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Adding idioms to the lyrics

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Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/alsweider" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1373058">Alsweider</a>
Lid geworden op: 21.02.2018
Pending moderation

Is there a code for linking idioms to a lyrics page?

Moderator sapiens sapiens
<a href="/nl/translator/knee427" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1110108">Alma Barroca</a>
Lid geworden op: 05.04.2012

No, if the lyrics contain idioms (and if said idioms were already added to the database), a 'Idioms in (song title)' block will show up. It's automatic, you don't have to do anything. That extends to translations.

You may check an example here: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/Beyonce-Wishing-Star-lyrics.html

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017

Many times idioms will not be automatically linked because of the verb conjugation, words’ order, etc. You can add a footnote or author’s comment with the exact idiom ‘title’, then it will be added into “Idioms from...” section of your translation or transcription

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Lid geworden op: 13.04.2017

You can add a link to an idiom to any text using this tag (idiom name="name")Idiom goes here(/idiom) (you should change round brackets ( ) to square ones [ ] to make it work like this Please read these compose tips they are really helpful. Wink smile

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/alsweider" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1373058">Alsweider</a>
Lid geworden op: 21.02.2018

Thanks for all the answers, @Brat exactly what I was searching for, thank you, I have tried it and it worked.

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Lid geworden op: 13.04.2017

It should work always, just make sure you copy the exact idiom text (those red characters on the idiom's page) into the {idiom name} field - there's a possible space for errors (lacking commas, etc). Wink smile Unfortunately automatic detection sucks badly - like here, for instance. It cannot retreive even slightly modified idioms. Sad smile I wish there was a 'possible idioms' section under a song's text where some heuristic results basing on partial-match retrieval may be included. Then there may be a 'not an idiom' button for correcting this section by members fluent or native in the provided language.

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017
Brat a écrit :

It should work always, just make sure you copy the exact idiom text (those red characters on the idiom's page) into the {idiom name} field - there's a possible space for errors (lacking commas, etc). Wink smile Unfortunately automatic detection sucks badly - like here, for instance. It cannot retreive even slightly modified idioms.

And as I mentioned, you can add a footnote to {not exact idiom in your translation/transcription} (fn)exact idiom name(/fn)
Then the ‘exact idiom’ will be displayed in ‘idioms used’ block.
I think it works.

I have another question about idioms though:
Let’s say you’ve added a new idiom and you want to add an equivalent to it in another language. But the equivalent already exists. How go you “link” them? The only choice I see is to add ‘a duplicate’. Any workarounds?

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Lid geworden op: 13.04.2017

You've mentioned another possible way, though the {idiom} tag in addition to making a direct clickable link also lists the target idiom below the lyrics text, for instance -> https://lyricstranslate.com/en/yanka-dyagileva-%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%8F%D0%B7%...
Sometimes it's more convenient not to overload lyrics with footnotes especially if they are already in plenty.
As for idioms' equivalents - there's surely a bug leading to creation of a new idiom record every time you want to add an equivalent. I do not know any workaround, unfortunately, though there may be some...
Someone may have discovered it already. I gave it a try but not succeeded having got a bunch of duplicates that littered the idioms section a bit. Sad smile This was the reason for me to stop but still I see many duplicates that makes me think someone has advanced much further... Wink smile

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017

Well, now, since it is documented, it is not a bug, it is a feature Teeth smile

I think it would be a great improvement if “Add equivalent” would allow you to select only from the existing idioms drop-down list, if it not on the list, then add a new idiom and then link them. And it would be nice if mods could merge idioms. There is a lot of duplicates spelled the same or differently. It would be also beneficial to have “This is not an equivalent” button Wink smile

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Lid geworden op: 31.08.2018

I'm catching up here, but I have had issues when I connected items in the past.

I wished I had listed them separately instead of connecting them.

I will re-read this thread more carefully, because right now my brain is overloaded, but last time I linked my own item to a pre-existing item, I regretted it. I said to myself, maybe people are deliberately listing them separately because they have learned from experience that when you attach, you have issues.

I'm so stressed out over this, I won't even touch idioms. I've been putting them in footnotes.

But I will try the tags, after I recover from my "trauma". Angry smile

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Lid geworden op: 13.04.2017

It looks like idioms section became a little bit easier to use but we still need some effort to make it operate in a shipshape manner. Still there's a lot of trash among the goodies... Sad smile

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017

Maybe they tried to improve something, but they broke something else

I was trying to post a comment to ‘an idiom’ and was getting a Chinese error, so I thought “maybe my comment is too long”, I shortened the comment and LT saved it, but now, when I am trying to change the comment, the site kicks me out, literally, it even closes the window for me, so nice of it to take a good care of good fellows 🤬

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Lid geworden op: 13.04.2017

Besides the idioms database, the search engine needs to be improved radically. It should take into account declensional endings for languages that have cases so that it could pick up at least 80% of idioms out of context in the texts written in such languages. Now the engine works fair enough only for English, French, and the like.

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Lid geworden op: 31.08.2018

It's an outstanding feature. It just needs some "bugs" worked out.

At the right time, I suggest LT to post a training video, and/or, to do a quarterly Bluejeans-type teaching session in which people can chat about issues/confusion. It's stressful trying to type about this specific issue, trying to get your point understood.

Meantime, the tags might be just what the proverbial doctor ordered.

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/brat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1334845">Brat</a>
Lid geworden op: 13.04.2017
BreezyDay a écrit :

Meantime, the tags might be just what the proverbial doctor ordered.

Not after death, I hope... Teeth smile

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017
Brat a écrit :

Besides the idioms database, the search engine needs to be improved radically. It should take into account declensional endings for languages that have cases so that it could pick up at least 80% of idioms out of context in the texts written in such languages. Now the engine works fair enough only for English, French, and the like.

Bro, it is not impossible to write an algorithm to catch all possible tenses, moods, cases, genders and other fancy words, there is even a word for it - an artificial intelligence

Gast
 Gast

It could be possible to recognize an idiom simply by dropping the word endings and matching the rest, but that would require a considerable amount of work. A too naive algorithm would likely recognize random bits of sentences as idioms. Besides, it would only work for languages with declensions like Russian.

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017

OMG, this why they keep us (humans) alive, cause they realized that Babbel Tower was not good experiment at all Regular smile

Gast
 Gast

Depends on what your "they" stands for.

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017

I thought you know I do not believe in God. But I sincerely respect

Is it an answer to your question?

Gast
 Gast

I was rather thinking of the GAFAs, using humanity as livestock Regular smile

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Lid geworden op: 31.08.2018

I hate to say this, but sometimes the same phrase is used two or three completely different ways. So we'll go from one problem to another. Because if everything is picked up, there will be no pattern. It will become confusing.

There may be merit in multiple connected entries. It's just that it's not working right. As someone (Igee) alluded to in this thread already, the first problem is the Idioms search currently needs an exact string of characters and that's a root of the problem.

Maybe the 'Idioms' page and the 'Add an idiom' page should not be separate. Maybe just eliminate the 'Idioms' page altogether. ???

(I'm afraid to ask, but what are GAFAs?)

Gast
 Gast

Trouble with idioms is, people tend to add entries that are nothing more than possible meanings of a single word.
That leads the system to flag as idioms random bits of sentences with no idiomatic meaning whatsoever.

Idiom equivalence is another huge pitfall. Jumping back and forth between languages tends to blur semantics, so that idioms with completely different meanings end up being categorized as equivalent.

Quite a few people put wrong explanations too, that lead other people to propose equivalents matching the explanations but not the actual expression.

Frankly speaking, the idiom database is a mess. It would require a huge cleanup effort to become a reliable reference.

My idea to make it more reliable would be to have a few (maybe 5) users validate each entry, so that gross misinterpretations could be eliminated before polluting the database. But that would not solve the issue of the thousands upon thousands of wrong entries already present in the system.

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017

I think the idioms module is great. Would’ve been helpful if a person transcribing the song would put some comments/footnotes about “this is an idiom” or even better “this is a modification of such an idiom” but I guess people don’t care anymore?

Gast
 Gast

I do that all the time, but I'm just one guy among many people Teeth smile

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Lid geworden op: 31.08.2018
ingirumimusnocte a écrit :

Frankly speaking, the idiom database is a mess. It would require a huge cleanup effort to become a reliable reference.

My idea to make it more reliable would be to have a few (maybe 5) users validate each entry, so that gross misinterpretations could be eliminated before polluting the database.

DING DING DING!!!! This gets a prize.

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/jadis" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1387945">Jadis</a>
Lid geworden op: 01.07.2018
BreezyDay a écrit :

(I'm afraid to ask, but what are GAFAs?)

Ha, that I know : Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon.

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Lid geworden op: 31.08.2018

People who cared maybe have been driven away.

At first, I cared very much, spent much time.

But I won't get near it again until they've had time to address these matters. I need to know that my time is not being wasted. I am not motivated by points. I am motivated by treating others as I want to be treated. I want people who love a song to be able to understand it.

I had full-on anxiety attacks. But I'm that way sometimes.

I do, however, put footnotes in my songs.

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Lid geworden op: 31.08.2018

All our input is valuable and intelligent. I just thought that he got to the crux of the matter.

Gast
 Gast

I think the idiom database is a great idea, but it requires some kind of quality control to become a reliable tool.
Achieving quality based on random individual contributions is not easy.
The opinion of a few random users is no fail-proof tool, but it's easy to implement and should filter out the excesses of some users flooding the database with useless and/or wrong entries.

I don't approve of giving points to users for filling the idioms database. That attracts people seeking this elusive selfish Internet fame instead of working for the common good.

It's ok to have people publishing garbage translations for fame, you can always publish alternate versions.
But the corruption of the idioms database is like a wasting disease. It harms the tool as a whole and is nigh impossible to fix.
Inciting clueless people to add more entropy to it is not a good idea, in my opinion.

Senior Member
<a href="/nl/translator/breezyday" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1394713">BreezyDay</a>
Lid geworden op: 31.08.2018
ingirumimusnocte a écrit :

I don't approve of giving points to users for filling the idioms database. That attracts people seeking this elusive selfish Internet fame instead of working for the common good.

I agree. I hate to agree, because points can be like thanks. And many idioms are correct and high quality, with a cited source and an example. Some idioms display integrity.

Maybe if there were people checking incoming/new idioms, they could click a points button if it is accurate and well done. Maybe "rejections" could be handled with utmost kindness: thank you so much but this does not seem accurate".

It might be easier for those "5" to become experts than for new subscribers like myself to learn while making mistakes. I think I tried deleting a mistake but couldn't do it. At the time I was not aware that I could find "my" idioms through my account. I'm a slow learner!

On the other hand, there would need to be 5 in each language, some who know older idioms, someone who knows street slang of young ones, and knowledge of idioms within one language but in different regions.

I do not envy the administrators/designers in these decisions. No matter what conclusions are drawn, there will be a "con". They have to choose "the lesser of so many evils" and then make it work. It's nice that they even allow us to provide feedback. Many sites do not.

This is a complicated matter.

Gast
 Gast

Giving points for entries approved by other users would be quite ok.
It's just that this incentive should be balanced by some kind of control mechanism.

lt
Administrator
<a href="/nl/translator/lt" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1">lt</a>
Lid geworden op: 27.05.2008
Igeethecat a écrit :

Maybe they tried to improve something, but they broke something else

I was trying to post a comment to ‘an idiom’ and was getting a Chinese error, so I thought “maybe my comment is too long”, I shortened the comment and LT saved it, but now, when I am trying to change the comment, the site kicks me out, literally, it even closes the window for me, so nice of it to take a good care of good fellows 🤬

[@Igeethecat] Could you let us know which comment you're referring to?

Super Member
<a href="/nl/translator/igeethecat" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1365086">Igeethecat</a>
Lid geworden op: 16.12.2017
lt a écrit :
Igeethecat a écrit :

Maybe they tried to improve something, but they broke something else

I was trying to post a comment to ‘an idiom’ and was getting a Chinese error, so I thought “maybe my comment is too long”, I shortened the comment and LT saved it, but now, when I am trying to change the comment, the site kicks me out, literally, it even closes the window for me, so nice of it to take a good care of good fellows 🤬

[@Igeethecat] Could you let us know which comment you're referring to?

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/булочки-грозно-рычали#comment-537924...

I am on iPad

lt
Administrator
<a href="/nl/translator/lt" class="userpopupinfo username" rel="user1">lt</a>
Lid geworden op: 27.05.2008

We saw your comment there before unpublishing, even edited it successfully.
If you encounter such an error again, please save the exact comment text that can't be saved and PM it to us.

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