Reklam

Progulki po vode (Прогулки по воде) (İngilizce çevirisi)

  • Şarkıcı: Nautilus Pompilius (Наутилус Помпилиус)
  • Şarkı: Progulki po vode (Прогулки по воде) 10 çeviri
  • Çeviriler: Çekçe, Fransızca #1, #2, İbranice, İngilizce #1, #2, #3, İspanyolca, Sırpça, Türkçe
İngilizce çevirisiİngilizce (metered, poetic, rhyming, singable)
A A

Walks on the Sea

Versiyonlar: #1#2#3
The apostle Andrew was fishing the pier,
And the Savior was walking the sea.
Just as Andrew was catching small fish with his net,
So, the Savior was fishing the dead.
 
Andrew’s voice was sincere: ”I’m leaving this pier!
If you don't share this secret with me!"
But the Savior replied: "My dear Andrew, I swear
There was never a secret concealed."
 
REFRAIN:
"Look, you see on the hill –
There is a towering cross,
A dozen of soldiers in black;
You should try to hang on.
And when you suffer the loss –
You are free to come back,
To walk on the sea,
To walk on the sea,
To walk on the sea with me."
 
"But my mentor! The helmets are shining with horns;
A black raven is circling the cross.
Would you tell me today? Spare your fool from the scorn,
Crucifixion could wait or be tossed."
 
And the Savior got speechless and stomped with his heel
The water mirror beneath:
"You indeed are a fool!" Crying Andrew retreats,
While carrying his catch from the pier.
 
REFRAIN x2
 
Teşekkürler!
thanked 8 times
© Schnurrbrat
Critique is always welcomed (proof-read or not, negative too).
SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat tarafından Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:01 tarihinde eklendi
SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat tarafından en son Cum, 24/01/2020 - 00:49 tarihinde düzenlendi
Yazarın yorumları:

IMHO, this song's idea concatenates this Jesus' saying [Matthew 4:19: “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.”] with the miracle of walking on the water [Matthew 14:22-34], which happened on the Sea of Galilee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Galilee

This song was one of the most popular on the Russian rock scene in the 1990s. Written by late Ilya Kormiltsev, who would be 60 today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Kormiltsev

Progulki po vode (Прогулки по воде)

Yorumlar
Pinchus ZelenogorskyPinchus Zelenogorsky    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:10

>fishing the pier
Так можно, без предлога?
А reel это что-то типа спининга?

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:21
Pinchus Zelenogorsky написал(а):

>fishing the pier Так можно, без предлога?

Погуглите "fishing the pier" в кавычках только

Pinchus Zelenogorsky написал(а):

А reel это что-то типа спининга?

катушка

Pinchus ZelenogorskyPinchus Zelenogorsky    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:45

То есть "fishing the pier" - ловля рыбы с причала. Но тогда как Андрей был "ловлей рыбы"? И какой катушкой он пользовался?

Pinchus ZelenogorskyPinchus Zelenogorsky    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:56

Совершенно серьезно. Я заинтригован техникой ловли на катушку.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:08

У нас это называется "на кольцо" - старейший способ ловли рыбы, особенно с причала [и единственный который я лично освоил на 5]. Леска лежит на пальце, удочки нет совсем.
Спиннингов тогда не было однако.

Pinchus ZelenogorskyPinchus Zelenogorsky    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:12

>Спиннингов тогда не было однако
Вот я и спросил. Ладно, будем считать, что Андрей пошел с катушкой лески. А это добро было всегда.

vevvevvevvev    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 02:27

Лески тогда тоже не было Regular smile
Скорее всего он сеть закидывал с причала.

vevvevvevvev    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 05:43

Андрей был профессиональным рыбаком. Где Вы видели профессиональных рыбаков с удочками? Абсурд...

vevvevvevvev    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 11:10

Профи рыбачат сетями. В крайнем случае - динамитом Regular smile

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 06:14

То есть главное, чтобы пескарей ловили с причала неводом, а не удочками, которых в то время не было по Вашем словам. Вас не смущает, что и пескари там не водятся? И что госпел не про Св. Андрея и не про причал, а про прогулки Св. Петра по воде в середине "моря"? Св. Андрей вообще не причем здесь, это Кормильцев придумал. И хорошо придумал.

vevvevvevvev    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 06:17

Я писал, что не было лески (лавсан, капрон, нейлон и т.п.). Не надо путать круглое с кислым Regular smile И гулял там, вроде, не Св.Петр, а Спаситель. А апостол Андрей есть только один в истории, тут все однозначно.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 06:21

28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee upon the waters. 29 And he said, Come. And Peter went down from the boat, and walked upon the waters to come to Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried out, saying, Lord, save me. 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and took hold of him, and saith unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? 32 And when they were gone up into the boat, the wind ceased. 33 And they that were in the boat worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. 34 And when they had crossed over, they came to the land, unto Gennesaret.

— Matthew 14:22–34 American Standard Version

vevvevvevvev    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 06:32

Причем тут это? В песне по воде ходил Спаситель, а не Петр.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 06:41

При том, что если Вы настаиваете на неводе при ловле с причала в эту историческую эпоху, то нужно понимать, что это всего лишь восприятие госпела Кормильцевым, адаптированное для песни и рифм и пр. и совершенно неточное, как я Вам указал выше.

vevvevvevvev    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 06:47

В таком случае "катушка" это уже Ваше восприятие. Ну и разумеется, я ни на чем не настаивал и не настаиваю Regular smile

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 06:55

>В таком случае "катушка" это уже Ваше восприятие >
Without a doubt. In the draft version I had "tread", "line", rod", "rods" and ended up with the "reel".

BratBrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 09:34

А на самом деле всё было так:

Regular smile

BratBrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 07:26
Pinchus Zelenogorsky schrieb:

То есть "fishing the pier" - ловля рыбы с причала. Но тогда как Андрей был "ловлей рыбы"? И какой катушкой он пользовался?

Катушку ему Спаситель подогнал. Андрюха причапал на причал и только там осознал, что снасть дома забыл.
- Выручай, - говорит, - друг мой Изя! - А тот катушку ему из кармана: на, дарю!
- О, Спаситель мой! - воскликнул Андрюха, достал свою стереорегулярную леску, крючки фирменные титановые, насадил мотыля из баночки из-под монпасье, и рыбалка началась.

vevvevvevvev    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 08:09

Тока всё наоборот - после встречи рыбалка закончилась Regular smile

Waran4ikWaran4ik    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:27

>>> Так можно, без предлога?
Так предлога не стоит и... walking the sea

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:38

He meant fishing THE pier.
Fishing pier is used as in he stood there.
Fishing the pier is used saying fishing from the pier.

Waran4ikWaran4ik    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:48

Так пропущен предлог on - walking on the sea

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:28

How come it comes so easy for you... I can't for several days find my way and you said you are busy - are you free now?... Lol
Well done

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:32
BlackSea4ever schrieb:

How come it comes so easy for you...

at least an hour per line Wink smile

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:51

When in doubt - google it out!
Обявляем гугл-поиск спорного выражения, используя кавычки, чтобы сохранить порядок слов
"fishing the pier" or "fishing the creek" etc
"walk the sea" наверно тяжело найти по понятным причинам, но "walk the land" - не проблема.
Так что нет и не должно быть никакого предлога, это разные фразы в английском, разный смысл.

Waran4ikWaran4ik    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:57

Так в другом месте вы переводите - To walk on the sea.
walk on land - без артикля

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:12

walk on the land & walk the land = два РАЗНЫХ выражения.
также Fishing the pier & Fishing ON the pier = два РАЗНЫХ выражения, смысл у них РАЗНЫЙ.
Ну ничего, придет. Но я думаю трех моих комментариев и несколько других должно быть достаточно.

Waran4ikWaran4ik    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:24

А как вы их точно переведете?

Pinchus ZelenogorskyPinchus Zelenogorsky    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:04

42, погуглили. С "fishing the pier" все в порядке, спасибо.

Waran4ikWaran4ik    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 22:52

И разве Apostle не с большой буквы нужно писать?

Waran4ikWaran4ik    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:00

Ясно, левый апостол ))

St. SolSt. Sol    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:14

"If you [won't] share" - If you don't share
"When you [will] feel loss" - delete/replace "will"

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:28

1) I had it "wouldn't share" frankly, but after reading it out loud few times i changed it to what it is now.
I think i should change it back to "wouldn't".
2) "when you will" - hmm o.k. It creates a question, right?

St. SolSt. Sol    Çarş, 25/09/2019 - 23:30

In both cases hypothetical future (if/when) is expressed with simple present (or present continuous: if you are going to...)

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 01:40

Thanks. I've corrected to what you've suggested.

St. SolSt. Sol    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 02:20

And when you feel the loss: will preserve the meter.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 02:40

It is also grammatically correct too. I'm not sure about the meter though. >To me these lines sound better: And when you suffer/welcome the loss. =^=^==^
I hopefully will work more on it tomorrow or in the nearest future.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 07:46

@vevvev The rare footage of Andrew walking on the water.
I temporary changed this "reel". I meant that the line or thread is stored on/around the piece of wood and is used without the rod. I used such primitive setup myself. On the wharf btw. Anyway, "reel" probably means more than that - a device, able to rotate around the central axis, which is modern obviously.

Waran4ikWaran4ik    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 09:54

Так walking on the water или walking the water?  Wink smile

BratBrat    Perş, 26/09/2019 - 10:33

В текущем виде означает ''проходил море пешком'' [вдоль и поперёк].

Расстреляли рассветами память, бредущую в поле
Исходили всю воду, а берега до сих пор нет
Поменяли, не глядя, на правду свободную волю
Да пожгли фонари, не познав, где кончается свет.

(С) Ю.Шевчук, Расстреляли рассветами

В принципе, нормальный вариант перевода.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Cum, 27/09/2019 - 16:34

Илье Кормильцеву было бы 60.

silencedsilenced    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 06:01

Very funny song. Too bad the French version never got fixed despite my remarks years ago...
Maybe [@Jadis] could grace us with a new one?

I realize making English rhyme is about as easy as playing bridge with an opinionated duck, and preserving the stress pattern like trying to make the volatile sing the Marseillaise, but you still have to bring the meaning across.
On the other hand, you're piling requirements a bit high.
Maybe if you relaxed your rules just a bit, it would restore the balance between form and substance?

suffer the loss -> I can't link that to надоесть.
"suffer a loss" is about (painfully) losing something or someone. What could Andrew lose while hanging on the cross?
Except for "across", there is not much that could rhyme with "cross".
I suppose moving this pesky word somewhere in the middle of the line is not an option?
"be at a loss" will probably sound odd without a "for something" to follow, but still better than this "suffer the loss"

small fish -> what about "minnow"? That seems like the perfect word to use there.

Fetching dead -> "dead people" would be "the dead" ("the dreary regions of the dead, where all things are forgot"). "dead" alone rather sounds like an adjective (or an adverb here).
I don't know if "souls" would fit in the meter, but the word would make more sense

Fetching -> no irony meant, but that makes me think of a dog fetching a bone.
IMO "fishing" would be better and, I suppose, preserve the stress pattern.
The song is funny, so the idea of Jesus fishing souls seems OK to me.

wait or be tossed -> again this damned cross...
"tossing" a crucifixion is really stretching the meaning of the verb (a lenient interpretation of meaning 1.e in the Merriam-Webster).

JadisJadis    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 06:59
silenced schrieb:

Maybe [@Jadis] could grace us with a new one?

(But where do they fetch such songs ?)
OK, I'll have a look when I have a little time...

silencedsilenced    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 09:02

Elizabeth's version would be quite OK if only she fixed the 2 lines she got wrong.

BlackSea4everBlackSea4ever    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 13:45
silenced schrieb:

Elizabeth's version would be quite OK if only she fixed the 2 lines she got wrong.

Was this translation made by her?

BratBrat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 06:28

Changing cross to rood will save the nerves.
There's standing the rood.... Get hung on it... And when you're out the mood (i.e. you don't feel like continue hanging) then come back...
Also, for good instead of tossed will sound well, I think.

silencedsilenced    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 06:45

Mmm... I don't know what a native would think of that.
Sounds a bit stretched to me: churches were still to be built when Jesus walked on water Regular smile
But that would be quite convenient for the rhyme.

There might be a way to work around the bloody cross. Name it once and then use "up there" or something?

BratBrat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 06:49
silenced schrieb:

There might be a way to work around the bloody cross. Name it once and then use "up there" or something?

Kinda playin' a toss-the-cross game?

silencedsilenced    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 08:10

Hahaha. Now seriously, I know playing the back seat driver is easy.
I don't know how you even manage to whip English into submission. Piling such a constrained syntax and barren phonetics on top of Russian tyrannical poetic rules is like fighting a bear blindfolded with one hand tied behind your back.

I hate to be an hypocrite, so I can't really say it's my cup of tea.
It's a formal achievement for sure, and I admire the work that goes into it.
But you have to read Russian to appreciate it. And lookup a few English words, more often than not.

silencedsilenced    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 15:43

I mean the rigid stress pattern in addition to meter and rhymes. I hope you didn't take offence. That was just a cheeky way of saying. I love your poetry, or rather the little I know of it.

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Çarş, 02/10/2019 - 02:15

Thank you for your input [ @silenced ] I appreciate it.

Maybe if you relaxed your rules just a bit, it would restore the balance between form and substance?
Artists are often saying that someone should stand next to them with a mallet and smack them at the head so they would not over do it.
I did dozens of versions, starting with no rhymes. I'm usually trying to get meter right and I don't care about rhyming. If i see some rhymes, I'm using them. If my translation becomes more and more rhymed, I start working to get it in the R-form.

suffer the loss -> I can't link that to надоесть. What could Andrew lose while hanging on the cross?
It is not the same obviously. But to me it is not out of the context of the song. People lose their lives on the cross.

small fish -> what about "minnow"? That seems like the perfect word to use there.
Yes, it is possible and most reasonable since it is mostly a generic term for this tax.family of fish. I'm not excited from my choice and the line in general.  I read "Fishing in Israel" and looked up the list of fish sp. on this lake, had few options, but decided not to use something specific. I'm not satisfied with this line, but I need a break from going over and over the same lines.

Fetching dead -> "dead people"
You right. In one of my last revisions I changed this line's word order to what you see now. Initially I had "While the Savior was fetching the dead".
I don't like "fetch" either. Any suggestions? I don't want to Raise the Dead, in order not to mix the miracles. IMHO this song is about this bumper sticker with a FISH sign (fishermen of men or something), but it should be Peter instead of Andrew. 

"tossing" a crucifixion is really stretching the meaning of the verb 
I'm using crucifixion without an article, implying that it is a method of execution, not an object (a cross where this execution is performed).

Imho, it is one of the translations, where amount of work put into will not produce any gain rhyme-wise.
But i'm not done yet and I'm not giving up, so any help is welcomed
:{

silencedsilenced    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 16:44

That's a relief. I thought I might have been a bit harsh, playing the back seat driver.
Obviously a considerable amount of work went into this, and it deserves respect.

What prevents you from using "fishing" instead of "fetching" both times? The Russian uses one single verb for both anyway.

Apparently "cross" is an especially barren word. I've been trying to find a convincing substitute. Maybe simply chuck the cross out the window and use "crucify" when needed?
(See the mound/hill/whatever over there/yonder/whatever, with a dozen soldiers around ? Go and get crucified there, then come back when you've had enough... )
Getting rid of the cross (crows are circling the mound/hill/whatever) would also solve your "tossing" problems.
What do you think?

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 19:35
silenced schrieb:

What prevents you from using "fishing" instead of "fetching" both times?

Lol, i simply didn't think of this.
I could use fishing in L1 and L4, but not three times in one staza. I will think of something. Fetch will be retired for sure. I'm afraid i will have to re-do the word order in L4 and hence the whole rhyming pattern there. It was tricky. BTW, there is an inner rhyme in the original with "Andrey/peskarey", but it is too much for me.

Thanks for trying to help, but imho, the cross on the hill has to stay. It is a very important symbol there.
and i personally fine with "suffer the loss" - it is a deviation from the original, but imho it is not outrageously wrong there.
I will get back to it for sure, but I can't think clearly now, I'm dumb from the common cold.
And regarding c&c - yours and others are always welcome, as long as the intention is to improve or to point out the flaws.
I'd be very grateful even if you or any other proof-reader will just list all mistakes without soft talking them Regular smile

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 16:27

Sorry, 42, for the intervention. I just cannot hold myself
Вы все там много понаписали, но вот объясните мне what the heck is
The apostle Andrew was fishing the pier,

He is out of small fishes and needs to hook up the entire pier?

Перечитывая старые записи, PZ начал весь базар с этого. Снимаю шляпу перед любимыми кабанами 🥰

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 16:30

I'm on the run, please re-read my explanation for mysticandrew.
If your comment is about a missing preposition, watch on YT :
Fishing the Cape Cod Canal or Fishing a Tropical Island

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 20:22

Ну раз пошла такая пьянка, так хотя бы озаглавьте свой pier, ну и имя ему какое-то дайте

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 20:37

Маша, я боюсь что Вы пошли по следу pz & mystic в непонимании этой фразы. Я уже прокомментировал 10 раз про соль этого выражения в английском. Послушайте английскую речь в видео про Cape cod. Там такой оборот используется несколько раз в первую минуту или две. Пирс здесь не должен быть собственным именем. Допустимы выражения fish the creek fish the coast. Example: I'm good in fishing rivers and lakes but I have no clue how to fish the coast. Pz вот предложил что Andrew was fishing должно переводится как Андрей был ловлей рыбы. Сказал бы хоть Рыбалкой. Знал я одного такого, Андрей Рыбалка. Так что я несколько подустал объяснять это выражение, но для Вас ничего не жалко, даже русских буковок.

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzr, 29/09/2019 - 23:21

42, ну я ж не спорю, а прошу озаглавить как имя собственное, ну, типа «fishing Our Pier” за неимением лучшего
Всё, больше не буду вас утомлять, удите, что хотите, хоть Кремлёвскую Башню

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 00:25

May I ask you why you insist on a proper noun there?
It is a simple pier, wharf, dock, you-name-it. Why should I invent something that is not in the original?

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 00:00

Pierre - не pier, на удочку не цепляется

silencedsilenced    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 00:25

Is this about "fishing the pier"? I totally agree with 42. "fishing a location" means "fishing in that location". It basically works like "fishing at the pier" here. We could ask Sarah Rose just to be on the safe side, but I'm confident it works.

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 00:32

Не, мы только Гавину поверим Wink smile
I am not arguing, as I said before

SchnurrbratSchnurrbrat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 00:42

Thanks for backing me up, but if we call Sarah, she will find 30 errors in every line, lol. Thanks but no thanks Regular smile not yet
There are two natives using this line repeatedly in the video link i've posted. And I wasn't able to listen to it, it was done just based on the title.

silencedsilenced    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 00:55

0:18 "One of the questions we get all the time from people is, what do I need to go fish the Cape Cod canal?"
0:28 "What are the kind of, the basics [equipments] that people will need when starting fishing the canal?"

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:05

Вот он - русский дух! We don’t care about enemies’ grammar or how they call it? Culture?
We make mistakes (I am talking about myself) и гордимся ими, потому кто ещё рискнёт ими гордится?

Всё, в очередной раз смываюсь, но признаюсь, чем-то вы притягиваете, 42 🤔
А Франция всегда опережает 🇺🇸

silencedsilenced    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:08

What have you been drinking tonight, Maria? Too much Picon bière maybe?

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:16

No, I cannot find Picon in the US. Otherwise, I would mix it in my tea, milk and kombucha

BratBrat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:29

Средство для отращивания бороды.

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:36

Чайный гриб - это знаете?

Pinchus ZelenogorskyPinchus Zelenogorsky    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:42

Это такая плесень в трехлитровых банках? Да, у нас жил одно время. Загадочная вещь, в детстве он меня пугал. До сих пор не знаю, что это такое.

BratBrat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:49
Pinchus Zelenogorsky schrieb:

в детстве он меня пугал

Напугаешься тут, когда борода вдруг ниже колен отрастёт...

IgeethecatIgeethecat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 01:50

Очень вкусная штука, если правильно запечатать

dandeliondandelion    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 16:04
Pinchus Zelenogorsky написал(а):

Это такая плесень в трехлитровых банках? Да, у нас жил одно время. Загадочная вещь, в детстве он меня пугал. До сих пор не знаю, что это такое.

http://www.rusf.ru/loginov/books/story09.htm#5

JadisJadis    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 06:49

I read on Wikipedia that kombucha helps against baldness...

BratBrat    Pzt, 30/09/2019 - 09:13

Да-да, и борода лучше растёт. Wink smile

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