L'infini
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| 5 teşekkür aldı | ||
annabellanna tarafından 2015-08-12 tarihinde eklendi.annabellanna tarafından en son 2018-12-11 tarihinde düzenlendi| 1. | L'infinito |
| 2. | A Silvia |
| 3. | Canto notturno di un pastore errante dell'Asia |
Jadis
Pzr, 02/12/2018 - 17:35
I think that "le regard" is all right here, but I also think that "che" should be translated as "qui", not "que", because the hedge prevents the eye from seeing as far as the horizon. Also better to say "exclut le regard" than "le regard exclut", because it's ambiguous in French, it looks like "the regard" would be the subject. There are other details to improve, I'll try to explain them to you later. Thanks for that new discovery !
annabellanna
Pzt, 03/12/2018 - 18:08
I apologize for my late, but I'm quite busy in these days. I'll revise all as soon as possible. Many thanks!
annabellanna
Salı, 04/12/2018 - 16:21
As you see, I changed a lot of things. I followed your suggestions, but each change leads to a different framework, so I had to revise the whole translation, so you have to check it again(if you want...)
Jadis
Salı, 04/12/2018 - 16:43
Annabellanna, I'm afraid you're re-doing a job that has already been done : this version seems quite right to me, and it even explains the mysterious "ove per poco / Il cor non si spaura." I hadn't seen it earlier, sorry ! But anyway, thanks for your efforts... and for publishing this beautiful poem.
annabellanna
Perş, 06/12/2018 - 16:35
Translating is for me both an exercise and a fun. It's not useless, even if there always will be somebody who can do it better.
About the line"ove per poco il cor non si spaura", what you call "explanation", actually is an "interpretation"(as also the mine one is).
I think this line be intentionally polisemic, and nobody could say "I know the very meaning of it", for the reason that a very meaning doesn't exist. Or, if exists, we should ask Leopardi some informations more: his words don't give us any assurance about his real intention.
annabellanna
Perş, 06/12/2018 - 13:55
(I have just tried to modify my post, it doesn't run from my PC.) Only I want to add that I revised a translation of mine that I made before that the Guernes's one appeared. I often do it, and don't care whether other translations have been added meanwhile. It concerns my job and no one else.
Jadis
Cmt, 08/12/2018 - 15:51
Hello Anna, sorry for the delay. Still some small problems with French spelling :
chere > chère
au -delà > au-delà
jusq’à ce que > jusqu'à ce que
cette voix: > cette voix : (interspace before : ;)
l'eternel > l'éternel
After that, I'll have a closer look at the expression, but I guess that basically, it soesn't sound bad...
annabellanna
Cmt, 08/12/2018 - 16:12
Tu as des bonnes lunettes! ;)
(in Italian the ":" don't want any space before...)
annabellanna
Pzt, 10/12/2018 - 09:13
???
Jadis
Cmt, 08/12/2018 - 16:51
The meaning is slowly emerging, although I still have some problems, for ex in : "d'espace illimité au-delà d’elle, des surhumains / Silences" : why "d'" and "des" ?
Also the inversion sounds a little strange in French in "une très profonde quiétude / Dans mon esprit je feins" : perhaps "en mon esprit je feins / Une très profonde quiétude" ?
And I can't quite understand the syntax of "E viva". Perhaps "et celle d'à présent, / Vivante"' (leaving aside the "et" before "Vivante" in that case).
For the "ove" interpreted as "jusqu'à ce que", I don't feel I'm competent enough...
I also think that "en cette mer" would be a little more elegant that "dans cette mer", even if it is quite correct.
annabellanna
Pzt, 10/12/2018 - 11:53
1)d' espace/ des silences : I thought that a partitive(de, des) could fit. Now I'm looking several "official" translations, and almost all of them use the partitive. Maybe "des espaces" is better? I will turn it to plural.
2)"une très profonde quiétude / Dans mon esprit je feins": also in italian it sounds a little odd, or, at least, it is a syntactic construction that is acceptable (and quite common) only in poetry..I guess it's an hiperbate, and I thought it was used in poetry also in French. But if it not only "sounds strange", but it's actually wrong and inacceptable, I will change it.
(The problem is that, when you rearrange a Leopardi's poem taking off from it all anastrophes, hyperbatus, enjambements,and rhetorical figures alike, you have killed it.)
3)Why don't understand the syntax of "e viva"? The phrase means: la saison est présente, et vivante, et j'ecoute son son."Anyway, all translations use "vive" or "vif"(when they use "temps" instead of "saison"), and not "vivent". I think I will change it. Maybe it tells better both the two meanings: "alive" and "lively".
4)"ove"(=where) it's an imaginary place, where your imagination can drive you. I wanted to suggest this idea. But if literal "où" is better, I will change it. I have found also "où peu s’en faut". I like it.
5) "En" vs "dans": In the texts that I'm reading, four translation say "dans", and two "en".
Many thanks!
Jadis
Pzt, 10/12/2018 - 14:11
I found a translation written in very good (and very beautiful) French here . Of course it's prose, but very poetical prose. Sometimes it may diverge a little from the original, for example the translator says "en mon esprit je recrée" and, true, it seems difficult to use the verb "feindre" (je feins) here. "Recréer" means here "to re-create, to rebuild (in imagination)". I also noticed "et de la présente, si vive, et de son timbre". "Si vive" is quite understandable, while "et vive" left me in perplexity ; and "timbre" can be used instead of "son, sonorité, résonance" : we speak about "le timbre d'un instrument" (de musique).
Also please note "peu s’en faut que le coeur ne s’épouvante" (ou : ne s'effraie"). The particle "ne" is not mandatory, but the style is better.
"Mi sovvien(e)" has been translated by "je me souviens", but as I found, it could be "me [re]vient" (à l'esprit)" or yet another expression.
And the translator uses the verb "naufrager', I checked and it can indeed be used, although a little old-fashioned.
Anyway that translation is perhaps not completely faithful, but the French text is of excellent quality : even if it still sounds a little esoteric, nothing hurts or shocks the reader, it flows like water or like the wind...
Jadis
Pzt, 10/12/2018 - 16:39
P.S. The translator used the verb "s'abîmer" (for "s'annegare"), which, among others, means : "Tomber, s'écrouler au fond d'une cavité, d'un creux de l'espace terrestre, marin, cosmique, de manière à disparaître momentanément ou définitivement." The TLFI gives an example from Prosper Mérimée : "Le vaisseau s'inclina avec tant de violence, qu'on eût dit qu'il allait s'abîmer" (The ship bowed so hard that it looked like she was going to sink).
annabellanna
Salı, 11/12/2018 - 07:51
I have read the translation. Here there is a postpositon of the verb"je recrée": then it's allowed in French too!
The verb "fingere"(io nel pensier mi fingo)in this context is quite inusual also in Italian. Leopardi liked to use desuete and peculiar words: I will not change it, I think he choose it intentionally. I agree about the use of "ne"(in Italian is the same...)
S'abîmer sounds good, I agree. But I'm not totally agree with "si vive":Leopardi doesn't say "cette saison est particulierement vive", that is the meaning suggested by "si". He only says "la saison est actuel, est celle-ci dans laquelle nous vivons maintenant", without add anything else.
I'm going to make the changes. I hope they will be the last ones...at least for a little while.
Thanks for all, your suggestion have really been very useful!
I try to get my translation closer to the original text, but I'm not sure that "regard " could mean also something like"scenary", "view".
Can someone help me to find the most suitable word?
Thanks!