/hu/translator/alexander-laskavtsev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1248685">Alexander Laskavtsev</a>
Csatlakozott: 06.06.2015
Flopsi wrote:

Yes, it had been you and yes, you had been my social experiment. You had just been perfect. You are a mod and asking me some funky questions. Was I serious? Yes and no. Usually I would just not have answered but I wanted to see if anything would happen. I even wanted something to happen. I would have been glad to be banned for a while just to bring this into focus. Hidden rudeness is still rude. Sigh, but no, nothing at all happend. Was it such a big surprise? No, of course not.

Well, thanks God it became clear, for I just couldn't believe my eyes then. I thought that I broke some unwritten taboo in conversating with germans, or something Teeth smile
So, it's time to clarify some points.

1) To begin with, you choose a wrong target. Really. I always try to be extremely polite with anyone, making no difference whether s(he) is rude or not. Mea culpa!.. And never "shoot" without a warning.
2) My first thought was: "Hm, this person is just some crazy idiot... let's look at the account a little closer"
3) After checking your account I found that:
a) you are an editor, and I don't think that an idiot can become an editor here (at least I don't know such cases);
b) then I checked briefly how you speak to other members, and found that your reputation is white like the first snow, so you are not an idiot for sure.
4) Well, smells like a provocation. I'd better reply politely and see what will happen. You were silent. And even put like on my polite answer.

Resume:
- If you were NOT YOU, I would have definitely reported you to the admins, because (OH, SURPRISE!) we cannot ban for good whoever we want to. We can only REPORT the troublemakers to admins. We can ban only obvious spammers with no translations. Definitely we cannot ban respectful editors of our own will

- I felt the provocation from your side and decided not to play in your games and just to stop the conversation.
My credo: "Avoid the scandals at all costs". You may think it is wrong for moderator, but... these are admins, who decided whether I worthy to be a moderator or not.

- You offended me personally. If this ruddeness was addressed to another person I would have react completely different and you would have become very known to admins. But then my desicion was just to cease the fire. An in my opinion the main debt of moderator is to be a "fireguard" rather than "punisher". People, please tell me if I am wrong.

- You can get away from trouble just once, or twice (if you are extremely lucky). Next time I, or some other moderator (who can be much less patient than I) will look at you with double attention and you will be at least reported with subsequent consequences . It's like making a ticketless fare. Theoretically you can be lucky, but most likely NOT. So I would not shout so loudly "IT WORKS!"

P.S.
There are no rules, which can make everyone happy. But you are likely will not become happy if this site become a place where all the rules are followed strictly and literally. It will be like a monastery or a prison. Anyone who comes here must be ready to be offended. We are a community of mostly creative people. With temperament and passion. And it's normal to feel hate or to be rude sometimes. And moderators should try calm the troublemakers down first, and only then to punish the most incorrigible. That's what I think.

Please feel free to object me if you disagree.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

So I'm lucky because I didn't get reported only because I'm an editor? This is wrong. Can't you see? Or maybe I wasn't rude at all, just picking a song of Rammstein to say "turn away" like Lindemann says in the song and not "fuck you" as the video or live performances might hint? This is only a point of view or isn't it?
And it's wrong to let Jadis get away with his nice little poem when everybody knows it was a stab against Pierre. A lot of people saw the fire, saw the smoke, but I just didn't see any fireguards.
So why do we need those rules if some just can sneak around those rules? I don't care if it makes one or all happy. I don't care if some cheaters know how to avoid them. All I care about is that everybody should be treated equally regardless if they are an editor or above them or below them. Wrong will always be wrong regardless if you can see it or not.

Moderator Alex the Translator
<a href="/hu/translator/alexander-laskavtsev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1248685">Alexander Laskavtsev</a>
Csatlakozott: 06.06.2015

Then you are an incorrigible idealist.
And, unfortunately, you get me wrong again: not because you are an editor, but because you are "an editor with a crystal clear reputation who decided to play provocative games because of some bad mood"

And I have another question to the admins [@Lt]: do moderator have a right to make his own decisions which goes in contradiction with current rules, but in accordance with common sense? Do moderator has the right to forgive (for the 1st time) the rulebreaker of his own free will (of course, with warning to the bad guy)?

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/skirlet-hutsen" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1363638">Skirlet Hutsen</a>
Csatlakozott: 03.12.2017

Excusez-moi de m'en mêler, mais pourquoi ne pas laisser certains membres régler leurs différends entre eux? Tant que leurs échanges ne deviennent pas contraires aux règles existantes.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Csatlakozott: 01.07.2018

Oh please, stop it with my stabs against Pierre, I DON'T dream of him at nights ! (and I hope he doesn't dream of me neither...)

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

So Jadis, since noone else still seems to care I have to beg you one more time. Please deleate "À qui de droit".

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Csatlakozott: 19.07.2018

It’s not true. I care. I believe Philippe didn’t mean harm, but harm was done. So, basically we’re between a rock and a hard place: caring how your words affect someone (rightly or not) and censorship. For me, the human aspect is important and I hate the censorship. Do I wish this piece wasn’t written - absolutely! Should he deleted it - it’s up to the author.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/skirlet-hutsen" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1363638">Skirlet Hutsen</a>
Csatlakozott: 03.12.2017

Personnellement, leurs relations ne m'intéressent pas le moins du monde. Aucun d'eux n'est mon ami, même virtuel. Mais je trouve que le texte en soi n'est pas mal, on peut y voir autre chose (surtout pour ceux qui n'ont pas suivi les altercations personnelles): une dame qui éconduit un soupirant trop insistant, par exemple, et comme exercice de style c'est réussi.

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫
<a href="/hu/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Csatlakozott: 05.04.2012

☕☕☕☕

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Csatlakozott: 01.07.2018

I HAVE asked a mod to delete it, and he answered me that he could see no reason for it, and thus would not do it. I explained it on the page. I won't eat my hat nor commit suicide because of some people's paranoia.You don't like it, so don't read it. I have nothing else to declare and more interesting things to care of.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

He? So you've got a name? Would you share that name?

lt
Administrator
<a href="/hu/translator/lt" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1">lt</a>
Csatlakozott: 27.05.2008
Alexander Laskavtsev wrote:

And I have another question to the admins [@Lt]: do moderator have a right to make his own decisions which goes in contradiction with current rules, but in accordance with common sense? Do moderator has the right to forgive (for the 1st time) the rulebreaker of his own free will (of course, with warning to the bad guy)?

[@Alexander Laskavtsev] Yes, that's what we call common sense. And if other mods do not mind. Public or private warning about the rules is needed anyway.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

Could any Mod please delete this?
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/jadis-qui-de-droit-lyrics.html

Why? Not because any rules were broken but because author requested it so to contribute to social stability and to peace.

<a href="/hu/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Csatlakozott: 08.08.2020

WTF? There are some valuable translations and discussions of this one. We all have a stake in it.
Mods! Don't delete it!

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

There are some of us that want it to be gone and anyone who would like to keep it can go on and save that poem, those translations and discussions for his, her or their personal amusement.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/skirlet-hutsen" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1363638">Skirlet Hutsen</a>
Csatlakozott: 03.12.2017

Соглашусь с тобой. Ну чего прицепились к этому стиху?! Тут есть и ненавистнические, и матерные - много хуже, но их почему-то не удаляют и не требуют удалять.

<a href="/hu/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Csatlakozott: 08.08.2020

To #81
Isn't it ass-backward? How about you don't read it for your personal not being triggered?

<a href="/hu/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Csatlakozott: 08.08.2020

[@Jadis] Philippe, if you buckle under pressure and delete it, say goodbye to my respect.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Csatlakozott: 19.07.2018

Philippe already said there are more interesting things to do. Please don’t bait him with the loss of your respect…
One thing to be clear - this poem triggered an emotional, if we are clear - psychological, effect on people who were NOT its target. It is distasteful, but I agree with you and Inna, so just stop looking at it.
I used to convulse seeing songs praising Stalin, or comments in defense of trump - I stopped looking! I cannot convince you by the withdrawal of my respect, Igor and MZ, and I should not threaten it. Nether should you.

Andrea and everyone who is upset by this “masterpiece” - visualize it stoned…decimated…it is unable to breach your defense shield.

<a href="/hu/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Csatlakozott: 08.08.2020

to #85
D, how many times do I have to tell you that when anybody tells me what I should or should not do - I am immediately triggered.
Was that your goal? Who the hell is MZ?
And I agree with you that there's no worse pornography in the world than songs praising Stalin. It still has to be allowed...

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫
<a href="/hu/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Csatlakozott: 05.04.2012

I lost track on why it was brought up, but anyway. We actually already discussed Jadis's poem among us. I can't disclose what was exactly said by whom, but as a team (well, at least the Mods who spoke their minds about it) we decided it could remain - though I can say for sure that I, Juan, really think it was not published in an adequate moment (you'll understand me).

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Csatlakozott: 19.07.2018

Igor, my goal is never to trigger anyone. And you can well understand that you were telling Jadis what he should do lest you withdraw your respect. The rest we can figure out in PM. Alma already succinctly answered and discussion is going in circles. Would that I had the magic wand, I’d make this poem disappear for those offended and visible to those who found it entertaining(?) …

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Csatlakozott: 13.04.2017

Hmm... I wish that masterpiss were about lesbians, but good people told us it was aimed at Pierre...
And he has read it as far as I know. So, it's a bit too late to purge...
Or is there a slightest chance he will continue reading it every day for hate's sake?
I don't think so...
Hatred always degrades to shame. But it's a pretty long process, even if nobody stirs...

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Csatlakozott: 19.07.2018

It was 100% not aimed at Pierre. Timing was awful. Material was awful.
Knowing you a bit, B, I was hoping to see something like can’t keep sh-t in or bottle it…😉

Moderator Alex the Translator
<a href="/hu/translator/alexander-laskavtsev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1248685">Alexander Laskavtsev</a>
Csatlakozott: 06.06.2015

Guys, we all lost a track of the discussion and it has huge chances to be drowned in offtopic thoughts. Please suggest something about the rules, or let's just close the topic, if we've got nothing to say anymore.

We can, actually create a button, blocking some unwelcomed content for all who need such a button. Or even make the unwanted member just disappeared personally to the one who pressed that button. Let's make a dark fiction of the "Black Mirror" series real!.. Wink smile

<a href="/hu/translator/drigor" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1465978">Dr_Igor</a>
Csatlakozott: 08.08.2020

to #90
D, maybe you can explain to me (in PM) what was so awful about timing and material. And where is your IMHO?

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Csatlakozott: 13.04.2017

You'd better make a dislike button for comments. Of such a type that if pressed once, it would make the text 90% grey... and so on until the 10-th dislike would make it 'hidden' (unless highlighted, of course)... Wink smile

Moderator Alex the Translator
<a href="/hu/translator/alexander-laskavtsev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1248685">Alexander Laskavtsev</a>
Csatlakozott: 06.06.2015
Brat wrote:

You'd better make a dislike button for comments. Of such a type that if pressed once, it would make the text 90% grey... and so on until the 10-th dislike would make it 'hidden' (unless highlighted, of course)... Wink smile

It's too complex I guess. Social rating of any kind creates a toxic atmosphere. IMO it's better when everyone decides personally what to read and whom to speak with. Otherwise some group of members decides for others whose opinion is possibly different.

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Csatlakozott: 13.04.2017
Alexander Laskavtsev wrote:

Otherwise some group of members decides for others whose opinion is possibly different.

Likewise, it's exactly what happens in our everyday life. And few are those who give a whack about this...

Moderator poromboessara 👨🏻‍🏫
<a href="/hu/translator/alma-barroca" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Csatlakozott: 05.04.2012

We're slowly becoming a Reddit community, it seems Wink smile

Moderator Alex the Translator
<a href="/hu/translator/alexander-laskavtsev" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1248685">Alexander Laskavtsev</a>
Csatlakozott: 06.06.2015

You are right. But our everyday life is not the best example to follow Teeth smile

Super Member
<a href="/hu/translator/almitra" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1432222">Almitra</a>
Csatlakozott: 01.09.2019

I was under the impression that you wanted everyone to get along. Creative differences don't seem so trivial and creative people don't look so fragile now, do they? That's what I've been trying to tell you and the topic starter. And sometimes the original content can transcend its initial purpose, especially when other people chose to translate or transform it. I don't think it's right to delete the poem just like that, negating the efforts of the translators. Plus, something tells me the author of the original may have been pressured into requesting the deletion of his poem. Jadis and I have our fair share of differences, but I will defend his right to speak his mind just like I'd do so for anyone else. He's added his comment to the poem, the mods have decided that the poem can stay, the translators don't seem to appreciate the idea of losing the poem and their translations. So why do we need to request its removal again? I mean, if he's 100% sure that it should go away, fine, but let us not pressure him as the author into deleting poems not everyone can appreciate.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017
Brat wrote:

I wish that masterpiss were about lesbians

Masterpiss - love it. The rest of it I just ignore!

BlackSea4ever wrote:

It was 100% not aimed at Pierre. Timing was awful

So it has just been pure coincidence? But there is no such thing like coincidence. If I recall this right it had been Jadis admitting he jumped on the first rule saying "No insults are allowed, EXCEPT for within lyrics". Better think twice. Had it been pure coincidence he published an very old poem right now that was so very well fitting to the situation?

Alexander Laskavtsev wrote:

we all lost a track of the discussion

No, we haven't because that's what this discussion had been all about. It's about people getting hurt.

Mr. Almitra wrote:

I will defend his right to speak his mind

Oh, I'd like that. So once again let's get rid of those rules because it seems people aren't unable to speak their minds without insulting each other.

Sorry, I'm not really good with words to make my point of view clear to everyone. But at least I've tried. No, I don't care if anybody gets along, love each other and live happily ever after. I care about tolerance, sticking to the rules and not sneaking around it and most of it I hate double standards being applied.

Senior Member
<a href="/hu/translator/nemo-aemo" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1491045">nemo aemo</a>
Csatlakozott: 25.02.2021

Don't bother. I'm out of here.

Editor Soldier of Love
<a href="/hu/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1331196">Flopsi</a>
Csatlakozott: 12.03.2017

Don't leave me! Please, Pierre, stay! Things can get better if we stand up for what's rigtht.

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