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Кто умный?

Вряд ли ты счастлив, если знаешь,
Что кто-то рядом весь в слезах.
Но умным тот себя считает,
Кто всех оставил в дураках!
 
Перевод

מי חכם?

אם תראה איך מישהו בוכה
אושרך לא יהיה מלא
אבל אם תעבוד על אחרים
תהיה חכם - אלה הכללים!
 
Комментарии
david_kotlerdavid_kotler    пн, 08/03/2021 - 14:45

Hi Igor, I like this - cleverly done on your part. Just one really small detail, and I may be wrong about this (its been a while since I formally studied Hebrew), but in the second line, do you need the "ה", in האושרך?

Dr_IgorDr_Igor
   пн, 08/03/2021 - 15:18

Beats me, David. My only formal education was ulpan. Not sure but I think it works. I also think it's not exactly like in English where "the your
happiness" would be ridiculous. It is more like "the happiness of yours", i.e. it's presumed that you are happy for a specific reason at this moment in time as opposed to being generally happy all the time. But again, I am not totally sure. If you figure it out, let me know.

IsraelWuIsraelWu    чт, 25/03/2021 - 10:42

Вряд ли ты счастлив means "are you happy....?"
האושרך לא יהיה מלא
means "will your happiness not be full/perfect ?" (?!)
The "ה" is a standard beginning of a question in Hebrew, but it appears only in conjunction with verb and there it would be OK. In speech you can skip it and the question is recognized by your intonation only. Before a noun the full word "האם" should appear (someting like "do/does" coming to the head of the sentence and making it a question). So you need here ".?... האם אושרך" However, it seems to me that the "לא" here is an additional problem.
The negative here makes the question "will your happiness not be full/perfect ?" while it seems to me you wanted to say: "will your happiness be full/perfect (if you know somebody is crying) ?"
To summarize, the line should look like this:
האם אושרך יהיה מלא

Dr_IgorDr_Igor
   чт, 25/03/2021 - 13:37

Hey IsraelWu, thanks for commenting, but I don't think you paid enough attention here

>Вряд ли ты счастлив means "are you happy....?"
I need zero help in translating from Russian to English. "Вряд ли ты счастлив" means It is doubtful that you are happy.
Not sure what led to believe that there are questions in the text . There's not a single question mark neither in the original not in my translation.
Those are assertions, not questions.

Switching gears: I've kinda thrownan informal request for transcribing a part in Polish that Anna Maria Jopek sings in a duet with Noa in Zichron Yakov of all places. Should be trivial for a native Polish speaker. Is you Polish native level?
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/anna-maria-jopek-uri-lyrics.html

IsraelWuIsraelWu    чт, 25/03/2021 - 11:01

Sorry, correction.
You can put "ה" on a noun for the question but it sounds really awkward. In this case I would say
האושרך מלא יהיה
a full inversion of order. It seems perhaps more sophisticated and fancy talk

IsraelWuIsraelWu    чт, 25/03/2021 - 16:26

A. I know my Russian isn't that good and I slipped answering without checking. My excuse: No direct question marks, still a feeling of knowing the answer. And I know for sure you don't need my help in Russian and I believe you, in English as well. I was simply overwhelmed by your answer to David Kotler and didn't really understand it as it was as much preposterous as was my intervention.
What threw me out was that you treated the "ה" as if it was the "the" article in English. I just couldn't get it, it didn't cross my mind, I didn't understand your reference "the your happiness" as it simply is impossible in Hebrew. The letter "ה" can serve in Hebrew a "the" article of English or a start of a question, something like "Do you/ I /we" or something in this vein, always ending with a question mark. This was automatically the only possibility I had in mind. The other one simply didn't exist. You see, an article like "the" makes the object a specific and not an undefined entity. The screwdriver is a specific object of the class of screwdrivers, not 'a screwdriver' - general member of this class. Now, both in Hebrew and in English you can't "brand" a thing twice within a class. The moment you say "אושרך" it's branded as your happiness and you can't put an "ה" on it. You can divide things into subclasses by some property and define them by the class and its subclasses, like saying "bring my screwdriver, the smallest one, please". If you say "bring me my screwdriver" we assume both sides know which one, it's already branded uniquely.
In short: You can never say/write "האושרך"..

B. My Polish is good, better probably than of part of today's high school or even university graduates (except Polish Lit.)
My lacunae:
Today's slang, especially younger generation (it goes for Hebrew too)
Probably profession slanted language of some professions (law, administration, etc.). I don't think we have to expect it.
Don't know almost nothing about the musical needs of a performance of any type
I'll send you a PM with particulars later (today, tomorrow)
Israel

Dr_IgorDr_Igor
   чт, 25/03/2021 - 17:26

Hey Israel,
nobody throws words like "preposterous" when talking about what I said/wrote and then gets away unharmed. It is an offensive word in English in case you didn't know. Again, you are getting ahead of yourself not allowing enough time to understand what I was saying. What I said was that "the your happiness" is ridiculous and incorrect, while "the happiness of yours" would be (almost) correct - the actual correct expression would be "this happiness of yours" which semantically in English is "like" "the happiness of yours". So in "this happiness of yours" we have this "dual branding" of "happiness" that you implied can't happen in English as well as in Hebrew. I'll trust you with the Hebrew part , but English is a different language as you know. So " אושרך הזה" would probably be incorrect in Hebrew (would it?) as opposed to its full analog in English "this happiness of yours"...

IsraelWuIsraelWu    пт, 26/03/2021 - 00:25

So, I am harmed, I don't like it, but I'll live. BTW, isn't "offensive" an offensive word too :-). Never mind, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I never did mean that you are preposterous or even close to it. What I tried to say is that both the structure "the your happiness" and my intervention were preposterous. "This happiness of yours" you could translate to Hebrew as "אושרך זה" or as " האושר שלך" where you write explicitly the whole word "שלך" and not only the suffix "ך" and they are not exactly equivalent, the first one could be used to point out your current burst/display of happiness, the second one is just "your happiness", without "the", but "double branding". Don't ask me why, probably a single word can't carry the weight of "double branding", too complicated, too accident-prone. I am not a linguist, you know, certainly not a comparative one.

Dr_IgorDr_Igor
   пт, 26/03/2021 - 03:22

Yeah, the same situation in English two expressions semantically identical, one is legit, the other one is not.

Dr_IgorDr_Igor
   пт, 26/03/2021 - 04:44

So Israel, "אושרך זה" is legit, right? If you say so, I'm going to use it. It fits rhythmically. David, what do you think?

IsraelWuIsraelWu    пт, 26/03/2021 - 09:53

Affirmative (I'll check it later once again, it could be influenced somehow by the reminder of the sentence, but current structure after the change seems correct)

IsraelWuIsraelWu    сб, 27/03/2021 - 21:46

It is OK and somehow I feel stupid. Usually I am the one on the receiving end, I do something that the "natives" don't like but I have my reasons. It's correct, you told me your reason (the syllables count) and I accept it. Just without "זה" the sentence looks to me more natural. Should I think about other structures, more natural but with the same number of syllables or are you tired of the game?

Dr_IgorDr_Igor
   вс, 28/03/2021 - 04:52

No Israel, It is a misunderstanding. This is not a haiku so the number of syllables is not absolutely critical. But it does matter for the
meter/rhythm. Here it can work without "זה", Actually,I just rechecked and isn't it funny, without "זה" it has the same number of syllables as Mary's original.
Not sure what made me think that I need that extra syllable. Apparently, my math degree is too low to figure it out ;-)
So "זה" is out. Case closed.

IsraelWuIsraelWu    вс, 28/03/2021 - 08:25

In engineering it's easier. You spit on your finger, stick it out into the air and make your decision by wind direction :-)