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Dozhd' vselenskiy (Дождь вселенский) (перевод на Английский)

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Русский

Dozhd' vselenskiy (Дождь вселенский)

 
Только дождь вселенский нас утешит
Только страх реальный нам поможет
Душезаменитель1 нам спасенье
Мы не вспомним — нас забудут тоже
 
Наши слёзы — камни по макушкам
Акт любви в большой холодной бане
Только ветер в рукавах и шапках
 
Только дом, в котором очень тихо
Жёлтый мир, которого всё больше
 
Вечный путь до2 края и не дальше
Сонный страх проститься3 со следами4
 
Очень просто в море тонет остров
Очень верно, если безответно
 
Очень в точку, если в одиночку...
 
  • 1. Может означать как "заменитель души", так и "заменитель душа"
  • 2. "Официальный сайт" даёт вариант "от"
  • 3. так на "официальном сайте", хотя на слух вполне может быть и "простится", произносятся оба слова одинаково; а здесь кроме "простится" в электронном варианте приведены также варианты из печатных изданий: "проситься", "просится", что не очень вяжется с общим смыслом песни
  • 4. здесь и во всех печатных текстах - "слезами"
Добавлено Brat в сб, 22/04/2017 - 18:04
В последний раз исправлено Brat в пн, 24/09/2018 - 18:26
Комментарий:

The song is at 2:49

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перевод на Английский (equirhythmic)

Worldwide Rain

Версии: #1#2
Only a worldwide rain will console us
Only real alarm is able to help us
Our first aids are substitutes of souls1
We're forgotten if we do not remember
 
Our tears hit the pates as stones
Act of love in a huge cold bathhouse
Only wind blows in the sleeves and beanies
 
Only a completely muted house
The yellow world that is growing larger
 
The age-long way to2 the edge, not farther
The half'sleep fright to part3 with the footprints4
 
The sea swamps an island very simply
It’s veracious if it is unanswered
 
If it's solo, it's spot on, not hollow...
 
  • 1. or "of bath showers"
  • 2. there's also another variant: "from"
  • 3. there are two possible variants of meaning (dependent on what is actually sung): "fright of having to part" or "fright will part"
  • 4. there's another variant: "tears"
Добавлено Brat в сб, 22/04/2017 - 18:11
В последний раз исправлено Brat в вт, 25/09/2018 - 18:14
Комментарии
petit élève    сб, 15/09/2018 - 18:15

affright -> who else would have resorted to a term both the Oxford and the Webster categorize as archaic, the latter considering it valid only as a verb? Teeth smile

Brat    сб, 15/09/2018 - 18:22

Nevertheless it's still a well understandable and phonaesthetically best choice. Wink smile

petit élève    сб, 15/09/2018 - 18:23

I'm affrighted you're right

Brat    сб, 15/09/2018 - 18:42
Quote:

Желтый цвет в творчестве Янки имеет строгую привязанность к двум определяемым существительным: «цвет светофора» и «волчьи глаза». Именно через желтый происходит своеобразное расширение и искажение «реального» пространства: данный цвет, как и во многом аналогичный ему по функциям синий становится своеобразным медиумом, посредником меж двумя мирами, но, в отличие от иных цветов, желтый является наиболее «пассивным». В привычный городской пейзаж зачастую достаточно механически вводятся сторонние наблюдатели – беспристрастные и объективные, включается иная реальность – дикий и свободный мир леса: «Паутину простирать да вешать комаров.
Желтых волчьих взглядов дулом упереться в грудь...» Ночные улицы без движения перестали нуждаться в ограничении и управлении, на них полностью воцарились желтые глаза анархии, желтый свет Свободной Стаи: «В степном снежном вечере правда сотнями желтых огоньков
Светится да вьется криком в опрокинутых санях». Включенность желтого цвета в ночную палитру Янки, безусловно, не случайна и обусловлена самими описываемыми реалиями: ночной город, погруженный во тьму, не показывает иных красок, кроме «желтых тарелок светофора» да пятен кое-где светящихся фонарей. Подобная привязка цвета в основном лишь к двум реалиям делает необычайно важными те немногочисленные случаи употребления желтого в иных контекстах, с иными определяемыми словами. Мне удалось обнаружить лишь два подобных случая. Постоянная корреспонденция желтого цвета с одним из цветов светофора, ставшая устойчивым символом ночи и пустоты «жизненного пространства» стихотворений Янки, получает свое неожиданное развитие в демонстрации сумасшествия, царящего в окружающей лирического героя действительности: «Глотаем яд в таблетках пожелтевших.
Терзать слова – шаги к шизофрении...»
«Только дом, в котором очень тихо,
Желтый мир, которого все больше,
Вечный путь до края и не дальше...» Таким образом, перед нами удивительная дихотомия желтого цвета: с одной стороны, он является воплощением неограниченности свободы сознания и личности вообще, но, с другой стороны, он же становится и намеком на реальное завершение таковой свободы – сумасшествие.
https://go.org.ua/yanka/stat/178.shtml

Igeethecat    сб, 15/09/2018 - 19:16

Да уж, очень украинский флаг напоминает (без обид к братьям славянам)
но в конце концов так и получается? «жёлтый мир» понимать как «жёлтый дом»?

Brat    сб, 15/09/2018 - 19:33

Вы, простите, Маркеса-то читали?
Просто чувак написал неплохую статью, однако по какой-то причине не обратил внимание на то, что жёлтый цвет имено в этой песне употребляется в контексте дождя, что как раз-таки очень коррелирует с его "посреднической" ролью. Т.е. дождь - посредник между небом и землёй, а жёлтый цвет - посредник между мирами. Т.е. "жёлтый мир" - это на самом деле мир дуальный, объединённый из двух противоположностей, как в мозгу шизофреника - вот тут-то он и смыкается с "жёлтым домом". Wink smile

Brat    вс, 16/09/2018 - 15:23

Так он первый додумался вплести этот древний мифологический концепт в лубочный жанр, чем произвёл фурор не только среди непритязательных латиноамериканских читателей, но и по всему миру. Не было бы Маркеса - не было бы "Гадких лебедей" Стругацких, "Столетних дождей" Янки, Егора и ещё много кого. Было бы что-то другое. Вот при чём здесь Маркес. Я вот только не в курсе, как он в СССР попал: с Марксом, что ли, спутали. Regular smile

petit élève    сб, 15/09/2018 - 18:50

Reference dictionaries from both sides of the Atlantic seem to agree on "tousle" : a verb, meaning "make something untidy", especially a person's hair. The connection with a fur hat seems tenuous at best Regular smile Or is there another meaning to шапка I missed?

путь от края -> maybe you could render the idiomatic meaning more explicitly?
An endless struggle to only barely manage to stay out of trouble, I guess?

Brat    сб, 15/09/2018 - 18:54
petit élève wrote:

Reference dictionaries from both sides of the Atlantic seem to agree on "tousle" : a verb, meaning "make something untidy", especially a person's hair. The connection with a fur hat seems tenuous at best Regular smile Or is there another meaning to шапка I missed?

Well, it's been used without object because I thought the object is obvious, just as you've just written - it's hair. I didn't want to stick to a literal translation, having an intention to render a whole picture.

petit élève wrote:

путь от края -> maybe you could render the idiomatic meaning more explicitly?
An endless struggle to only barely manage to stay out of trouble, I guess?

I'm affrighted, it's not so easy. It's not до края, but the quite opposite. Cry smile Nevertheless I'll think of it.

petit élève    сб, 15/09/2018 - 19:01

Ok, why not. But still, using a verb as a noun is asking for trouble. That's what gerunds are for, aren't they?
It's a serious offense against English syntax, that might cost you your poetic license Regular smile

petit élève    сб, 15/09/2018 - 19:28

"beanies" sounds a bit mundane. Tiara? Miter? Turban? Top hat?
Ok sorry, I just couldn't resist pulling your leg.

Yes, "с краю чуть-чуть отойти" sounds like the same idea. Stop living on the edge, if only a bit further away from it, right?

Brat    сб, 15/09/2018 - 19:37
petit élève wrote:

"beanies" sounds a bit mundane. Tiara? Miter? Turban? Top hat?

Any and all of them at the same time. Regular smile

petit élève wrote:

Yes, "с краю чуть-чуть отойти" sounds like the same idea. Stop living on the edge, if only a bit further away from it, right?

Yep, you just need to read a bit more of Yanka's poetry to make it clearer..

petit élève    сб, 15/09/2018 - 19:34

That's just the kind of hat you would wear in France to keep your head warm.
A pretty good adaptation, I'd say Regular smile

BlackSea4ever    сб, 15/09/2018 - 22:37

Beanies... Next thing, you will use skullcap, chapeau, sombrero, or some other variation. What was wrong with hat - too simple? I think we need a collection of the most contrived translations, and issue a badge for it.

OpalMoon    вс, 16/09/2018 - 01:25

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I've ever heard "hit the bingo" used as an expression. "Bingo" on its own, yes, similar to "you got it!", but not the other one. Also, I would suggest that there shouldn't be an "if" in the last line of the first stanza as there is no "если". Sure, one may argue that it's implied, but I would argue that it's a statement: she's explicitly stating that nobody needs anyone anymore in this world she's writing about.

petit élève    вс, 16/09/2018 - 01:44

"'hit the bingo" sounds a bit fishy indeed. Could evoke hitting the bingo button in a Las Vegas casino maybe, but I don't know whether a native would use that.
"hit the jackpot" is certainly more usual, but I don't really know how well that would match the meaning of "в точку" (something you say when you hit your target, as far as I know)
Besides, in a language spoken by a nation that allows citizens to own a few millions individual firearms, I'm sure we could find more appropriate equivalents Regular smile

petit élève    вс, 16/09/2018 - 02:17

Rather "right *on* the spot", I think.
Other suggestions off the top of my head: "bullseye", "spot on", "dead on target".

OpalMoon    пн, 17/09/2018 - 00:02

I think you're right about all of the above, and "hit the jackpot as well".

Brat    вс, 16/09/2018 - 15:34

Well, hitting the bingo is a bit too complex, I feel, but there's no other option: it should rhyme with the end of the line, just like in the original. "Spot on/alone could probably go, but I really cannot see a way to arrange them neatly in a verse.
As for the conditional you've mentioned - it's put there in accordance with the Russian grammar: if there was a comma, not a dash - you would be right. The problem is, I couldn't find an authorised transcription of this song except for that published by Egor Letov -> http://grob-hroniki.org/texts/yanka/tolko_dozhdj.html
I could change the conditional into a zero-type one so that it looked like a statement but I'm not sure it would help much.

petit élève    вс, 16/09/2018 - 17:44

You lost me with your zero-type conditional, but I'm glad to see you back from the casino Teeth smile

sandring    вс, 16/09/2018 - 15:10

Brat, "asleep" is used only predicatively, i.e. after a verb. It should be The sleeping world. Yellow is an acknowledged colour for madness, shapka is like troika, you don't have to translate it. (It's the same even in Hungarian Regular smile )" How true it is if unrequited" - she speaks about love. And again you get carried away by the form at the expense of the meaning. You could have been admitted to that club Pierre mentioned with no entrance fee. Regular smile

Brat    вс, 16/09/2018 - 15:55
sandring wrote:

Brat, "asleep" is used only predicatively, i.e. after a verb.

Not always.

sandring wrote:

It should be The sleeping world.

I don't think it would match the meaning of "сонный страх". Sleepy fear was among my options but I chose not to use it because it would be perceived as "soporific", which is not true.

sandring wrote:

Yellow is an acknowledged colour for madness, shapka is like troika, you don't have to translate it. (It's the same even in Hungarian Regular smile )

In English shapka is what we call ushanka in Russian; it's too specific to be used here (a broad metaphor is implied, hinting to the "ветер в голове" idiom)

sandring wrote:

" How true it is if unrequited" - she speaks about love. And again you get carried away by the form at the expense of the meaning. You could have been admitted to that club Pierre mentioned with no entrance fee. Regular smile

Well, it's not about only love, but "unanswered" will work in any case because it's versatile.

petit élève    вс, 16/09/2018 - 17:51

I second Nadia on "unrequited". That would identify love immediately, so why not use it? Afraid to be too explicit or something?

Brat    пн, 17/09/2018 - 16:03
petit élève wrote:

That would identify love immediately, so why not use it?

That's the very reason I haven't used it. Regular smile Looks like that 'act of love in a huge cold bathhouse' has excited you a bit too much. Wink smile Not only love is implied there, though I understand the reason causing your thoughts to flow at this direction. A hint to "верная, но неразделённая любовь" could be seen there, no doubt. But it's not the main meaning, just a decoy. Wink smile

petit élève    пн, 17/09/2018 - 17:10

Mmm... I failed to locate anything else that would relate to reciprocity or the lack thereof. What might she be talking about, if not of a relationship going awry?

Brat    пн, 17/09/2018 - 18:18

Did you get this idea from the original text or it comes out from my translation?

petit élève    пн, 17/09/2018 - 18:30

It's hard to say, I discovered both at the same time.
It's just what sprang to my mind when I translated it into French and really had to focus on the meaning.

petit élève    пн, 17/09/2018 - 18:48

Well, likening a heartbreak to the end of the world has been done a few times already...

Brat    пн, 17/09/2018 - 19:30

Well, but it's not like Yanka. These two ones are about unrequited love -> http://grob-hroniki.org/texts/yanka/gryazj_moja_takaja.html
and the other one

Quote:

Вот сижу я такая баба

И думаю что не такая вовсе

Даже не думаю а стараюсь знать

В газету завёрнутый огурец в конце февраля

Парниковый, наверное

Да по башке мне фаллическим символом

Да опять не моё

Научили: ни украсть, ни покараулить

Это чувак один научил

А я смеялся и запомнил поэтому

А чувака жалко, он сейчас такой коричневый, мне сказали

И молчит – жрёт мепробамат

А я думал, что зелёный (я) – голова кружилась

А оказалось – ничего

Вот так и то не я умею

Зато ещё могу, а если бы я, то всё бы.

Да и так всё уже.

1989

petit élève    пн, 17/09/2018 - 19:41

She lost me with her cucumber story. I can see the jokes I'm missing happily fluttering well out of reach of my Russian.

Brat    вт, 18/09/2018 - 14:49

Maybe it's better to start from the very beginning and make it clear first what the rain means in the metaphor? Then it will go further almost automatically. Wink smile

petit élève    вт, 18/09/2018 - 15:22

No idea worth mentioning. I give my tongue to the cat, as we say in France.

Brat    ср, 19/09/2018 - 17:26

I'll explain this. Look, as it was stated in the excerpt I've posted above, the rain has a kind of duality. On one hand, it's necessary for plants to grow, it brings freshness and so on. On the other hand, when it rains for a week or a fortnight, problems start to reveal themselves, - such as dirt, or a flood maybe. But Marques decided to go without flood in his story, so we should not mention it further. It's also said in the study that the rain embodies both Life and Death. But how could it be so? The explanation lies in the field of existential philosophy. The rain represents the state of life when people are being permanently reminded of their mortality. Surely, people don't like rain too much, as well as they don't like to be reminded of their mortality. That's why they use umbrellas, build houses with roofs, and so on. But the next problem is dirt. When it's sunny, there's no dirt, because all the dust and other possible litters are dry, so this could be easily swept under the carpet Teeth smile But when it starts raining, the things go worse. People since that need gumboots and maybe some other items to keep their feet clean. Dirt symbolises human vice here.
Now you can easily understand what Letov meant under his "piercing rain", and it's the same with the stones that hit pates in Yanka's song. While clever people are sitting at home, under their roofs, the fool is wandering in the rain that proved to be a bit too hard to withstand... And in this song tears that were intended to form a kind of rain finally turned to be as heavy as stones.
Now I'd like to ask you to think a little about "душезаменитель". It has an "additional" meaning that's hard to decipher for the majority of native speakers but I believe your French will help you much in your study. Wink smile But frankly speaking, I can't understand how that could pass unseen, though it's not the main meaning.

Brat    ср, 19/09/2018 - 18:05

That weird "душезаменитель" could mean not only "заменитель души" but also "заменитель душа". That makes the line sound dually but not like double entendre. Let's see: in the first meaning the author says that people use substitutes for souls as the means of their salvation (so that the rain would not bother their souls). The second meaning tells us that the real salvation is in the rain which was substituted with bath showers used by people in their bathhouse, and those showers need to be re-substituted again with the rain.
So, a complex metaphor is represented here:
1. The rain symbolising the awareness of mortality (which is supposed to have a kind of purifying effect, being applied to people's souls)
2. Bath showers symbolising non-religious ideology (of any type, generally)
3. The bathhouse (introduced in the next line as a huge and cold one) as a building serving as a shelter protecting people from the rain, on one hand; and providing them with bath showers, on the other hand. Now you may easily guess what it symbolises. Wink smile

Brat    чт, 20/09/2018 - 18:17

Well, it's the state. Not the USSR in particular (though it's huge and cold), but generally it could be any of the so-called secular states with non-religious state ideology. As for the USSR, it was pictured in this song by A. Bashlachev using the similar metaphor of artificial rain, though much more expanded, while Yanka only touches it; and more precisely - this Bashlachev's song is about Leningrad city and the Soviet period of its history.
And then comes the wind as the first prophet of the storm (a hint to the hurricane in Macondo). And there stands a house where no sounds of rain or wind are heard. But the yellow world is growing larger and larger. Yellow colour in Yanka's poetry is the colour which warns of the upcoming Death, preceding the end of rain. ("В десяти шагах отсюда светофор мигал|Желтым светом две минуты на конец дождям|А в подземном переходе влево поворот|А в подземном коридоре гаснут фонари.")
And the eternal way then starts with the half-asleep fear...

petit élève    чт, 20/09/2018 - 18:27

Wow, that's what I call a comprehensive explanation. I'll take your word on all this symbolism, the cultural gap is too wide for me to cross. It's interesting though. I had never thought of rain that way, but the metaphor makes sense.

Brat    сб, 22/09/2018 - 18:50

Without this symbolism, I dare say, the majority of Yanka's songs would be completely unintelligible. This song is her second one, but the first "Печаль моя светла" doesn't count, actually. So the analysis should be started right from here. Especially since the Russian Rock culture is full of examples of such metaphors. And there's actually no 'cultural gap': "Очень просто тонет в море остров" is obviously reminding this story by H.C.Andersen about the two islands disappeared, one taken by the sea, the other - by the men. This story is well-known to almost all Soviet children, and having in mind that Holsteinborg castle in that story looks to be moved far away from the sea, it alludes to Marquez again telling how Jose Arcadio Buendia once found a ship landed several miles off the shore. And if we remember about 'unrequited love', we should remember this guy who finally found the answers for all of his questions in the depths of the sea. (The metaphor of the sea as a source of life and the eternal enigma to which a man strives, is also present in this song).
And now it comes to be obvious that "Очень верно, если безответно" has rather a philosophic sense in the context. Look, there's a well-known concept, namely that every question has the right answer within. But having been answered, it ceases to be a question, regardless of whether or not the answer was right. So it usually happens that questions are answered incorrectly and then it takes some time until somebody doubts and 'revives' the question. And surely an unanswered question, a 'ding an sich', is ever true. This could be said about an unanswered passion too. Because when answered, it could turn to be a false one, like this. And while unanswered, it's always true, like any question of the kind. Wink smile Like the belief in God could only exist while there's no factual evidence of His existence. Because otherwise it would be knowledge instead.
Look on how the Russian "верно" is connected with "vero", "vrai", "vérité" - and also with "вера": "Верно говоришь!" ("Я тебе верю!"). It's more of a belief than a knowledge... Given that "очень" looks weird in connection with "верно". A belief could be stronger of weaker, but a correctness having such a shift would imply some degree of approximation. Wink smile

petit élève    сб, 22/09/2018 - 20:14

Haha you really are a strange bird, Brat. I took great pleasure in reading this surprising short story of London's, but I still fail to see an obvious connection with this song. Still every post of yours is food for thought.

Brat    вс, 23/09/2018 - 18:57

 

petit élève wrote:

Haha you really are a strange bird, Brat.

Не успели в дождь попасть отставшие, оттого бывают птички разные (С)

petit élève wrote:

I took great pleasure in reading this surprising short story of London's, but I still fail to see an obvious connection with this song. Still every post of yours is food for thought.

That's because I meant: "If the song was about an unrequited love, this love would be just like that one described by Jack". Regular smile And yes, Yanka's songs can always give some food for thought. As for this song, it has 2 versions of lyrics but only one of them is now currently available in record. The very first record made in Omsk on 09/12/1987 has the same text as the latest one made in Kharkov on 23/06/1989, but the latter contains a phrase said after the song ended: "...по-старенькому, спасибо...". Also, the official site provides lyrics that are different from what is sung in the recorded versions, though they make the song better convey the main thought. There might have been another version somewhere in between 1987 and 1989 which lyrics are published on the official site. Since there's no record of it, I should edit the lyrics so that they correspond to the video that contains the first record. But first I'll make some research on this.

OpalMoon    пн, 17/09/2018 - 00:03

Ok, I've lived in the US all my life and I've never heard English speaking people use the word shapka. But it did show up when I searched for it, so I guess you learn something new every day...

Brat    пн, 17/09/2018 - 15:46

Shapka, mishka and matryoshka,
Lozhka, chashka, povaryoshka,
Putin, Lenin, Stalin - hey!
We learn Russian every day!

sandring    вс, 16/09/2018 - 15:59

Devil smile Brat, I'll give you ten bucks if you find an example from native literature where asleep is followed by a noun. Like "an asleep soldier".

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