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Translating without Judging

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Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/achampnator" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1317347">Achampnator</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.11.2016
Pending moderation

I recently made the achievement that I can't translate songs anymore
without being judged if I'm a Nazi or not and that I don't find okay I recently translated the Horst-Wessel Song
and then shortly after some people (I forgot the names) judged about me because of this translation
and that I don't find okay I want to decide by my own what kind of Songs I translate and what not
and if the people read these lines who judged me I tell you now STOP JUDGING PEOPLE BY THEIR TRANSLATIONS
IT'S NOT OKAY AND IT DON'T MIRRORS THEIR ATTITUDE TO THE POLITICAL TOPICS!!!!!
Thank You for reading...

Achampnator

PS: I deleted the translation cause it was too dumb for me to leave it that way

Russian asset
<a href="/it/translator/uncommon" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1414669">Schnurrbrat</a>
Iscritto dal: 07.03.2019

Well, I guess you need a reply or advice from a more seasoned LT user than me, but in my opinion there are so many beautiful songs and interesting, demanding lyrics to be translated, why bother with some stuff, which will certainly rage someone?
Anyway, it's your judgement in balancing your freedom of speech rights with possibility to enrage some folks with this material.
I would read/translate any stuff of that sort and put it in my drawer / or in a shredder, rather than on my LT-page. I believe you was driven by your curiosity, rather than a will to bring more attention to this text; but it would be normal to expect that someone will think otherwise.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/achampnator" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1317347">Achampnator</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.11.2016

Thats why I think to take some steps away from it but I find it just poor that people just take the right to judge other people by their songs that these other people translate and not by their knowledge they got about these people
Sorry but its really poor and in my opinion not acceptable...

Member
<a href="/it/translator/almitra" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1432222">Almitra</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.09.2019

It's real simple. When you translate something, whether you share the views of the original author or not, you help to spread their message. And it's part of a translator's responsibility to make a judgement call every time they pick a text to translate. At the end of the day, it's your name that will be attached to the text as well, so choose wisely. And unless you're a kid, you should have a pretty good understanding of what's okay and not okay in this day and age. So if you choose something edgy or unacceptable to translate, people have every right to judge you for it. After all, it's not your day job, and you don't have a boss telling you what to translate, so the choice is entirely yours. Own it. And please, we're all adults here. The vast majority of people will not be wasting their time on things they disagree with or find appalling. If you do, then it's only reasonable for others to assume that you share the views of the author or at the very least feel like they're worth your time and effort.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/achampnator" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1317347">Achampnator</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.11.2016

Thank You now I know what side you choosed you are on their Side and not mine THANK YOU 😡
I always had an suspicion that the people here are just unfair...

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/vera-jahnke" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1416993">Vera Jahnke</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.03.2019

Dear Aaron,

is there really a reason to be so upset? Maybe I have not read all the comments regarding the songs in question, but I have not seen any comment, in which you were accused to be a Nazi.

After I left LT in March due to a "Nazi"-song, you were one of the first persons, who gave me support. And that (and the removal of the song of course) was the reason for me to come back. So thank you again for your great help, Aaron!

So, after you have translated the "Hirohito"-song, the only thing I did was to add a information about Hirohito – because I thought that you have translated this song without knowing all the facts. And this I have written into my comment.

I think you have made a lot of bad experiences here, but I really wish that it will not become more, because you are my friend!

So if you ask for a translation of the Hirohito-song into Chinese, after millions of Chinese people (and others) were cruelly killed by Hirohito's soldiers, what do you think people from China will say, if they read your request? – I hope they won't! But it is up to you, it is your decision...

Moreover I agree with Schnurrbrat and Almitra (Alexander), they have written helpful comments without any accusation. So please calm down and realize that there are many people who are on your side!

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.07.2018

I'm interested in Horst-Wessel Lied just as I would be in any historical song. If anybody wants to forbid it, they should remember that the Nazis burnt books in Germany before war... so if they want to behave like Nazis, let them please say it frankly.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.07.2018

That's the right way to do, IMHO : give the text, check it (so that there would be no errors in it), and explain the context in notes. And then of course translate it, because if somebody doesn't understand German, how is he supposed to have an advice about it?

Editor True-to-original translations.
<a href="/it/translator/michaelna" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1257575">MichaelNa</a>
Iscritto dal: 29.08.2015

You can translate anything you want and if you choose a piece that doesn’t align with your beliefs and you think that someone might find offensive you can distance yourself from it by including something like this in the “Author’s comments” section:
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this translation are those of the original author(s) and do not necessarily reflect my own beliefs or position.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/vera-jahnke" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1416993">Vera Jahnke</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.03.2019

Some time ago I have translated "Crusader" by Chris de Burgh. At the time it was written, it was relatively (!) harmless, although the historical facts were completely different: the crusaders were not glorious at all and Saladin was definitely not an always drunken and whoring monster.

After finishing it, I of course decided not to publish it, because that would be oil to the fire of the present political situation, it would create even more hate.

And this decision not to publish a hateful and historical wrong song has nothing, nothing to do with the "burning of books"! – My intention was to reduce hate, not to create more of it, as the Nazis did, when they burnt those books.

So I agree with Deanna: it doesn't matter which monsters you glorify – without embedding it in the correct historical context it is extremely dangerous. And every song has not only an information but also a message!

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/achampnator" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1317347">Achampnator</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.11.2016

Then I can as good as discussing also report all such songs

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/achampnator" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1317347">Achampnator</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.11.2016

Also remember about the discussion under the Page from Adolf Hitler: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/adolf-hitler-lyrics.html

This is literally the same now here

Member
<a href="/it/translator/almitra" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1432222">Almitra</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.09.2019
Achampnator wrote:

Thank You now I know what side you choosed you are on their Side and not mine THANK YOU 😡
I always had an suspicion that the people here are just unfair...

I don't have a side but that of reason, and I don't subscribe to any ideology. I deal with individual ideas and individuals, not package tenets and groups.

In your original post, you were implying that people are being unfair to you and that you shouldn't be judged as a person based on the texts you choose to translate.

I simply tried to tell you that:
- there's nothing unfair about assuming that a person who chooses to attach their name to a certain text and invest their time and effort into translating it, thus helping spread the message, at leasts finds the content palatable enough to work with;
- it's hardly reasonable to expect that you can do what you please (whatever it is) and not be judged for it.

Other commentators have told you that it's a good idea to distance yourself from a text if you don't share the author's views. But then again, it's not like you have to translate anything. No one can force you. So choose wisely, own your choice and keep in mind that, as a translator, you help to spread the message, whether you intend to or not.

Finally, I apply the same standard to myself. And I understand my responsibility as a translator. Which is why you won't see me translating, for instance, the texts whose authors, fighting political battles, have lost their humanity in the process, no matter which side of the argument they represent.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/achampnator" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1317347">Achampnator</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.11.2016

That's why I never would translate the things from Hitler... cause I'm completely against him

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80-%D0%BC%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365992">Alexander Frei</a>
Iscritto dal: 23.12.2017

Yeap, l added hitler's poems, because these poems are interesting for those who love history. I support you, Achampnator - l am FREI for god's sake and l am against censorship.

But you live in Česká republika, as far as I know. And as a guy from Western countrie you have to know what is political correctness. It's ofthen aggressive and pointless - for example everybody can find Horst Wesseln song on another website. Remember history: medieval censorship existed before, nazi's censorship existed before, now we have another censorship - many people never really do change, many people so love any kind of censorship

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016

I do not share your opinion, Jadis. It is true it is something historical, but this HW-song is forbidden in Germany and it is illegal to use it. Therefore, no publishig or translating

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016

but you did

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/77seestern77" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1406612">77seestern77</a>
Iscritto dal: 23.12.2018

Hey Aaron, ich bin relativ angepisst!

Ich habe die Diskussion bis nach dem Löschen der Seite verfolgt und habe dich gegen eine kleine!!! Infragestellung bezüglich deiner eigenen politischen Einstellung deutlich in Schutz genommen!

Was das jetzt hier soll entzieht sich mir!

Deine Beweggründe bleiben mir schleierhaft.

ich setzte hier nochmals den Längeren der beiden an dich geschriebenen Kommentare rein. Es standen vier oder fünf kurze weitere von, mit dir und mir zusammen, drei Usern darunter. Wenn dir solche Antworten auf die Übersetzung eines wirklich ätzenden Liedes schon zu viel sind und du keine differenzierten Schlüsse aus meinem Anliegen ziehen kannst und dann wegen einer wirklich sehr kleinen Kritik eines anderen Users hier einen auf Mimimi machst, tut es mir wirklich sehr leid für dich!

Doch jetzt kommt mein größter Kritikpunkt. Mir scheint, als geht es dir hier nur um Effekthascherei. Und jetzt kannst du dich gerne, wenn du möchtest, auch von mir in eine Opferrolle gedrängt fühlen. Aber ganz im Ernst. Da stellst du dich dann selber rein.

Sorry für die deutlichen Worte, aber entweder habe ich hier richtig was verpasst und liege völlig daneben, dann tut es mir leid, oder aber du spinnst dir richtig einen zusammen! Da kommt bei mir dann die Frage nach dem „Warum“ auf. Das sehe ich leider nur den Sinn in einer möglichen Reaktion deines Gegenübers.

Und sorry, dazu habe ich in dieser Form eigentlich keine Lust! Reagiere hier aber dennoch, da du es selbst in die Öffentlichkeit stellst, ohne aber die ganze Geschichte darzulegen.

To the english language users, sorry, my english is not well enough to write this in english. I made this letter open, because i wrote and watched to the discussion after the release of the translation from aaron to the end. And i don´t get any answers to my letter neither in a PN nor in the open discussion, but a begin of this tpoic in this way… . If you want translate my post by GT.

This was my second comment to Aaron´s explanation why it is ok to publish such lyric translations:
The other comments was verry short and only in one was a littel question to his own political opinion from an other user.

"Hey Aaron, ich glaube, dein Unterbewusstsein hat dir schon einen Wink gegeben. Der von dir verwendete Ausdruck lautet eigentlich: "Mehr ODER weniger"
Bei den einigen mehr, so wie auch bei dir. Bei den anderen weniger. Ich selbst kenne Menschen, die dieses Lied "gefeiert" haben. Was am rechten Rand abgeht ist auch dir sicher nicht entgangen.
Sie brennen darauf, dieses Kapitel als "Fliegenschiss der deutschen Geschichte" abzutun. Ich da eher so: Kein Vegeben, und erst recht kein Vergessen
Abschließend eine Fragestellung, welche du nicht mir beantworten sollst, sondern dir, mit noch ner Anmerkung:
Was glaubst du, wer "freut" sich über solch eine Übersetzung? Wer wird sie für sich nutzen. ggf kopieren und weiter verwenden? Irgend etwas in mir sagt mir, es werden kaum Historiker darunter sein. Außer vielleicht verdrehte Geschichtslehrer, die in den Osten der Republik geflüchtet sind und sich dort Landolf Ladig alias Bernd Höcke alias Björniboy oder so nennen. Schau dir mal das Video an. Vielleicht erkennst du ihn wieder. Schau dir die Fahnen an vor denen er steht. Wären die anderen legal, sie würden auch auf diesem Video zu sehen sein. Das ist genau der Schlag Menschen, der dieses Lied abfeiert. Schau dir die Wahlergebnisse an. Es gibt genügend Menschen, die das zumindest billigend in Kauf nehmen. Es ist leider nur "oder weniger" schlichte Vergangenheit... . Wie widerlich uns eine solche Einstellung auch erscheinen mag. Keinen Fußbreit und schon recht keinen Gefallen. In meinen Augen hast du, wenn jemanden, mit deiner ÜS solchen Typen einen Gefallen getan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehca0UFFP8g
Lgseestern🌈🦄"

LGseestern🌈🦄

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016
Vera Jahnke wrote:

So if you ask for a translation of the Hirohito-song into Chinese, after millions of Chinese people (and others) were cruelly killed by Hirohito's soldiers, what do you think people from China will say, if they read your request? – I hope they won't! But it is up to you, it is your decision...

I agree, one should reflect what one is doing to others before acting

Moreover I agree with Schnurrbrat and Almitra (Alexander), they have written helpful comments without any accusation. So please calm down and realize that there are many people who are on your side!

I am NOT on A.'s side, for me he is at least immature and imprudent

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/77seestern77" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1406612">77seestern77</a>
Iscritto dal: 23.12.2018

No jadis! I cannot agree! This type of guys would destroy my way of life! In my constitution of a democratic state is wroten: "I shall kill both
by word and by deed, by vote and by my own hand - if i can- anyone who overthrows democracy." Therefore i do not want not be set by you on the same chair like a nazi! The song is forbidden in germany and i support this! Thank you for your understanding in advance!
LG seestern🌈🦄

Editor - Sculptor of Language
<a href="/it/translator/hansi-klauer" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1249237">Hansi K_Lauer</a>
Iscritto dal: 11.06.2015
Achampnator wrote:

That's why I never would translate the things from Hitler... cause I'm completely against him

Achampnator, if I may ask you:
What was your motivation to translate the Horst-Wessel-Lied?

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016
Vera Jahnke wrote:

Some time ago I have translated "Crusader" by Chris de Burgh. At the time it was written, it was relatively (!) harmless, although the historical facts were completely different: the crusaders were not glorious at all and Saladin was definitely not an always drunken and whoring monster.

After finishing it, I of course decided not to publish it, because that would be oil to the fire of the present political situation, it would create even more hate.

And this decision not to publish a hateful and historical wrong song has nothing, nothing to do with the "burning of books"! – My intention was to reduce hate, not to create more of it, as the Nazis did, when they burnt those books.

So I agree with Deanna: it doesn't matter which monsters you glorify – without embedding it in the correct historical context it is extremely dangerous. And every song has not only an information but also a message!

Bravo, Vera, this is the right way: If one detects that the contents do not mirror the own attitudes one should refrain.
If not, one will earn a shit storm

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016

Achamptor wrote to me: "Look what your saying or else something will happen". Somebody deleted his comment.
But it shows what kind of person he is. I am staying with my opinion and could it formulate still sharper.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/77seestern77" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1406612">77seestern77</a>
Iscritto dal: 23.12.2018

I have seen Aaron´s comment! Your quote is right! To Aaron, you don´t have to discuss in this way! Not for teen seconds! Please!!!

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.07.2018

To decide not to translate a text because it hurts your feelings is one thing, to try to prevent others to publish, translate or read it is something else. I am decidedly against censure, except in very blatant cases.

And to NatureProvence : True, "Main Kampf" was forbidden in Germany (as it was in France), but I have heard that an editor was recently allowed to republish it (with tons of notes and warnings, of course). I myself have never read it, nor even seen it. I was only told that it was bad, and it should not be read. This is exactly how the Church behaved in the Middle Age : they hold a list of books they decided to forbid, and no one was allowed to read them. I guess I am old enough to have my own opinion about it by reading it (if I get the chance), I don't need others to tell me what I should read or not. Are we little children, or idiots ?

Anf by the way, IMHO, the more you forbid someting, the more you advertise for it, and the more you make people curious to see by themselves what it is all about.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.07.2018

OK, let's forbid all rap texts, and Russian nationalist songs, and those from other countries too. For example La Marseillaise :
"Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons" (May unclean blood water our furrows)
So finally we shall end with only Snow White and King Lion's songs, that will hurt nobody's feelings.

Senior Member
<a href="/it/translator/oophster" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1389037">Iceloot</a>
Iscritto dal: 10.07.2018
Jadis wrote:

OK, let's forbid all rap texts, and Russian nationalist songs, and those from other countries too. For example La Marseillaise :
"Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons" (May unclean blood water our furrows)
So finally we shall end with only Snow White and King Lion's songs, that will hurt nobody's feelings.

"Bring me her lungs
Bring me her liver"

A song by a band called Snow White Blood, btw

Not so innocent may be failrytale songs. However, european fairytales themselves back in the day were not what they are like now. =)

Senior Member
<a href="/it/translator/oophster" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1389037">Iceloot</a>
Iscritto dal: 10.07.2018

Being honest, there are things that never should be translated, for translating them is the way the ideas spread that mustn't spread.

Member
<a href="/it/translator/almitra" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1432222">Almitra</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.09.2019

Do you want to build a straw-man? Sorry, the fruit was hanging too low. But honestly, whose position are you opposing?

I'm sure you know that there's a big difference between a song primarily intended to convey the very idea it has been criticized or banned for, which is exactly why such songs are quickly picked up and utilized by the groups that are their intended audience, and a song with a few unfortunate lines that sound iffy to a present-day ear. So it's the difference between intention and the lack thereof. Lawmakers know this as well, which is why we've still got enough music to last us and our great-great-great... grandchildren a lifetime, without ever having to dig up hate-filled media of the past.

And I'm sure you also know that a catchy tune may serve as a better incentive to hate-motivated actions than 500 pages of convoluted ramblings of a lunatic. It's the power of artistic media. So please, don't try to make it look like we're arguing against Christmas carols.

Finally, historians can easily access any book or song they need for their research. As for public access. Good people look for a chance to avoid a fight, while bad ones jump on any excuse to pick one. It's some people's dedication to reviving such content that makes me question their purely historical and democratic motives. To me, the amount of effort and time dedicated to looking for an excuse speaks louder than words.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/vera-jahnke" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1416993">Vera Jahnke</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.03.2019

Many laws in a civilized country are containing prohibitions. Why?

Even inside of us there is a psychological "censor", who told us what to do and what not.
Why do we not fart in public? – Yes, because our inner "censor" said: "No, it is prohibited!"
By the way, as far as I am concerned, I am happy about that...

So what has happened in "history"? After millions and millions of years, the Neanderthal-man inside of us is very unhappy not to kill and hate and eat other people. As long we have our profit, we can accept the culture. But as soon as the economy, social community and others things go down, we don't want to endure the pressure of culture any longer.

Then we open our tiny, tiny assholes (due to our personal sado-maso-anal-phase-satisfaction) and let it out – our brown shit. And we call it "freedom", the final freedom!

What freedom? The freedom to hate? The freedom to kill?

Of course – books don't kill, songs don't kill... And weapons? – Yes, weapons also don't kill by themselves. So give all the machine-guns to the Neanderthal-men and let's see what will happen... (And if not, okay, then they will use stones to kill each other...)

First, there are the ideas (for example the idea of the 5 root-races and the "high developed Arians"), then there are words, and books, and songs, and political parties. Then they begin to act, normally after a personal declaration of bankruptcy, they create their "new system". And that leads to our final destiny in the end!

On the other hand, which songs and which books should we ban?

What about horror-stories? Some people really believe in monsters and demons and then kill their neighbors. But they are few, so we need no prohibition.

The misuse of the bible, my next example, has brought a lot of suffering to the world: Witch-trials, inquisition, crusades and so on. And so much people believe every single word of it and try to urge other people to believe it, too... So what? To ban it or not?

Finally, this question can only be answered by the degree of danger for a given culture!

In my opinion, Nazism is one of these great threats! So ban it! Now!

As far as I know, there is no law in Germany against cannibalism. Why? - Because no normal person wants to do this! We need no law, no prohibition any longer. A first victory of evolution!

As far as I am concerned, there are two directions: backwards and forward. Our evolution goes forward, and so should we go...

Thank you for reading!

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016

Jadis, this is not the whole truth. Yes, the book was reedited, but not in the original form and content, but with annotations and comments made by experts.
But the HW-Lied remains legally forbidden as others NS-symbols.

Senior Member
<a href="/it/translator/oophster" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1389037">Iceloot</a>
Iscritto dal: 10.07.2018

Surely, law & prohibitions outside of us and culture inside is what make us people. Here, in the internet dimension, prohibitions and restrictions are not so strong cuz it is not so "real" here as in reality, but it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want down here. We are no longer children restricted by law, we should implement self-control by our own free will according to our inner culture not going too far of how we'd behave in real life, though of course internet gives more freedom in a good way.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016
Jadis wrote:

OK, let's forbid all rap texts, and Russian nationalist songs, and those from other countries too. For example La Marseillaise :
"Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons" (May unclean blood water our furrows)
So finally we shall end with only Snow White and King Lion's songs, that will hurt nobody's feelings.

You' re right. Therefore such songs resp. Lyrics are normally banned in public medias like TV or radio.
Do you remember "Je t'aime moi non plus"?
And the time may come where the Marseillaise is banned too, as it was done with stanzas 1+2 of the German anthem.

Moderator of most things Romanic
<a href="/it/translator/knee427" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Iscritto dal: 05.04.2012

As an user: That's why I do not translate some songs (like those that objectify women - if I do translate one of these, you'll certainly see a disclaimer via 'Submitter's comment' saying that it's not my kind of song or that the translation was not something I liked to do, but did anyway). I agree with both Michael and Jadis.

Also, people can, but should not be judged by the songs they translate. Specially because it's not very clever to do so - as it can lead to dubious judgment. In my humble opinion, calling someone a Nazi sympathizer only because they translated their anthem doesn't make much sense. We don't know the translator in person to make this judgment of them. For instance, if I translate a song of a singer I know is homophobic, does that make of me an homophobic? Not wanting to relativize issues, but that's how I see it. Knowing Aaron, I'm pretty sure he only wanted to help and found no harm in translating the song, specially because he deleted his work after heavy [and kind of rude, I must say] criticism by users.

I, not speaking as either Mod or average user, think we really should allow this content (of course, unless it's legally prohibited), for its historical content and value. For now, we Mods and Site Admins are discussing if this content should really be allowed [and we have already a list of content that's being evaluated]. It's nice to see the opinion of German speakers and natives here, though.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Iscritto dal: 01.07.2018

OK you won, I didn't know the exact content of the song, but you made me curious, so I looked for it and I found it.

And then I read it, and surely will be hanged for that !

And actually, it didn't look much worse to me than some Russian pro-Stalin songs for example. It contains the words "Hakenkreuz" (swastika) und "Hitlerfahnen" (Hitler flags). I supposed these are forbidden words. The rest of it it exactly similar to any patriotic song, and especially the Russian ones. It doesn't even contain the word "Jude" (Jew) for example. So much ado about nothing !

And then I noticed that the words are on French Wikipedia (with a partial and very poor French translation, but with some interesting comments). And even with a French parody, made by Pierre Dac (also forbidden, I guess ?)

And there are articles about it on German Wikipedia too (much more complete), and on the English one, and in about 40 other languages.

I really wish we would get rid of that odious tendency to forbid anything not politically-correct (this song being only a anecdotic example) and to send to jail any people trying to get plain information and to think by themselves. When shall we start burning sorcerers again ? Who is entitled to dictate to me what I have the right to read ?

Senior Member
<a href="/it/translator/oophster" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1389037">Iceloot</a>
Iscritto dal: 10.07.2018

Any problems with Stalin? Show me a document by any kind of tribunal claiming him someone who committed crimes against humanity.

You havent any? Surely you havent. Matching Stalin to Hitler, matching soviet communism to nazi ideology is a crime you commit against the memory of millions died for Europe's freedom back in 43-45. They were our ancestors. Heroes, who fought till death. Respect them.

Editor - Sculptor of Language
<a href="/it/translator/hansi-klauer" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1249237">Hansi K_Lauer</a>
Iscritto dal: 11.06.2015

I am surprised that from time to time we seem to have to do the same old discussion all over again.
We have seen it all before, isn't it?

It's as simple as that: We have website rules that indicate what will not be tolerated here, including songs and their content. Everyone can and should read the rules. The passage in question here is right in their top section.

In regard of Nazi songs, there is an additional rule in a section that may only be visible to editors and moderators. It says that songs that glorify the Nazis and are prohibited by law in Germany are also banned on our website.

When we took the initiative in 2017 to seek regulation in this area, it first of all was about aggressive and homophobe German neo-Nazi propaganda songs that were posted here. They are currently playing a major role in propaganda and fund raising for the ever-growing neo-Nazi scene in Germany.
We did not ask to ban historic Nazi songs from before 1945.
They no longer play a role in the neo-Nazi scene today because they no longer appeal to today's youth. For that reason no great danger or effect emanates from them.
They are still prohibited by law in Germany. These prohibitions date from the immediate post-war period. That they will not be lifted has political reasons. No political party in Germany wants to get their hands dirty on this topic.

On LT, however, we are not subject to German law, as far as I know.
Therefore, we should and can make our own rules, according to our own opinion and then simply stick to it.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Iscritto dal: 19.07.2018

Hansi, the problem here is simple - everyone is right. But, I recently read that in Sofia, Bulgaria there is a rise in antisemitism even though Jews are a tiny part of population - several thousands only. But government ignores the swasticas painted and the associated hatred - I didn't save the link, but I appreciated the conclusion that it starts with Jews, but doesn't end there. So, I'm again saying that I support the freedom of the speech, but if one chooses to publish and translate any bigotry, they must comment explaining the thought behind that choice, and should they be in support of such hatred, it should be banned.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016

Contradictorious! You are writing:
In regard of Nazi songs, there is an additional rule in a section that may only be visible to editors and moderators. It says that songs that glorify the Nazis and are prohibited by law in Germany are also banned on our website.

And in the end you allow this illegal song because no political party in "Germany wants to get their hands dirty on this topic."

As far as I am informed there we're no interdictions in Germany of politically driven Songs in Germany.

Moderator
<a href="/it/translator/aldefina" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1152070">Aldefina</a>
Iscritto dal: 16.01.2013
Hansi K_Lauer wrote:

When we took the initiative in 2017 to seek regulation in this area, it first of all was about aggressive and homophobe German neo-Nazi propaganda songs that were posted here. They are currently playing a major role in propaganda and fund raising for the ever-growing neo-Nazi scene in Germany.
We did not ask to ban historic Nazi songs from before 1945.
They no longer play a role in the neo-Nazi scene today because they no longer appeal to today's youth. For that reason no great danger or effect emanates from them.
They are still prohibited by law in Germany. These prohibitions date from the immediate post-war period. That they will not be lifted has political reasons. No political party in Germany wants to get their hands dirty on this topic.

On LT, however, we are not subject to German law, as far as I know.
Therefore, we should and can make our own rules, according to our own opinion and then simply stick to it.

Thanks, Hans for explaining. One should differentiate between neo-Nazi songs and that which have a historical value. We shouldn't be another Spanish Inquisition.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Iscritto dal: 13.04.2017
BlackSea4ever wrote:

Hansi, the problem here is simple - everyone is right.

That's the initial 'simple' problem.
When there's no one left - that will be the final 'simple' problem.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/blacksea4ever" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1390089">BlackSea4ever</a>
Iscritto dal: 19.07.2018

I was simply saying that Jadis is right on censorship, and we are right that we don't wish hatred propagated.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/natur-provence" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1289099">Natur Provence</a>
Iscritto dal: 24.04.2016
Aldefina wrote:

Thanks, Hans for explaining. One should differentiate between neo-Nazi songs and that which have a historical value. We shouldn't be another Spanish Inquisition.

This was no explanation, it was contradictory in itself. And you differentiation ist artifial. In how many years will "neo-nazi-songs" have a historical "value". If we do not build barriers it will be a rather short time...

I think the opinions are clear now and I will not longer participate in this discussion- and please take notice that I don't like neither censorship by third persons. But for some persons this is a necessity.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/vera-jahnke" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1416993">Vera Jahnke</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.03.2019

I agree with BlackSea4ever: We need freedom for to live, like the air that we breathe - but we need also regulation from inside and outside not to kill or reduce ourselves to animals. We are smoking and drinking, we are spending more money than we have, we are aggressive, we are destroying the planet, although we are all knowing the facts, although we are all so informed. We want to satisfy our "lust"-center" and it is okay, it is our freedom, but only up to a certain level. When we start to destroy ourselves, then we need this regulation. Hitler's hate has ruined my country completely within only 12 years, now this country is economically strong, but it is still suffering from the wounds caused by this period. If you are living in France or England or elsewhere, you do not know, how it is, to feel this horror and shame: Our grandparents were either dying in a KZ as victims or were the culprits, both cases have a big impact even 2 generations later. I for my part definitely don't want it back! If we therefore need a ban, I have really no problem with that.

Aaron for example was banned very often: They say, his behavior was aggressive. – Although I know him as a very friendly, warmhearted and helpful person, although I have seen some of the comments in question, there was nothing, nothing in his behavior, which is so aggressive and evil as the Nazi-ideology, which is only banned after a long and always recurring discussion. I am German and I know what I am talking about: In every street here you can see the messing-plates for the victims of Nazi-terror! I am standing for a culture with as much freedom as possible, but not, if it costs our lives.

And the songs in question are no "historical" information, they were not written for this purpose, they are propaganda, nothing else! - So stop it!

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/vera-jahnke" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1416993">Vera Jahnke</a>
Iscritto dal: 30.03.2019
Natur Provence wrote:

I think the opinions are clear now and I will not longer participate in this discussion- and please take notice that I don't like neither censorship by third persons. But for some persons this is a necessity.

Exactly, as for me, there is nothing more to add!

Editor - Sculptor of Language
<a href="/it/translator/hansi-klauer" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1249237">Hansi K_Lauer</a>
Iscritto dal: 11.06.2015
BlackSea4Ever wrote:

... I'm again saying that I support the freedom of the speech, but if one chooses to publish and translate any bigotry, they must comment explaining the thought behind that choice, and should they be in support of such hatred, it should be banned.

Dear Deanna, we can't investigate on any user's idelology or mindset.
If potentially questionable lyrics are posted, they should be checked whether they violate our rules or not.
Moderators are in charge. If the lyrics have to be tolerated, don't blame a translator.
Nobody has to give a reason why he/she translates a specific song.

NaturProvence #42 wrote:

Contradictorious! ...
As far as I am informed there we're no interdictions in Germany of politically driven Songs in Germany.

I'm sorry dear NP, but I don't understand your statement.
What contradiction do you see?
and: on behalf of the "Horst-Wessel-Lied":
"Das Lied wurde 1945 nach der Niederlage Deutschlands im Zweiten Weltkrieg durch den Alliierten Kontrollrat verboten. Dieses Verbot ist aufgrund § 86a StGB in Deutschland bis heute in Kraft." (Wikipedia)
[= Since the end of World War II, "Horst-Wessel-Lied" has been banned in Germany and Austria.]

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/77seestern77" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1406612">77seestern77</a>
Iscritto dal: 23.12.2018

"Nobody has to give a reason why he/she translates a specific song."

But everybody has the right to ask about why. You can say you don't want explain your reasons or say nothing, but i think i have a right to ask. And you should allow me to tell my opinion about a lyric and the translation which belong to.

I did not degrade aarons translation or his reasons in the comments there belong to the translation. I ask for the reasons and tell my opinion about effects which would be posible. I'm angry about the fact it to deleted and to begin a new topic on antother place without all informations. Ok, he dont tell names, but i know there was only two persons. One of them i am... .

Lgseestern🌈🦄

Criatura amorfa
<a href="/it/translator/f%C3%ABnai-osun" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1402360">Especie no identificada</a>
Iscritto dal: 14.11.2018

I haven't read the whole convo, but I have something to say:

If you need to forbid and/or hide art pieces in order to prevent people from doing horrible things, something is going wrong with your society. My country is a little guilt of that too.
Although some people do use fiction to express their own opinions and beliefs, it's still what it is, a fiction. If someone wants to take it further...

And one thing about internet shitstorm: let it be. If people get angry at what you do, you can ignore them as long as nobody actually tries to delete your contents.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80-%D0%BC%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365992">Alexander Frei</a>
Iscritto dal: 23.12.2017
Moderator of most things Romanic
<a href="/it/translator/knee427" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Iscritto dal: 05.04.2012

As I said - Mods and Admins are discussing the issue [and we already have a list of flagged content to evaluate]. Let's keep at least a polite tone, even when we disagree, to prevent users from taking drastic actions like those that happened in the past.

Super Member
<a href="/it/translator/iam-real-lord-hell" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1333527">TeSTaMeNT</a>
Iscritto dal: 31.03.2017

Hello guys! The Hirohito poem is mine. As I said it contains so many refers and ironies, too sorry if I hurt someone, but I wrote what I thought. I'M NOT NAZI and not FASCIST. This is such an horrible attitude. I love Lenin, I dislike Stalin, I hate Hitler, I like some things about Mussolini. There are not only black and white, I'm afraid, there are greys. History is grey for example. I don't understand why a Chinese person get hurt by my poem. For example, Hungarian anthem contains a sentence 'Vad török sáncára,', In english 'On the wild Turk's earthworks', So it must be deleted too because it can hurt a Turkish person like me.

Regards, Greetings from Antalya, TeSTaMeNT

Some songs that can hurt a Turkish person:
-https://lyricstranslate.com/tr/axpers-u-es-kardeşim-ve-ben.html
-https://lyricstranslate.com/tr/magyar-nemzeti-himnusz-hungar-milli-marşı...
-https://lyricstranslate.com/tr/şivan-perwer-ey-reqîb-lyrics.html
-https://lyricstranslate.com/tr/hep-kürt-kalacağız-her-kurd-ebîn.html

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