Martin Luther - Es bringt euch alle Seligkeit (traduzione in Inglese)

Revisione appena richiesta

Es bringt euch alle Seligkeit

Es bringt euch alle Seligkeit
die Gott der Vater hat bereit’
daß ihr mit uns im Himmelreich
sollt leben nun und ewiglich.
So merket nun das Zeichen recht:
die Krippen, Windelein so schlecht.
Da findet ihr das Kind gelegt,
das alle Welt erhält und trägt.
Des laßt uns alle fröhlich sein
und mit den Hirten gehn hinein,
zu sehen, was Gott uns hat beschert,
mit seinem lieben Sohn verehrt.
Postato da Hades21 Dom, 08/07/2018 - 15:33
Allinea i paragrafi
traduzione in Inglese

It brings to all of you salvation

It brings you all the joy
which God the Father has provided,
that you may live now and forever
with us in the Kingdom of Heaven.
So now take proper note of the sign:
the manger, the swaddling clothes so poor.
There you will find the child lain,
who holds and carries the whole world.
For this let us all be glad
And enter with the shepherds,
to see what God has bestowed upon us,
honoured with his beloved son.
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Postato da michealt Mar, 10/07/2018 - 16:35
Aggiunto su richiesta di Hades21
Ultima modifica michealt Dom, 15/07/2018 - 21:57
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Konanen    Sab, 14/07/2018 - 19:04

Tapadh leibh, a Mhìcheil! That is a good job translating.

I do have some minor corrections, though:
1) “alle” refers to “Seligkeit”, cf. how if it were to refer to “euch”, it would have to be in the dative case (i.e., euch allen). Can you work out the correct translation with that in mind?

2) “bereit’” is an abbreviated version (to fit the metrum) of “bereitet”. In German “Freude bereiten” is a set phrase that means to bring joy.

3) The joy that is being brought to all of these people is a consequence of them going to the Heavens with all of the others. Your translation makes it seem as though they needed to feel joy, in order to live in the Heavens.

4) “Windelein” seems to be a diminutive of “Windel”, diaper, although I would have written it “Windellein”. It could also be the diminutive of “Wind”, same word in English, but that makes no sense.

5) “erhalten” does not just mean to receive, but also to preserve, “tragen” means to carry. Furthermore, the subject is the child lying in the manger.

6) “bescheren” is a very festive word, while “to grant” sounds very neutrally distanced. For example, the time at Christmas Eve, when presents are unpacked in Germany, is called “Bescherung”. Therefore, this word has a very stunning, appreciative, festive resonance. I think better fits for the translation could be to bestow, allot, but that is up to you.

Keep up the nice work. Slàn leibh!

michealt    Sab, 14/07/2018 - 23:08

Besten Dank, Konanen

On 1, that was a careless mistake by me. I've tried to fix it.
On 2, I'm not sure how much change is needed. I've changed the verb but that's all. I dont think "Freude bereiten" is really applicable for translation here.
On 3, I don't see it. As there's no reference to feeling joy it doesn't seem to put a dependance on that. But I've shuffled it around a little to try to make sure it can't be understood like that.
On 4, I chose the phrase most likely to be recognised by English-speaking christians. Merket nun das Zeichen, Krippen, windelein sees to be pretty direct referece to chapter 2 verse 12 of the Gospel according to St Luke. The most common phrase English translations of that verse is "swaddling clothes", the next most common is "swaddling cloths", then "bands of cloth", "swaddling bands", and "cloths", "narrow strips of cloth" in decreasingorder of frequency. Swaddling clothes is also used in many Christmas carols and hymns. I'm not aware of any translaton using "diaper", despite it having been used in other contexts in English since about seven centuries ago.
Other words ending in l add ein instead of lein for diminutive, for example Mädel -> Mädelein
On 5: I guess treating "das" in the last line as as an accusative case relative pronoun was a mistake even more careless as the one at 1 above, as Welt can't be the subject as it's feminine not neuter. I'm clearly too much out of practise at German.
On 6: I think "bestow" is proably the right choice.

I'd appreciate you letting me know what you think of the revised version.

Konanen    Sab, 14/07/2018 - 23:43

Bitte sehr, nichts zu danken. By the way, I am not seeing any changes to the translation.

Ceart ma-thà, faiceamaid e! I forgot to mention that “Seligkeit” refers to happiness or joy (cf. the adjective selig). In Christianity’s context, the word has a slightly different connotation of being eternally grateful and happy (to be in the Heavens). Incidentally, the verb “seligsprechen” means to beatify, i.e. “to pronounce someone eternally happy, because they have done so much good in their life that they cannot be but at god’s side”. I am not sure the English word salvation actually has the connotation of joy, or whether it is just like... you know: Phew, my hide’s been saved!

I, for one, would translate the first stanza completely as:

“It brings you all the joy, / which God the Father has provided, / that you should live now and forever / with us in the Kingdom of Heaven.”

Regarding 4), that’s cool. If there is a specific word for it, then use that. I did not know of its existence. By the way “Mädel” is already a diminutive of (original) “Magd”. The “-l” does not belong to the stem. This is not the case in “Windel”, where the stem in OHG seems to be “*windila”.

5) Happens to the best of us; and you are juggling so many languages in your head. Little mistakes are bound to happen! But you get always get to re-discover little elements in a language, and isn’t that just fun? Regular smile

Do not forget, the translation here should be “There (will) you find the child lain / that (shall) preserve(s) and carr(y/ies) the whole world.”

6) Alrightie then! This change, I *do* see. But the rest is... the same, still? Chan eil fios agam, ’s chan eil mi ’ga thuigsinn!

michealt    Dom, 15/07/2018 - 22:01

On the first stanza, what "Seligkeit" means is crucial. I should have taken "Selig" + "keit" but I didn't, instead I remembered it as meaning "salvation" (probably in "ewige Seligkeit" from some religious text or other) - if I'd remembered is as "joyfulness" or "bliss" I would have understood your first comment. But "that you should" won't work at the beginning of the third line, because it sounds like a certain result of the previous lines, which is what your original commert objected to. I'm not sure how to avoid that in English with drifting a bit away from the German, but maybe "that you may" would have the right idea,

I remember "Mägdelein" as the diminutive of Magd, so I thought Mädel was a distinct word. Well, one lives and learns.

Discovering new things in a language is always fun. I find myslelf discovering them in English and in Gàidhlig as well as in the languages that I have had to try to learn. It looks as if when you pointed thatt one out I tookl it in and then didn't correct the mistake.

Where is future and where present is always interesting in English - most linguists now recognise that the so-called English present tense is actually a non-past tense that can also be used for the future. I think that the first of three verbs you suggest could be explicitly future can reasonably be that, but the second and third should be simple non-past. Clearly German too has non-past rather than present, as all three are "present" in German.

Càit' an d'fhuair a' ghàidhlig? Chan 'eil i aig móran daoine Gearmailtich!
Uair eile, bithinn sona d'aithris air an atharrachadh a leughadh.

Konanen    Ven, 20/07/2018 - 05:24

Yes, indeed: Seligkeit is a difficult word to deal with, since mostly it is used in religious context; and therein, beatification and joy, eternal bliss, etc., all come together, sort of.

You are right in that "Mägdelein" is the regular diminutive form of "Magd". However, the word "Mädchen", as well as its alternative form "Mädel" used in the South, are derived from a Lower German form of "Magd" (cf. "Maid", which is a maid in English). You also have "Mädelein" as a third alternative diminutive form. That is also the reason why the word for girl is neuter in German, and not a femininum.

Yes, German prefers the present tense as a narrative form for future actions, as well. Which, I think, is less the case in English. That is, in German, the present tense in narration might be completely underdefined for past and future, as well.

Cha d' fhuair mi i fhathast, tha mi ga ionnsachadh. Och, tha corra dhuine; co-dhiù, tha an Acadamaidh na Gàidhlig sa' Ghearmailt againn cuideachd!
Chan eil fios agam nach tuig mi a' rosgrann sin; you'd like me to comment on your modifications?

michealt    Sab, 21/07/2018 - 00:55

Yes, you read the last line of my message correctly. My German is a bit of a mess and deteriorating through not getting used often enough, and I hope that doing some translations and getting suggestions to improve them will at least stop its decay and perhaps even improve it a bit.
But your "nach" should be "an" ("nach" makes sense but the double negative is often avoided in phrases like "Chan 'eil fiosam an duig mi")

Konanen    Sab, 21/07/2018 - 01:10

Tha mi a' tuigsinn, tapadh leat! Tha an eadar-teangachadh math 's ceart gu leòr a-nis!

Hansi K_Lauer    Lun, 16/07/2018 - 01:45

My online dictionary proposes "beatitude" for "Seligkeit".
For the title:
"alle" refers to "all beatitude" (one could imagine)
not to "all the people" (everybody)
[->It brings you all (the) beatitude]

>"that you may live now and forever"
how about:
that thou shalt live now and forever (?)

>"mit seinem lieben Sohn verehrt."
"verehrt" here is just another term meaning the same as "beschert".
"verehrt" in this sense means: given in/with honour