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LT → engelska → Robert Frost → Never Again Would Birds' Song Be The Same → franska
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Never Again Would Birds' Song Be The Same

He would declare and could himself believe
That the birds there in all the garden round
From having heard the daylong voice of Eve
Had added to their own an oversound,
Her tone of meaning but without the words.
Admittedly an eloquence so soft
Could only have had an influence on birds
When call or laughter carried it aloft.
Be that as may be, she was in their song.
Moreover her voice upon their voices crossed
Had now persisted in the woods so long
That probably it never would be lost.
Never again would birds’ song be the same.
And to do that to birds was why she came.
 
Översättning

Plus jamais la chanson des oiseaux ne serait la même

Il affirmerait et pourrait lui-même croire
Que les oiseaux tout autour du jardin
En ayant écouté tout le jour la voix d' Ève
Avaient rajouté à leur chant,
Le sens du sien mais sans les mots.
Certes, une éloquence si douce
N'aurait pu influencer les oiseaux
Que quand un appel ou un rire la lançaient en l'air.
Quoi qu'il en soit, elle était dans leur chanson.
En outre sa voix croisée avec les leurs
S'était attardée dans les bois si longtemps
Qu'elle ne se perdrait probablement jamais.
Plus jamais la chanson des oiseaux ne serait la même.
Et c'est pour faire ça aux oiseaux qu'elle était venue.
 
Robert Frost: Topp 3
1.The Road Not Taken
2.Nothing Gold Can Stay
3.Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening
Idioms from "Never Again Would ..."
1.be that as it may
Kommentarer
silencedsilenced    Tis, 07/07/2020 - 22:15

That's subtle English, quite hard to translate.
Here is my tweaked version. If you have questions, fire away.

Il affirmerait1 et pourrait lui-même croire
Que les oiseaux2 tout autour du jardin
ayant écouté tout le jour3 la voix d'Ève
Avaient rajouté4 à leur chant,
le sens du sien5, quoique sans mots6.
Certes, une éloquence si douce
n'aurait pu influencer7 les oiseaux
que8 quand un appel ou un rire la lançaient dans l'air9.
Quoi qu'il en soit, elle était dans leur chanson.
En outre, sa voix croisée avec les leurs10
S'était attardée11 dans les bois si longtemps
Qu'elle ne se perdrait probablement jamais.
Plus jamais la chanson des oiseaux ne12 serait la même.
Et c'est pour 13 leur faire ce don qu'elle était14 venue.

  • 1. "déclarer" is ok, but more something you'd say in a court house. "affirmer" sounds more natural to me
  • 2. "là" is unnecessary
  • 3. diurne just mean "diurnal", you'd use it to talk about the behaviour of an animal, for instance
  • 4. "excès" is pejorative (too much), and "rajouter" render the idea very well
  • 5. "de son chant", avoiding repetition
  • 6. same as "mais sans les mots", I just like "quoique/bien que" :)
  • 7. past conditional. Usually it's better to use a shorter verb when one is available (influencer / avoir de l'influence sur)
  • 8. end of the "ne...que" rendering "could only"
  • 9. "lancer" might not be the best choice. "porter dans l'air" could work too
  • 10. French hates repetitions, unless they are there for a specific reason (rhythm, symmetry...)
  • 11. "maintenant" is not needed, the precise French tenses carry enough meaning on their own. "s'attarder" (linger) is nicer than "persister" (it carries an idea of obstinacy that sounds a bit unpleasant here)
  • 12. a variant of "ne...plus", and clearly this requires literary French :)
  • 13. "c'est pour faire ça aux oiseaux" is technically correct, but it sounds a bit like she processed the birds or even mistreated them! I think an adaptation is needed to preserve the intent of the original (to offer them that gift)
  • 14. that's past in the past (1) she came (2) the song survived
Emika AllensEmika Allens
   Tor, 16/07/2020 - 13:34

So I corrected everything, I just have some objections regarding the last line.
About the tense, I think past simple equals passé composé in French, plus it kinda preserves the flow better.
Besides that, the English line gives no indication as to if what she did to the birds what bad or not (although I tend to agree with you on the interpretation of that one), so it's again a question of flow (I figured it's better to stay true to the original in that case). What do you think?

silencedsilenced    Tor, 16/07/2020 - 13:52

"ton de sens" sounds pretty unusual.

"faire ça aux oiseaux" somewhat reads like "to inflict that upon the birds" :)
I'd say "faire quelque chose à quelqu'un" usually means harming someone, or imposing something against someone's will. At least that's how it feels to me, I could not really find an authoritative explanation for this, what with the gazillion meanings of "faire", but look for instance at wordreference. "faire quelque chose" is explained as "cause trouble".

"qu'elle est venue" is possible, but I still prefer "qu'elle était venue". It keeps the continuity of the narration, while "est venue" sort of jerks it back into the past. It could be used as a manner of emphasis, but I don't see it in the original.

Emika AllensEmika Allens
   Tor, 16/07/2020 - 14:12

Oh, I forgot to change the "ton de sens" thing.  :)
Plus-que-parfait sounds a bit weird to me in terms of flow, but it does help keep the narration intact, so I'll fix it.
I get the meaning of "faire qqch à qqn", but still, the English line is "to do that to birds", which can also imply "do harm" (as opposed to "offer/give them a gift"). What I mean is that the original can also be subject to different interpretations, so maybe we should preserve the ambiguity of the line instead.

silencedsilenced    Tor, 16/07/2020 - 14:22

I thought it sounded more neutral in English, but of course I trust your judgement on that. It's fine to leave it that way then.

Emika AllensEmika Allens
   Tor, 16/07/2020 - 14:35

It does sound neutral, that's why it's ambivalent (but we're just splitting hairs here).  :)
Btw, I wanted your native-French-speaker opinion on something. Do you think it's worth the trouble translating a French slang song, such as this one, for instance?

silencedsilenced    Tor, 16/07/2020 - 14:54

Well, if you plan a career as a social worker (or a copper!) in the merry suburbs of our great cities, the vocabulary can come in handy. That's how I learned to decipher the lingo. For the rest, it's about as meaningful as what comes out of the mouth of someone who just hit his thumb while hammering at nails.

Zarina01Zarina01    Tor, 16/07/2020 - 14:56

Why would anyone want to be a social worker? That sounds like a nightmare

silencedsilenced    Tor, 16/07/2020 - 15:03

It is, from my personal experience. But a remarkably efficient eye-opener too. Plus it gets you points in yoofspeak.

Zarina01Zarina01    Tor, 16/07/2020 - 15:05

Wait, is that what your profession is in real life?

silencedsilenced    Tor, 16/07/2020 - 15:35

was.

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