Broken heart
| 1. | Spanish Hits - Best Spanish Songs of All Time (Popkultur) |
| 2. | Torre de Babel [Trilha Sonora da Novela] |
| 1. | Corazón partío |
| 2. | Y, ¿si fuera ella? |
| 3. | Te lo agradezco, pero no |
| 1. | After a storm comes a calm |
| 2. | No hay dos sin tres |
MissAtomicLau
Sun, 04/04/2021 - 03:00
Also, the author has inserted this comment in the translation (January is very, very cold in Madrid, where Alejandro is from) and that should be a footnote. Otherwise, it's distracting for the reader.
Aquiles Castro Parejo
Thu, 31/12/2020 - 03:19
TL takes too many liberties.
Aquiles Castro Parejo
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 02:20
All right, let's see:
1. "And what I know?" - And, what do I know?
2. "I know it, out of heart, out of mind* out of a heart that lies to you, my love." - I already know that a heart that doesn't see is a heart that doesn't feel, or a heart that lies to you, my love.
3. "¿What happened to our hope and happiness of being together?" - What happened to illusion and the beauty of living?
4. On the chorus, OP refers to a "her", even though Sanz is clamoring for a non-specific someone. There is no such thing as "her" in the chorus, nor there's any reason for it to be there.
5. " but I know that after you it won't come anything." - But I know that, after you, after you there's nothing.
There's also no explanation for the idioms or Sanz's pronunciation of certain words like "herío" or "partío", even though there's a customary idiomatic reason for those. The expression that he changed to "out of sight, out of mind" doesn't apply contextually to the song, and even if it did, it was botched by the presence of the following stanza in the song mentioning a "heart", since "out of sight, out of mind" doesn't include a "heart".
Those are the liberties and mistakes that OP made.
For a translation that gathered quite a few thanks.
This translation was submitted in 2008, while the second one (more accurate, detailed, and explanatory), was submitted in 2019. That's 11 years of a single bad English translation for this song on this site. This translation was subpar and superficial, and my vote stands.
Dr_Igor
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 05:19
All right, let's see. Not sure how to address you because you didn't state your name. If you think that my goal was to sway your vote you didn't get it. As I stated to Juan, in my book, anybody who throws a one-star review to a translation that may be not perfect., may be even pretty bad but not GT and not totally illiterate, and when the translator is not in a position to respond, that reviewer has serious problems. And when the reviewer has thanks to translations ratio of less than 0.25 and the translation that he/she puts down has 200 thanks then I have pretty valid suspicions/concerns about his/her motivation. I've seen bad translations to English and to Russian, but it never even crossed my mind to show off by posting a one-star review. I've talked in similar situations to reviewers who posted one-star reviews and some of them came back to their senses and pulled their reviews. I don't expect you to do that so you can keep your vote if this is what makes you happy.
Aquiles Castro Parejo
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 10:34
Considering you're defending this translation with everything you have in spite of being told otherwise shows that you're the one with the bias. You're attacking my motives instead of stating what is good about this subpar translation, in spite of being told otherwise not only by me, but by multiple people.
What I stated is that it spent more than a decade being the ONLY English translation, all with a misleading comment that gave it unwarranted validity as to its quality. One that it didn't deserve back then, and one that it doesn't deserve right now.
I have no horse in this race to back. I literally know no one in this site, but if quality of translation is to be upheld, then standards have to be higher than what you're arguing. I saw a bad translation and cast my vote, as it is my right to do.
I'm not going to engage with you any further, so you don't have to bother as to address me.
Fool Emeritus
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 11:56
Disagree. English wording and syntax is poor, and it fails to account for some idioms, but the overall sense is conveyed, and it doesn't mach with GT. 2 stars, fair game. 1 star, I think that's too much. And 5 stars, not even within a mile of it. Arenal5, I can only assume you are doing this out of friendship for the author, I see no other tangible explanation. Plase refrain from that. It´s not what the rating system is for.
Dr_Igor
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 13:48
You make a negative judgment about the English wording and syntax w/out giving any examples. And you misspelled "match" twice, used the word "tangible" where it does not belong. And you imply that reviewer ArenaI5 had questionable intentions many years ago. When throwing accusations like that you have to have solid proof. And you know that ArenaI5 is not around to respond. This is a very bad form.
Don Juan
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 13:54
Other native speakers have also corroborated what he said, so he doesn't need to give any example, this is the solid proof you're asking for. We are actually discussing if this translation is allowed to remain - and as stated by me in a comment, I asked the 5 stars to be removed.
Fool Emeritus
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 11:57
English wording and syntax is poor, and it fails to account for some idioms, but the overall sense is conveyed, and it doesn't mach with GT
Dr_Igor
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 13:57
This is seriously messed up, Juan. If you don't trust members to assign stars, then scrapping the whole system of reviews would be the way to go.
And so what that a couple of members disagreed with ArenaI5. They used their right to post reviews. What if tomorrow other five members come who agree with ArenaI5? Will you ask the admins to bring his/her review back or will you ask the admins to remove their reviews?
Don Juan
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 15:04
What are you even talking about? This translation popped up for us because it had been rated with 1 star. I did as we are expected to do, I asked other speakers of Spanish who all agreed the translation is problematic and, as such, does NOT deserve being given 5 stars. So I also did what I'm supposed to do and asked LT to remove it. Not being a fluent/native Spanish speaker I'm unable to give my own opinion, but regarding English I agree with them (I'd give this 3/2 stars at most).
In the 8 years after Arena left their rating no English speaker came to agree with them, which proves everyone else's opinion right.
I don't see any native English speakers here who corroborated what he said. I skimmed over the translation and nothing jumped out at me as bad English.
I'm not one as well, but user/author doesn't seem to understand Spanish correctly.
- the sun doesn't rise nor the time exists > syntatic error, you can't use 'nor' without 'neither' - at least in standard English.
- English doesn't have '¿'
- The original Spanish lines make no mention of someone's gender, so translator should not have used 'her' in 'Who is going to give me her emotions?' and other lines, they should go with 'their'.
And more...
Considering all that, I keep my opinion. Arena's rating doesn't seem to be adequate, other users/speakers agree with me.
Dr_Igor
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 17:17
>> 'nor' without 'neither'
of course you can. It is very common.
>>- English doesn't have '¿'
clearly a typo connected to the Spanish keyboard
>>they should go with 'their'
seriously? to refer to one person as "them"? that would have been a grammatical error. Is this some kind of "political correctness"?
IMHO the author is lamenting losing a lover, not a "team of lovers". The second line kinda implies that it's a male: "nunca LE abandone"
but plural?
My main point - Arena was a respected member of the community, a moderator. Why tarnish his/her legacy by removing his/her review based on a couple of "objectors" whose knowledge of English is questionable. Why not let it stand on its own against those objectors' reviews?
Don Juan
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 16:01
No, I'm talking about grammar. You can't translate 'sus' to 'her' or 'him' if there's no explicit gender being mentioned. Same as Portuguese, you can't translate 'sua' as 'her' or 'him' without checking the whole context. I myself have unpublished a couple of translations because translators had misinterpreted that minor rule and made poor translations because of that. And 'their' is also used to refer to someone whose gender you don't know, want to mention or that is irrelevant to the context, nothing to do with political correct, English allows that.
You have to keep standard rules of languages in translations. The rule of either/neither using is that they are always accompanied with or/nor. If you don't, it's broken English. I learned that in both college and English course a long long while ago.
Arena was a respected member of the community, a moderator. Why tarnish his/her legacy by removing his/her review
And why not have doubts of ratings? Wasn't it you who once said and proposed that Moderators were to have their actions discussed by the public? Just because Arena is/was a Mod it doesn't make of them imune to criticism - and I'm just saying what you said/proposed elsewhere, it's not even my own opinion here.
based on a couple of "objectors" whose knowledge of English is questionable.
Who are you to judge on that? If you take a look, Aquiles, Anto and Fool Emeritus have Spanish as their native language and English as their fluent language, just like Arena, so they're more qualified than anyone else (including myself and you) to point out mistakes and validity of ratings.
Why not let it stand on its own against those objectors' reviews?
Again, they also speak both target and source languages here to either a fluent or native level, so their opinion must be respected.
Geborgenheit
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 16:26
I don’t think I could have explained that better Juan. Thank you.
Aquiles Castro Parejo
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 02:32
The second line kinda implies that it's a male: "nunca LE abandone"but plural?
Aside from that "Le" is gender neutral. "Le" is also not plural; "Les" is its plural.
If it were male as he states, it would be "Lo". Female would be "La".
Geborgenheit
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 18:51
I agree that my one star rating was a bit much. At the time I made an assumption instead of checking because of how bad the translation is. So I decided to give this two stars.
I completely agree with Fool Emeritus. The translation does not match GT but it is still poor.
Also Igor, with all due respect, ratings exist so that the translator receives honest feedback. The English is very bad and Juan has provided a clear explanation as to why.
Dr_Igor
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 16:36
With all due respect, Geborgenheit, (American) English is my language for 30 years, so I am more of a native English speaker than any 30-year old who was born in the States. I disagree with Juan on most points and I also read the translation. Its English is probably not perfect but to call it bad?
Dr_Igor
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 16:31
>>And why not have doubts of ratings
Of course, one can have doubts. But remove? To be totally honest I just hate those who give one-star reviews ( unless it is clearly a GT or totally illiterate - which is not the case here). But I would never call for a removal of their reviews "administratively". I usually try to "shame" them into doing it themselves.
>>so their opinion must be respected.
their opinion is being respected by publishing it. Why it should lead to a removal of a different opinion is beyond me.
>>The rule of either/neither using is that they are always accompanied with or/nor.
Ha? we are talking about "nor" and if it necessarily has to be preceded by "neither". I don't think so.
>>'their' is also used to refer to someone whose gender you don't know,
Not in American English. So for most people whose native language is English it would be incorrect.
Balkantürk
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 17:00
I am allowed to chime 😛?
1. 1 star means GT and this translation was not made by any machine tool
2. Please understand that most of LT users make literal translations and the ones from 2008 or 2010 did it all the time. I saw a lot of translations from that era and all of them were too literal
3. This user hasn't been there since 2008, so there is no necessity of having a "discussion" also, he had 3 ratings of 5 stars and the users who gave to him the "prize" weren't native speakers neither speakers of Spainsh language.
4- Tiritas in UK I think they say sticking plaster or plaster and in America they called them band aid
5- These 2 sentences ¿Quién me va a entregar sus emociones? and ¿quién me va a pedir que nunca le abandone? doesn't revealed gender (it is really common in Spanish), but it was, also, common sense to gess to whom Alejandro was talking about: a woman. And with this argument the user added "her" No so correct? No, but it's not a heavy mistake. Americans do it all the time so it's no strange to me that this user has made this "error"
6- A lot of Americans mostly use singular agreement with the verb, they are likely to use plural pronouns to refer to collective nouns
7- No hay dos sin tres (the sentence) better have written --- There isn't two without three. This kind of proverb was "invented" by David Bisbal, and Cali, and El Dandee, celebrating Spain football victory. They were referring to the The 2008, 2010 champions victories.
8- Va y viene also I think could be said: be fleeting or literaly comes and goes
9 Qué sé yo... I would have written: Who knows... It's like saying to X person don't ask me that because I have 0 idea
10- corazón que no ve corazón que no siente it's an expression: Ojos que no ven corazón que no siente and it's better to say: What the eye cannot see, the heart does not grieve over
11- bajar la luna simply translate as: who is going to give us the moon? Since it's something impossible to do it is referring at the action of doing something which is thought to be impossible for somebody
Fool Emeritus
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 17:12
Fine, if that's how you want to play:
You see, all the things come in threes. -> All things. We are talking about all things in general (everything), not all the things that belong in a given field that is not mentioned. Actually, having said "everything" would make... everything, easier. But he kept the same structure and words as in Spanish- beginner's mistake.
You see, all the things come in threes. -> All things come in trees, if you wanna misquote creatively. "All good/bad things come in threes" if you want to use the most commonly accepted translation of the idiom.
And what I know? -> And what do I know. We are saying "I don't know about this or that", not "the things I know about something" ("What I know")
But lie to me, please, tell me that there is still -> "aunque sea" is not "please". Accurate translation would be "Tell me, even if it´s a lie"
the sun doesn't rise nor the time exists nor pain does. -> nor... nor is bad form, no matter how common it is. Neither/nor, or "nor time or pain exist" since they both share verb.
Take me, if you want, to wander -> "perderse" (to wander, to become lost) is not the same as "perder" (lose)
out of a heart that lies to you, my love -> "corazón que no siente O corazón que te miente". Either/or, conjunción disyuntiva. It separates or marks difference between sentences. It doesn't join them together like it does here.
there is still that pain I suffered because I believed you. -> believed IN you, not "believed you". Not the same.
¿What happened to our hope and happiness of being together? -> Very pretty, but not what the verse said. "What happened to our hope, and the the joy of living/to how wonderful life is"
Who is going to fill of springs this january -> You are full OF something. You fill something WITH somethin. "Who is going to fill this January with springs? Vessel before container. And months, like all proper nouns, are capitalized in English.
has never been "sharing", but "giving charity", my love. -> unnecessary quotation marks
it won't come anything. -> nothing will come. "anything/nothing" is the object and is present in the sentence, no need to put the pronoun. "anyhting" is something that exists and is not present, "nothing" is something that doesn't exist, or if you will, the absence of aynthing. What are the lyrics saying? There you go.
Enough proof for you or the kind of errors I refer to with my "questionable" knowledge of English?
Balkantürk
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 17:43
As far as I remember Igor didn't "attack" you, besides he most of the time is like that but his intentions aren't bad ;) He was complaining about having eliminated Arena's vote. Also, he pointed out he was living in America for 30 years. Also, don't forget Igor is Spanish student and I don't know if he is fluent enough to afirm: "I am". True all the errors you have pointed out, but it was unecessary to speak to Igor like that. Oh and if Igor wants to play let's play ;)
Dr_Igor
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 18:48
I am always game, Dora. ;) As we discussed with Anto the other day I once spent 3 weeks in Buenos Aires and by the end of week 2, I spoke like a porteño according to other porteños. But it was a while ago and languages get rusty without use. So, Fool Emeritus, if you think that your knowledge of English is unquestionable, tell us what your last sentence means: "Enough proof for you or the kind of errors I refer to with my "questionable" knowledge of English?" I know, it's probably a typo like the typos the translator had. There was no need for you to bad-mouth the English of the translation in general. If you feel that some meanings were distorted in the translation then it is a different matter. But I guess, that nowadays most of the discrepancies would have been covered by the "poetic" tag which probably was not common eight years ago.
Balkantürk
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 19:10
No problem dear, I know ;) Exactly, when you didn't use a language, despite of having a huge knowledge of grammar, the language could get rusty without use or you could lose the grammar knowledge. What we pointed out were not so important mistakes which made us to put our hands on our head and made us to pull our hair out. At first I think some users throw the first stone and for me it's better to explain the mistakes and then give proper and personal rating. There's no necessity here to shoot somebody down :) Also, we should understand that in America they are used to add "his, her..." most of the time and I can understand people get shocked when we omit it. In the 2008 most of the translations were literal and it was not common to see poetical translations. Also, I saw a lot of really bad translations in Turkish and Spanish, I didn't find any case in Balkan translations or in Russian, that were rated with five stars and honestly some of them were made by GT... In the case of Spanish I have found a lot of translations, from 2007 or 2008, as if they were written by Yoda :D O realted to porteño; for us natives also is complicated, sometimes, to understand all the Spanish dialects... I got used to Argentine language because the parents of a close friend are from Argentina oh and River Plate fans 😛 .@MissAtomicLau
MissAtomicLau
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 19:41
River Plate fans are called "millonarios" or "gallinas", haha. As you probably know, Argentina is a country obsessed with football and there are lots of expressions related to it. Also, maybe you're familiar with switching syllables in some words, for example: "calor" becomes "lorca". You'll hear porteños use tons of those words. However, in the west we don't switch words that often but we still understand them 😄😄
Balkantürk
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 20:04
"lorca" oh makes me remind of Federico García Lorca 😄 Yes, I know yes I know how they are called I prefer to call them "millonarios" and Boca are called Xeneizes which I didn't understand its meaning 😄😄 so, I have made a research and it was used to call the genoese, but the word was deformated. Originally its called zenéixi. Once I spoke with a porteño man and I was asked him where the suitcase is? And he didn't stop telling me ajoba, ajoba and I was thinking whaaaat?? Since I know the word "pibe" I used it all the time. Also, I laughed a lot when I hear the sentence: me pica el bagre 😄😄😄 Oh and I am truly a river plate fan 🥳
MissAtomicLau
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 20:28
That's quite funny, Dora 😄 "Che, pibe" or "Che, flaco" are the most common ways to adress a young unknown man.
Yes, "me pica el bagre" it's a strange and funny expression, haha.
Balkantürk
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 20:34
No comments about boludo 😄😄
Fool Emeritus
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 19:58
Sure. You ask for proof of something, proof is provided. You zero in on typos as proof of lack of command of a language (lol), dismiss mistranslations and inappropiate use of target language as "poetic" (lol) and then go on to tell me an anechdote about someone praising your pronounciation and ability to mimic tone and sound (which I've also had, undeservedly, that's called "white lies") as though that is supposed to impress me and somehow prove beyond doubt your command of Spanish.
Grammatical facts are up there, next to the reasoning behind the removal of the rating, should you want to see them. I refuse to dignify this idiocy by replying any further.
Dr_Igor
Sat, 29/01/2022 - 20:00
Trust me, to impress you was the last thing on my mind. I discussed my command of Spanish ( not of the accent) which I once had with Dora, who raised the issue, not with you. You initiated the argument by denigrating members who are not even in a position to respond. This is a really bad form in my book. And who is throwing words like "idiocy" around? Not me. Are you implying that I am an idiot?
Geborgenheit
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 03:28
I would just like to add to Balkanturk's, Fool Emeritus's and Aquiles's corrections:
1) The English equivalent for "corazón que no ve es corazón que no siente" is actually "Out of sight, out of mind" ("Out of heart" is incorrect). Therefore the correct way to translate the corresponding sentence would be "I know, out of sight, out of mind". "Ya lo sé" (for those who don't know) is the equivalent of saying "I know" in English when you are a bit annoyed and want the listener to know that you already know something. So in this case, it is a question of nuance. Like for instance "Don't forget, you need to get up early tomorrow. I know mom!"
2) dar limosna - giving alms
3) ¿What happened to our hope and happiness of being together? - The question marks are not used properly. In English it is only the last question mark that is used (as I am sure we all know). Otherwise, Fool Emeritu's correction of that phrase is great so I will not repeat it here.
4) After the storm, it comes the calm - After the storm comes a calm ("It comes" is not correct)
Balkantürk
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 14:30
No problem :) I said that also because I wanted to stopped the unnecesary "discussion" that one user, without any reason, wanted to start
Well better to look like Messi rather than have similarities with Neymar :D Sorry, if you are one of their fans, but I can't stand this guy... Ronaldinho, for example, we all know he had some "problems", but he was and still is a total genius. My favorite football player would be always Pelé and Julio Cesar, but if we talk about Brazilian players that are active I would say: Alisson and Ederson, Thiago Silva and David Luiz :)
I was shocked, but not surprised, when I listened sad stories about the childhood or the adolescence of most of the Brazilian players one that shocked me was Richarlison story.
I am a big Шахтар Донецьк suporter and just in case you don't know Шахтар have and still has a lot of Brazilian players. The most famous players were Alex Teixeira, Willian, Douglas Costa, Elano, Bernard and Fernandinho. The most popular who still plays for the team is Marlos oh also Taison is popular but not as Marlos :)
Don Juan
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 20:31
I am not, I actually dislike soccer, I find it quite boring :P I have my own strong opinions against Pelé... He is good only in the field, let's put it like that, but let's keep it out of the translation... But you said something correct, most Brazilian soccer players rise from poverty. It's an opportunity for many of them to have a decent life in such an unequal country.
Balkantürk
Sun, 30/01/2022 - 20:42
No problem :) I can understand that no all Brazilians love soccer. The opinion you have about Pelé is the same I have about Maradona. Sorry to say it, but he was good only in the field. Related to the translation, if I have time I think I will write my own translation. Both English ones were to old and with a lot of sentences too literal.
The best translation to English that I've seen in quite a while.
Out of three errors, two are typos and one is right in context: an asterisk (what happened to the footnote, was this imported from AllTheLyrics), an inverted interrogation mark, and "warm" as translation for "tapar" ("tuck in")