Rules updated: extra-short lyrics and off-topic comments

Regarding #1.
This one looks extra short: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/hakuin-ekaku-sekishu-no-koe-lyrics.html
If you think so, please unpublish.

Well, was it officially released?

Btw, @lt does that mean, the lyrics were officially released, or the song?

Sounds like trumpism ...
:(

Freedom to bully people is another form of oppression.
I find that regrettable, but if people cannot be trusted to restrain themselves, the law has to kick in to protect the collectivity.
If that's the price to pay to avoid sliding toward Youtube, so be it.

I suppose that's the price to pay for letting zealots have their way for too long.
I can't say if I will stand it, but I'd rather be out of here than overstay my welcome.

I really don't see why that was so much of a problem.
If there was arising an unpleasant conversation in the comment section of a translation,
why didn't we give the authority to the respective translator to demand to stop it?

I do see why that can be a problem. Some comments simply drive people away, even if they are not offensive in themselves. Sometimes a discussion gets out of hand, no biggie (or so I hope, being myself prone to occasional ranting), but when every translation turns into a mud fight people eventually give up trying to contribute.

This is another form of violence though. Cancelling someone's speech is a true act of violence, guaranteed to fuel anger and resentment when it is used to cut off the dialogue abruptly, without even a word of explanation. Better leave this exercise of violence to law enforcers, in a context where decisions can be discussed and justified.
This is why I don't think this "stop list" is a good thing btw, even if I accept the decision to implement it.

You are now banned for bringing politics in...
Please turn in your membership papers.

I just hope this doesn't escalate to those Moderator dictator comments...

Haha, Alma! Mods are usually benign dictators!

DarkLad,
I think escapism already happened when so many people closed and continue to close eyes to tyranny, corruption, and inaptitude of certain leaders. I will adhere to the no politics rule on the translation pages, but will never stop clarifying the truth for those who can’t be bothered to fact check and/or prone to indoctrination.

Nooo. My two fav Frenchmen aren’t welcome to my black melancholy - must have faith into humanity.
I’m struggling myself when I look at the pics of the poor minks... what horror it is to raise millions of creatures to kill them for virus or for fur...

[quote=Alma Barroca] I'm against giving general users abilities to disable commenting because it would/could be a way to prevent criticism

Anybody who wants to criticize in good faith can always use PM. Otherwise it is just showing off or a provocation. I am appalled by your not getting a simple fact that by not allowing authors-translators to control bad faith commenting you discourage people from creating and posting translations.
There are bullies out there who know how to make their bullying appear "legit" to mods. Good luck with appealing to the better nature of bad faith commenters. It never worked and it will never work.
Authors can't rely on all-knowing, all-noticing, always-so-fair mods that may or may not be on the same page with them culturally.

My strong opinion: whoever creates a translation is the owner of what's posted following their original post of the translation including comments. Give the authors tools to facilitate that ownership. That can be easily separated from "Thanks" and ratings.

I actually meant specific issues...

There have been cases where a user was told they broke the rules (and were even given low ratings for it) and they simply deleted the translation and uploaded it again so neither Mod's comment nor user's complains could be seen - and, to no surprise, they even brought friends along to retaliate those who showed they did something wrong. I've also seen users going and picking on specific targets, so bad/good faith is not the case here. It's a matter of courtesy and good sense.

We've always told people to refrain from saying things that have nothing to do with translation/lyrics content, but we're not kindergarten teachers, we can't forbid people from doing whatever they want - again, courtesy and good sense. They just need to understand that in case they do something bad, they'll face the consequences.

My fellow Mod Ellen also said things as they are, though.

In that case, a mod or editor who does speak the language will be notified and asked to evaluate the conversations. In the mean time, any comments that are inappropriate will be unpublished.

Yes, it would make it easier on us. But at the same time, users who refuse to be criticized in any way could simple quiet anyone, abusing that option to do that. We can't monitor users who will abuse it, there's dozens of users who already do that. If it was maybe a few who did that, maybe it could be implemented. Again, we don't police users, we simply remind them that by creating an account on LT they agree to abide by the rules, if they don't then there's consequences.

For example, a few months ago there was a user who disagreed with our decision to unpublish their collection because they were advertising their program where users had to pay to use their services. That's a slap in the face of actual companies that pay to have their advertisements displayed on the site (for non-registered users) that pay to keep this site running. What did they do? they retaliated by commenting on my translations and leaving nasty comments under it. I didn't unpublish their comments, I could have, but I didn't. Instead, I faced them head on and reminded them that the decision was made by several moderators and I just so happened to be the one who clicked the 'unpublished' button. They further retaliated by sending me threats via PM, some which I can't repeat because they violate these sites rules.

The same way where I have criticized users in the past for submitting translations that deviated so much from the original lyrics, the translations were basically an adaption and they didn't state this in their submission, misleading users into believing it was an actual translation. If they had the ability to silence me, they'd be abusing their power by doing so. It's a two way street with that option.

As for suggestions that end up being implemented into the site, users have that opportunity and the admins will decide if it can be implemented and if there's enough support for it from the general public. I've made suggestions in the past as a moderator, some of them have never been implemented despite my position, the same goes for others moderators who have also made suggestions and their suggestions were also never implemented.

The admins make these decisions, not moderators or editors. Think of us as assistants to the administrators, we can get together and try and make decisions and if we have the power to do so (unpublishing, adding content, removing content etc.) there needs to be a legitimate reason for it. We can't make decisions based on nothing but our opinions, there needs to be proof that something violates the rules. In the past if we did this, the admins would reverse what we did and would state that the content could be allowed to stay because there was insufficient evidence. So we have to be careful with how we handle things. Unpublishing something could be done as a sort of 'pending until a decision can be made' move if it's a hotspot for people arguing but not really the right move depending on the content. I don't agree that the comments section should be completely removed, if anything it should be 'closed' until people cool down or we the moderators can come to an agreement with what should be done (what comments will be unpublished) and a moderator/editor who speaks the language has time to examine the comments.

Well, assuming LT is supposed to work like Youtube, which is the last thing I would want to see.

Are you a stake-holder in the company that owns LT? If you are, are you 100% owner? If you are not, are you sure that the owners agree
with your position? I've been around Internet companies my whole life. If any of my employees dismissed the traffic generating factors
as easily as you do ...

If the original content is out of bounds, then the mods can deal with it. If it is within bounds, your opposition won't do much, don't kid yourself.
If somebody intends a provocation, then your "opposition" in comments is exactly what they are looking for.

I guess getting rid of the 'Videos' section was good, in the end ;)

Please, clarify what "extra-short lyrics" means and what' s wrong with them (what are they guilty of)?

Dear moderators! Can you forbid extra-long lyrics instead? It's dreary to read them, to translate - all the more.

Why does it sound like your opinion weighs more? You must have access to the owners, you need to explain how traffic should be drawn, your opinions are important while the rest of us should relax as we are irrelevant?
Love you, but you need to relax as well!

Oops, seems you picked the wrong channel to reach the power that be and discuss serious business.

I was not picking any channels nor was I actually trying to reach anybody. We had a discussion and the question that interested me was if
the authors should have the right to control the comments. And I think they should - at least at Youtube level. But with some editors here (wink, wink) Youtube is a bad word almost like a porn site. And I said: it is idiotic. What would LT be without Youtube? Probably would not have needed so many editors...

Wow, in former times they said here (in Western-Germany): "If you don't like it here, go to the GDR.!" That means, "we don't want to hear your opinion, go away!"