A Great Man
Прекрасный человек
ありがとう! ❤ | ||
thanked 11 times |
Thanks Details:
ユーザー | 経過 |
---|---|
Sophia_ | 4年 3ヶ月 |
Sr. Sermás | 4年 3ヶ月 |
ゲスト | 4年 4ヶ月 |
barsiscev | 4年 4ヶ月 |
sandring | 4年 4ヶ月 |
Шахноза Мухамедова | 4年 4ヶ月 |
vevvev | 4年 4ヶ月 |
Almitra | 4年 4ヶ月 |
dandelion | 4年 4ヶ月 |
Ww Ww | 4年 4ヶ月 |
Michael Zeiger | 4年 4ヶ月 |
It means that he/she will be happy to receive corrections, suggestions etc about the translation.
If you are proficient in both languages of the language pair, you are welcome to leave your comments.
1. | Misericordia quid |
2. | Mariupol In War |
3. | 1984 |
1. | под стать |
Мне понравился перевод. По крайне мере, диссонанса при чтении оригинала и вашего перевода не возникло, как в первый раз, а о конкретных переводческих решениях можно, наверно, спорить до бесконечности. Есть в оригинале пара мест, которые мне не совсем понятны, но это опять потребует пространных споров о смыслах, а ваш перевод этих мест, учитывая их неоднозначность, наверное, имеет право быть.
А по поводу другого вопроса. Меня это задело не столько из-за меня любимого, сколько потому, что я считаю такие дискуссии важной частью процесса перевода и развития. Прелесть интернета в том, что любому человеку, особенно совсем начинающему, стала доступна кухня всех сфер деятельности. Я понимаю, что в том споре были, наверное, и личные разборки (куда ж без них в людских-то делах), но обсуждались и нужные вещи. Вон Елена аж целого Потебню цитировала, о существовании которого не каждый и знает. А главное, что без той дискуссии не понять, зачем вы-то корпели над более скромной версией поэтически состоятельной первой версии. Ну да ладно, не будем начинать новые дебаты. Я работаю над еще одним вашим стихом, так что там, если вам что-то не понравится, и продолжим беседы о прекрасном :)
PZ, а почему на другом переводе нельзя комментировать? Вы с wwwww повздорили?
St. Sol schrieb:Unless you forgot: upsetting LT gods in any way (by telling the truth or discussing them for example) will lead to erasing the comment board or else.
Ст, ваша работа?
What did you say this time?
🤣🙄😅😍
Why do you think it is Sol's fault?
here is the translation which was criticized [for the faults in understanding of the original] by two other translators, including a native Mongolian.
Now all comments are deleted, at it will forever remain as #1 {thx to Nadya's vote if I'm not mistaken} - a thanks-generating factory.
It's not Sol's fault - M is being sarcastic. I think comments are there but invisible. I'd rather valuable comments were visible - asked for such feature, but it's not yet available. Al made many good points and other responses were good too - it's especially bad for people like me with memory issues.
preaching to the choir
Welcome to a circus
42, я готова была предположить, что WwWw посчитал неуместной нашу бурную дискуссию под стихом, посвящённым ушедшему другу, и тут его понять, наверное, можно было, хотя в любом случае удалять все комментарии без предупреждения - это совсем не комильфо. Но Ваша отсылка к другому переводу с подобной историей наводит на определённые мысли, так же, как и количество лайков к нему, не соответствующее реальному списку. Не стоило бы модератору таким образом дискредитировать сайт.
Sol, lol, yet there was, albeit small, room for improvement
[@LT], why all comments here were deleted and blocked?
Маша, а помните историю с Чёрным тюльпаном
Кое-кто с упорством, достойным лучшего применения доказывал, что Черный тюльпан это якобы не самолет АН-2, вывозивший "Груз-200",
и все комментарии были удалены (именно deleted, а не unpublished) [@Alexander Laskavtsev] может подтвердить.
Sophia_ schrieb:Маша, а помните историю с Чёрным тюльпаном
Кое-кто с упорством, достойным лучшего применения доказывал, что Черный тюльпан это якобы не самолет АН-2, вывозивший "Груз-200",
и все комментарии были удалены (именно deleted, а не unpublished) [@Alexander Laskavtsev] может подтвердить.
- На маленьком Ан-2
https://warshistory.ru/wp-content/uploads/kukuruznik-samolet-foto_30.jpg
никто, конечно, "груз 200" (убитых) из Афганистана не возил, этим занималась большая транспортная авиация - четырёхмоторные Ан-12
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Antonov_An-12BK%2C_R...
и Ил-76
https://vpk.name/file/img/voennotransportnyii_samolet_il76_vvs_indii-dvn...
- это их прозвали "чёрными тюльпанами"...
Запаянные гробы под видом "груза 200" часто использовались ответственными за транспортировку офицерами для контрабанды наркотиков и прочих коммерческих ценностей...
Процесс этот происходил непрерывно в течение более восьми лет, пока шла война в Афганистане, Розенбаум там бывал многократно с концертами, всю эту "кухню" он прекрасно знал, как закалённого бывшего профессионального врача его вряд ли что-то могло шокировать в транспортировке "груза 200" и "груза 300" (раненые) - война есть война...
Sophia_ schrieb:Миша, спасибо за информацию. Я ошиблась в модели самолета, но я имела в виду, что это именно самолет, тогда как автор перевода доказывал, что это нечто иное, символ расставания, что ли.
- Нет-нет, это именно что самолёт, его "кличка".
Там в статейке про Розенбаума скорее всего просто опечатка, "палочку" пропустили: вместо Ан-12 напечатали Ан-2. Описка, всего навсего...
А как он подтвердил?
Пользователь не на сайте
последний раз был 17.06.2019
Соня, а почему LT должно находить ресурсы, чтобы содержать эту notorious флудилку? После каждого перевода флуд на 6 листов. Скажу вам по секрету, это всех уже достало. Не только русскоговорящих. Это достало всех пользователей. Слава богу, без мата сейчас. И главное, совершенно беспредметно. Правильно этот трёп удаляют.
Что касается Черного тюльпана, то вы все даже суть не уловили среди собственных криков. Песня-то про самолет, но речь шла - откуда само название Черный тюльпан. Самолет назвали так позже, когда он груз 200 стал перевозить, а изначально это черный мешок с мертвым телом погибшего. Он и выглядит как черный бутон.
Я работала переводчиком на "митинге" Врачей без границ - ветеранов Афгана. Там американские врачи говорили "I got 5 black tulips that day". А они не на аэродроме работали.
Черный тюльпан в России - символ погибшего в Афгане солдата. Есть много памятников Черный тюльпан в России.
Я дико извиняюсь, но там в комментариях коллегами было высказано много интересных и полезных вещей, касавшихся основ перевода - что допустимо, что нет, что хорошо, что плохо и т.д. Мы ходим на LT и для общения, обмена мыслями, чтобы чему-то научиться, послушать более компетентных (чем мы) людей и т.п. И Вы, Надя, один из активных участников этого общения.
Если администрацию что-то не устраивает - пусть меняет опубликованные правила, и мы все просто переползем на другой сайт.
It is extremely bad form to carry on so, when one knows better. If rules have to state that one acts civilly or without empathy for others then perhaps it would be better to saunter off elsewhere. A place where reality doesn't find one's failings and will not see through guises. Lives hidden away behind glowing screens. Keep in mind there are many things going on elsewhere that could greatly improve dispositions in general. Some easy to find. Right outside the door. The constant whining because the world isn't the way an individual wants to be is as one attempted to finger point recently said "childish". This same individual has over, and over, and over, and over said that he would go elsewhere because he is so unhappy - yet here he remains. That attitude has taken root in those easily disenfranchised with the group and its members beyond. It has become very apparent to all here. Inevitably it will come to a bad end. All societies have rules written or not they must be observed. Realize that in reality if one went out in the streets and repeated some of what I have read here they would find the harshness of the results forthcoming. So no one can, or has the right to say anything without due regard for others, nor to address them in a way that they would not want to hear (the golden rule). Some of those in this very commentary have come running for that same justice (quietly though).
As for insulting veterans (especially without any real knowledge of the world outside of a faulted article on the web). There is obviously no honour. Even Rosenbaum will tell you he doesn't know all the facts involved. If you read/heard his other articles/interviews he has said so. If there were true motivations that were truly of honourable intention they would be addressed in confidence with a listening, learning ear (just like I have imparted to most of you), but they are not. Because it's more important to be seen, to be hear, to be noticed, to be important. But the line between importance and resentment lies blurred. As for Afghanistan the rule is - if one hasn't walked the walk, they don't talk the talk. To do so in reality would render catastrophic results from veterans. I will tell you, I was very sad to find that no one had previously took up the legacy of that time to translate the songs of the war. Perhaps because they did not have those experiences to do so. They are contributions by a vet for other vets, simply as that. We look out for each other... always. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here?
As for thanks, likes of my poetry... they are supported by consequent numerous views. The content of my poetry whether it is to one's liking or not is true to life, true to purpose, and purveys the realities that are a part of realistic living in many different forms. If one doesn't receive the amount of thanks they feel they need then I would suggest perhaps reformatting entries, shutting down the computer and living life for real, with all of its joys, sorrows, lumps and bumps. Then learn, and bring back something positive, even out of the negative (another life lesson). It might be even possible that there are those who will never get it. Remember a reader has to be able to be empathetic. The true Achilles heal is being unable to seek assistance to find insight. There seems to be a plethora of those know all, see all, say all here. Humility and introspective into their own work might be to their merit. Wisdom lies in those of good intention.
Understand that there are those involved who have requested and received commentary removal in the past. So what is good for others is then good for all. Also I observed amongst the flock involved here in real time the drifting to other postings by other users strictly for the of inception of negative remarks knowing that they were uninvited and that there was 'bad blood' from the get-go. So then, what is to be done with such intentions? Are they for the betterment here and the cohesiveness of ALL users? No... not at all. What we have here is a clique, a destructive one, with a groupthink that causes more mischief that should ever exist. The problem is that their accounts remain unscathed. Does that mean they are perfect? No, by no means so. Should it be so, there would be innumerable comments relating to indiscretions. The truth is in fact that those who have a real purpose in life don't have time for such sophomoric antics. Obviously that is not a universal concept. So in response perhaps it might be best for those who cannot contribute in a positive, cordial, and teamworking manner it might be best to shove off and find a place more suitable to one's unrelated needs. I reserve the right to put aside or unpublish comments not conducive to the morale and security of users here. What is good for LT outweighs what is good to a user with an attitude.
As for you personally, I see a light in you that needs tending to. You need to walk the path to enlightenment, not into despair. I send PM's to those who will look over their possibilities without public exposure to think over without interruptions or buffoonery. No thanks, no likes, no trends, no fuss, and no muss. There is no egotistic need for me to be recognized or to feel important. I do not have to accuse others of ineptitude to make myself feel better. A good word, a bit of advice, good fellowship, costs nothing. Good men know good men... and they shun the bad. If you doubt that then look into another's eyes, shake their hand and you'll know the truth. You will find you own way. That way lies in reality first. The cyber world is a false world. Often full of those who are afraid of life, who are unhappy with themselves, and by that there will never be a happy ending.
As for making staff out to be ogres. Chronic whining does not represent nor is it conducive to a positive resolution or good morale. In a nutshell comes down to personal accountability and realization of strengths and weaknesses. There are a few that have never assessed that, nor know how. Everyone has a job to do. That means changes... not always to others likings. Some look into themselves and look into the other person's and acknowledge the reasons for decisions. Others motivated by negative impulses think everyone acts/thinks the same way. Fortunately the world does not. It's an organization here, an organism as it were. It cannot survive if it fights itself. Cliques or negativity are cancerous. They chase off contributors that might create great things. The amount of time spent on destructive comments could easily be afforded to positive endeavours. So then would it not be better to retain the good and cull the bad, to mentor the growing and weed out the dead, or does the proverbal coaster run headlong into a wall?
Finally, there is a direct correlation between those most unhappy and those who do not ever communicate any issues they feel they need to bring to light. Only the safety and security and recognition of public commentary. Kind of sad that one can't deal with others in a professional, adultlike manner isn't it? There might be a whole lot less whining here if they would 'face the music'. Then there would be no need for this negativity, and fluent trolling behavior, and no need to be a victim of the world and those percieved as threatening. Someone dealing with others on 'the up and up' never has that concern. "A Great Man" in the poem, a humble man of meager means seems to be forgotten amidst this clutter was a direct contrast to what appears beneath him. He is immortalized and will endure long beyond this commentary. Long beyond what is currently believed important. His humility is retained in the living. Maybe it's time to reassess your goals, your endeavors, and use the time you have here (mortally) more wisely. It doesn't matter what you do in life, what your education is, what you think you are. The ONLY thing that matters is that you are a good person. That can never be stolen away.
Be Well Pinchus.
Well put. The only thing is that the good comments dissapeared next to the junk. Some points were good to have cause I just don't remember. I developed linear dependency where I know where to find comments and it confuses me greatly when they are gone.
I agree with you. But some unfortunately as has become too common have ruined it for others. I know you are very aware of this.
There are but two avenues; unpublish those individual remarks (that will just incur more needless whining and claims to persecution, etc.) and close all, and thus bringing back the respect given and nullifying the continuum of attitudes. I contacted the translator and the appropriate staff recently on it. As you may have read 'mud slinging in force' does not a poem make. When comments overpower a posting then priorities are gone. That is disrespectful to an artist and to any user. Forums and PMs exist and are easily utilized to channel communications needing to be expounded upon. That is the solution. The trolling must go. No one needs to read rules or be lectured to realize that.
Comments are not there to be the milieu of personality conflicts, of sour grapes. The easiest solution avoid negative trolling and post only positive/constructive thoughts given uniformly to users that are within that prescribed language capability. Within this clique, your solution - to self-police. Otherwise beyond this posting alone I have seen trolling directed at specific users. This cannot be tolerated. I have received numerous complaints and notifications of/from others. The time and effort taken to deal with the problems related to this is ridiculous. It needs to end. Every user here, even those who believe otherwise are appreciated and fairly dealt with from staff and whilst staff is aware. Regardless of any other personal perception... period. :) С теплыми пожеланиями.
Лена, PZ’s translation was “last edited” by WwWw. I don’t know what was in the comments and why they were gracefully deleted, but now I even doubt what was in the original translation since it was edited by the great power
Igeethecat schrieb:Лена, PZ’s translation was “last edited” by WwWw. I don’t know what was in the comments and why they were gracefully deleted, but now I even doubt what was in the original translation since it was edited by the great power
Маша, “last edited” by WwWw означает всего лишь, что это именно он что-то изменил на странице перевода - в данном случае это было удаление комментариев и ничего более. Если Вы, к примеру, через несколько дней после публикации своего перевода захотите просто добавить туда тэги, не меняя текста, то увидите под своим переводом last edited by Igeethecat и соответствующую дату. Тексты наших переводов никто не исправляет, их могут только удалить по каким-то причинам.
Ww Ww schrieb:As you wish.
You wish to your own comment, so, I guess all our comments are about to почить в бозе?
Selfie I make. Smile!
Надя, ещё раз повторяю: в комментариях к параллельному переводу, о которых мы сейчас говорим, мата не было. Я вот как раз не видела ни разу, чтобы мат удаляли. А нашу вполне пристойную дискуссию почему-то удалили. Более того, из Ваших слов кто-то может сделать вывод, что удалили именно "за мат и похабщину", и мы сейчас ничего не сможем доказать - комментарии-то удалены. Думаю, Вы согласитесь, что это вдвойне обидно и несправедливо.
Да там и личные-то выпады в глаза как-то не бросались. Надежда высказала мнение о переводе. Я с ним согласился. Диана посчитала, что критика была слишком жесткой. Я объяснил свою позицию и уверил, что как минимум мной такая задача не ставилась. Елена со мной и Надеждой не согласилась. После чего вся дискуссия (почти исключительно между мной и Еленой) шла о переводе и лингвистике. Без мата и взаимных выпадов. Единственный вопрос, не касающийся перевода, который я несколько раз поднимал, - это приписывание мне излишней настойчивости в призывах к правке текста. Но мы в итоге согласились, что это не так, а дискуссия завершилась обменом мнениями о хороших двуязычных изданиях стихов. Вот уж и правда дикая разборка с матом и руганью :) На этом дискуссия завершилась. Попыток еще "пофлудить" (хотя я такую оценку дискуссии не принимаю) я не заметил. Вот, собственно, вся Санта-Барбара in a nutshell (что переводчики книги Стивена Хокинга перевели как "в ореховой скорлупке").
Ребята, вы не понимаете. Мат был в комментариях под похабными частушками. Я практически в них участия не принимала. Я принимала противорвотное. Это было может месяца два назад. Так что это блеяние невинных овечек - наши комментарии удалили - лыком шито. Просто WwWw единственный мод, который знает русский достаточно хорошо, чтобы оценить всю тошнотворность этих комментариев. Я в жизни столько мата и похабщины не слышала.
Да, правила не запрещают нецензурные выражения в тексте песен, но это не значит, что таким же языком надо комментировать.
Надя, спасибо что пояснили. Понять Вас действительно было сложно, потому что Вы смешали в кучу два инцидента. Мы говорили про удаление конкретных комментариев, в которых не было ни мата, ни взаимных оскорблений, а Вы зачем-то припомнили события двухмесячной давности. Согласитесь, что это было не слишком корректно с Вашей стороны.
sandring schrieb:Ребята, вы не понимаете. Мат был в комментариях под похабными частушками. Я практически в них участия не принимала. Я принимала противорвотное. Это было может месяца два назад. Так что это блеяние невинных овечек - наши комментарии удалили - лыком шито. Просто WwWw единственный мод, который знает русский достаточно хорошо, чтобы оценить всю тошнотворность этих комментариев. Я в жизни столько мата и похабщины не слышала.
Да, правила не запрещают нецензурные выражения в тексте песен, но это не значит, что таким же языком надо комментировать.
Надя, не понимаете тут - вы
Wwww - в русском, как я - в монгольском
И харе стебаться
Это ж мило и смешно, не так ли?
Ну, поспешу ему свои знания передать, если он хочет.
А откуда вы, Надя, мой русский матерный знаете?
sandring schrieb:Лена, ты даже не представляешь какой. Пахабный до безобразия, причем некоторые дамы тоже высказывались. Плюс матерные шутки. Когда им админы пригрозили, тогда это все и прекратилось.
Надя, у вас, похоже, смешались в кучу кони, люди...
Вы опять про частушки? Какое отношение это имеет к этому конкретному эпизоду? Где вы похабщину увидели? Ах, да, все, кто с вами не согласен - либо хам, либо подлюка.
И что за чушь об угрожающих модераторах?
Подпись: некоторая дама
P.S. Матерные шутки - это ж голос народа, ими и классики не брезговали, а вы чураетесь
Вот вот, если сейчас эту ветку забанят (или как это у них называется), виноватым окажется Bro
Аre you trying to make a deal?
Well, how about you won’t delete any comments?
Lol. Even if you're a mod, do you really think that anyone wants to hear these rules you're preaching?
There are official rules of this website, plus you really need start practicing this golden rule philosophy with yourself.
Clearly, everyone [minus Nadya] who've visited this page (and some others) are against your habit (which in my opinion got out of hand long time ago) of constantly deleting comments in your translations or translations related to you. Grow up yourself, then teach others.
I don't see many comments being deleted on LT except when they're related to your translations. I saw racial remarks, political remarks, all kind of swearing, F-bombs being thrown at other users. It's seems to be o.k. No bans. No deleted pages or anything. That's normal. That's o.k. But god forbid to disagree with you.
*thumbs_up*
If you see infractions here then I would think you would report them. If you do not you share in their retention here. I see the PM system still is operational so you would have the confidentiality you need. As for comments, you are unaware as many are of all of the facts. That is by design for those who would dispense disinformation. As for preaching.... no one, including you has ever been treated badly by myself or any other moderator.
I am aware of the problems you bring up. I agree with you that they are unacceptable. As for bans, you are wrong there too. Bad conduct there does not rationalize bad conduct here. There's a plain and simple rule. It doesn't need to be printed it is a fact of courtesy. If a user says to leave them alone, that you or another's comments are unwanted that's exactly what they mean. If you feel compelled to comment then it would be best to go through a moderator.
It is very interesting that the folks that squawk the loudest will not approach moderators for a resolution. So there is no chance for resolution. So here we are in comments discussing things posturing that could have been fixed long ago. By the individual users. I will tell you for sure not everyone in your midst there is telling you the truth or relaying it in its entirety. If might be better to use discretion when subjective input overrides reality output.
The golden rule - whether you know it or not, for myself to others it always applies. That should be apparent in what you are reading. But the fact remains every user needs to be secure here and feel comfortable in in their desire to contribute. When others will not accept that then it must be addressed. You know all of this. Stop with the juvenile crap "Grow up yourself", that's for the playground. You are letting others bring you down. Emotions should not out rule rationale. If anyone has dropped the ball for consideration and respect it is evident here, very evident. As you see, no inconsideration given, only received. A two-way street simple as that.
I emphasized appropriate avenues of communication with you. Consideration for others and their duties. An overview of some of the things that take place that you may be unaware of. The realization that information in needs to be filtered, and information out needs to be guided by the golden rule. So now it's time to go on with a better perception. Those who will not respect others feelings here and their wishes for security and cooperation should look beyond.
Ww Ww schrieb:Stop with the juvenile crap "Grow up yourself", that's for the playground.
There are rules of this website, this is it.
And I usually do my best to obey them.
Excuse me, but I don't care about what you think appropriate, you're not my spiritual leader.
Excuse me, but I don't care which "appropriate avenues of communication" are fine with you.
My "appropriate avenue of communication" would be this comment box as long as we're having this conversation there or a similar one in the Public Forum or Members Only forum.
I'm trying to be a generally polite/respectful person to everyone on this website or in real life, but any respect should be earned.
Night Night.
Me going back to the playground.
Wwww, Золотое правило к вам, похоже, не относится
You have your own rules, not the golden ones, so pity
Ww Ww schrieb:But the fact remains every user needs to be secure here and feel comfortable in in their desire to contribute.
I'm sorry, but that cannot be achieved without turning this platform into an echo chamber. Btw, what people contribute is their translations. A translation is not your personal opinion or a deeply held belief that are best left alone; it's your public statement to anyone who wants to familiarise themselves with the original: 'here's what it says, cross my heart.' Which is why certain discussions are inevitable, especially the ones dealing with misrepresentation and misinterpretation. You can't seriously believe that discussions of publicly offered translations should be held in the privacy of PMs, can you? Yes, since it's people who do the talking, some unwelcome comments are inevitable. But if one seeks safety from public criticism, they shouldn't be publishing anything that can be criticised on a forum that has a comment section. And saying that everyone has a right to be shielded from criticism is hardly a mature approach. However, I do agree that people should make an effort to be respectful, even when discussing contentious issues or criticizing others.
As for PMs, yes, it's a tool that can help everyone involved save face, but it's not a universal tool, as you're making it out to be. I prefer to bounce my ideas off of many different people because it helps me identify flaws in my translations and reasoning much quicker than I otherwise would. Also, in a public forum you can get feedback from people you'd never PM. Yes, any public content may invite unwanted and even unwarranted remarks, but c'est la vie. So I prefer a public forum to PMs. But you seem to hold the view that a public discussion is an avenue for those who want to scratch their egos. No, it's not. I've just offered you another perspective - my own.
sandring schrieb:Да матом перестали ругаться и то хорошо.
Надя, а кто матом ругался? Или вам приведелось?
sandring schrieb:Shnurrbrat, can you give me a link to a comment with bad swearing (real bad like Russian "mat" ) that still hangs around in any language that you know. If you can't then don't bleat.
Why would I do this, Nadya? I'm not a janitor there. I stand by my comments that all of the above (racial/homophobic slur, swearing and attacks on other users were present [albeit in minor percentage (thanks god) to the normal content of this website], did appear and are on this website. But I don't want to point out on pages or users who started them. I saw translators leaving LT cause of this; let it be buried among good stuff that LT has. No one goes back to those pages afaik.
Take it easy, this conversation have gone of track and I need a nap.
Have a good weekend.
Translate some.
S.
...Похабный до безобразия, причем некоторые дамы тоже высказывались. Плюс матерные шутки...
=====================================
Жить без пищи можно сутки,
Можно больше, но порой
На войне одной минутки
Не прожить без прибаутки,
Шутки самой немудрой.
Не прожить, как без махорки,
От бомбежки до другой
Без хорошей поговорки
Или присказки какой...
:) :D
No man knows the meaning of his existence by that which he will never see that outlasts him. An ancestral gift given by a man with no children of his own yet his life continues to effect the paths of men.