Reworking Tags System

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Master
<a href="/it/translator/sandring" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1263066">sandring </a>
Iscritto dal: 18.10.2015

Hi, Schnurrbrat

Thank you for taking this topic up again. I have an alternative suggestion.

All these tags are pretty confusing for new translators. They start asking unnecessary questions and quite often get frustrated. Now LT tagging speaks of a poetic site rather than of a translation one. And all these squabbles over metered/not metered, E/not E, which is ridiculous. And, of course, E,P,R,M,S /C,E,P,R,M,S whatever that may mean. So a common reader might deem that translating for LT requires some poetic qualifications rather than translation skills. And that might warn visitors against joining the LT community.

Why don't we implement a much simpler and more understandable scheme? (-) No tag for a normal translation. (P) for a poetic translation i.e. a translation made into a poem whichever form it may take. (S) for a singable translation.

Besides, such an approach would make it possible to add one more tag. Call it Fantasy/Adaptation or any other. This tag may come in handy when a translator writes their own poetic work inspired by the original lyrics including a parody. Right now editors and mods try to talk the submitter into removing such works into their own page because they can't technically be called translations. A new tag will save us a lot of worries.

Anyway, a simpler tagging scheme will look more appealing to newcomers and unregistered readers, I guess. After all, LT is a translation-friendly community, now it looks like a troublesome poetic workshop. :)

Esperto
<a href="/it/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1387945">Jadis </a>
Iscritto dal: 01.07.2018

I always thought that some combinations should be forbidden by the software. For ex, E + S doesn't make sense, IMHO ("singable" being just a cheaper version of "equirhythmic"). On the other hand, if a translation is rhythmed and rhymed, it is almost necessarily "poetic", because it is impossible to give a rhythmed and rhymed equivalent of the source text and to stick to the words at the same time.

But the notions of : rhymed, rhythmed, commented, close or not to the original text make sense to me. Of course you cannot force the translators to use them properly, especially if the software allows nonsense.

Revisore
<a href="/it/translator/anerneq" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1112972">Anerneq <div class="editor_icon" title="Redaktor" ></div></a>
Iscritto dal: 10.05.2012

I struggle to understand the reason behind all this.
What you're saying is that the tagging system is not working efficiently and you're suggesting an improvement. Your idea is to let other people vote on the classification for a translation, but I don't see how this would benefit the translators, the users, the guests or the website as a whole. You said not many actually use tags, so why would these people immediately decide to judge which tag would be appropriate for a specific translation? If they don't use tags is because 1) they don't understand them or 2) they don't think they are useful. If the majority is not interested in tags, why would they be interested in categorising other people's translations? Tag voting would end up being put in place by a minority with no direct consequences (neither negative nor positive) to anyone. It doesn't improve LT in any way and I don't understand what the purpose would be.

Your second suggestion goes beyond the scope of LT. This is not a social media platform. If you want to thank a user because they help you, a simple "thank you" as a reply is enough. If a comment is toxic, Mods will take care of it. If it's off-topic, just ignore it (although some people here do use the comment section as a chatroom for some reason). Besides many people already use the "Like" button with all these meanings. I think the way things are now is ok.

I think Sandring's suggestion is reasonable. Having the most essential tags would solve all the problems the current tag system causes, while pleasing at the same time those who use and want a tag system. I wouldn't suggest having the "adaptation/fantasy/howeveryouwanttocallit" tag, though. That would allow people to just post whatever and I don't see how this would help anyone. Even with the current system I see some people writing their own version of the lyrics and calling them a "translation", such tag would only promote and amplify the phenomenon to an annoying extent. I think we should rather keep the "commented" tag, which is probably the only one that is actually useful.

Revisore in pensione
<a href="/it/translator/ogingero" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1352420">OgingerO </a>
Iscritto dal: 08.09.2017

disagree with the comment tag - completely. You could put it like/dislike... but anything else - eh. People are not very nice. No need to further encourage or create a toxic environment like Twitter. I do agree with your first suggestions, but don't think anything more than up and down votes are wholly necessary. I think just simplifying the tags and making them more useable would be better all around. I had to point out to more than one person, yes they could look for singable translations and add their own. It just wasn't that obvious.

Revisore Soldier of Love
<a href="/it/translator/flopsi" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1331196">Flopsi <div class="editor_icon" title="Editor" ></div></a>
Iscritto dal: 12.03.2017

I observed this discussion and was really surprised how almost everybody turned your suggestion down. Personally I don't use those tags. I don't know what they are supposed to be for. Okay, I don't do any rhyming or singable translations. I don't care and know nothing about equirhythmic or metered translations. I sometimes label my translations poetic because they have some extra words to emphasise the meaning but rarely do so. And yes, I have commented translations, but why should I tag the translation if it's plain to see that this translation is commented?

Ospite
Ospite

Hey, just wanted to chime in and say that I personally think that there should be an Adaptation tag. In my humble opinion, the "singing" tag isn't always enough simply because there are times where you can do a more direct translation and still make it singable. I have done adaptations of songs into my languages and I would like to be able to just use the Adaptation tag without always having to add the word "Adaptation" in brackets beside the title.

Don't know if it is a silly idea or not and perhaps I am in the minority.

Ospite
Ospite
Ospite
Ospite

Ok thanks.

Esperto
<a href="/it/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1387945">Jadis </a>
Iscritto dal: 01.07.2018

I think that usually, tags are made to be used, that is, to be able to find a list of texts with such or such tag (and then it's easier to check whether the tags seem justified or not, and even perhaps to argue with the translator who didn't use the right tag) ). But if there is no such opportunity yet (as I think I understood), the interest is less evident. Nevertheless I use them, and I hope that I use them right (sometimes, after thinking, I change some).

I usually prefer translation with rhythm and rhymes, even if they are a little far away from the original (insofar the spirit is preserved), but I understand that some prefer to stick to the words, and in some cases it's not even useful to try to match rhythm and rhymes. Some comments are very useful too, I think, even if sometimes they seem to aim at filling a book out of a simple song...

Banned User
<a href="/it/translator/waran4ik" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1474555">Waran4ik </a>
Iscritto dal: 22.10.2020

I have already suggested a simple solution earlier. Anyone who puts the tag E or S must confirm this either by notes or by singing. Without this, these tags are profanation. LT should add an appropriate field to the translations so that everyone can insert either notes, or video, or audio. Plus, LT should add the ability to evaluate with a mandatory comment whether the text is actually sung in accordance with the music and has some deviations, or whether it is a recitative to the music that has nothing to do with either E or S. Yes, for some it will be difficult to meet the criteria for setting these tags. But the bar is also raised high. Therefore, the quality must be confirmed. However, these initiatives were never supported at the LT, everything remained as before. People continue to put these tags as they please. These tags do not guarantee that the translation is being sung. These tags are only misleading. Most of them at least.

Guru
<a href="/it/translator/vevvev" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1405697">vevvev </a>
Iscritto dal: 14.12.2018

This site was not created for professional translations. Anyone who wants professional accuracy, correctness, harmony can go to the resources of professional translations. Here people just relax and have fun. Leave, please, these endless attempts to introduce censorship here.

Banned User Ironic Iron ֍ The Black Sun
<a href="/it/translator/st-sol" class="userpopupinfo" rel="user1315904">St. Sol </a>
Iscritto dal: 20.11.2016

The original 2-level tag system was developed to classify translations by certain formal attributes and to help users finding S, R, M, and E translations. Due to implementation issues, the site developers reduced the system to a single level, distorted the tag meanings, and shortened tag names (tag P was supposed to mean a "poetic license" was used in a translation, but it was reduced to simply "poetic" resulting in the ongoing confusion among users). The system became confusing but it still remained useful if users only took their time to understand the tag meanings and use them properly. Currently that is not the case. Later, some editors (и недавно присоединившиеся к ним хамы) started arguing that E concept is nonexistent, and S tag is the only one needed. The only plausible explanation for such a denial of the obvious is that these particular characters are unable to produce E translations and want to reduce everybody to their level. If their position wins, then users won't be able to differentiate between singability quality of translations and the whole classication system will be useless. And the last but not the least point: poetic adaptations, fantasies on the topic, and other contributions grossly distorting/misinterpreting the meaning of the source are not translations, and they should not be allowed on the site dedicated to translations, imho.