Samet Fidan on 2023-08-26
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Yelda Şahin
Tue, 10/10/2023 - 21:30
I think you hear m because of the bilabial effect of the b of bir which comes right after gitsen.
Try this: listen/watch with x0,25 speed. Luckily her face is seen when she sings that part.
She doesn't close her lips before "bir" so the sound before it can't be m.
Additionally, gitsem doesn't make less sense, it makes no sense and Zerrin Özer is a very experienced singer and I'd expect all kinds of nonsense from most of the next generation singers but not from her.
Yelda Şahin
Wed, 11/10/2023 - 09:24
Follow the evidence, not people :)
You are right two sounds are similar and with gitsen n is not as clear as the previous lines.
Yelda Şahin
Thu, 12/10/2023 - 14:15
Choice a (the comment to result choice a) is not grammatical and choice b is not compatible with the context (the whole thing is about how the speaker doesn't love them any more) unless it is a quote, as she says "[it is a] lie, lie" right after it.
Daha önce söylediklerimle çelişmek pahasına, doğrusu:
Yanar yanar yürek uğruna aşkın
Yalan yalan çoktan sınırı aştın
olmalıydı diye düşünüyorum ama açık bir şekilde aşkım diyor. (Ayrıca muhtemelen "aştım" da diyor).
yanar yürek aşkım uğruna (without genitive) is grammatical but one can't scramble "aşkım uğruna" (or e.g. aşkım için, not *için aşkım).
e.g. Ölürüm vatan uğruna (without genitive) but not *Ölürüm uğruna vatan (in the same meaning), vatan is understood as vocative automatically.
Scrambling doesn't work for unmarked elements in (contemporary) Turkish, contrary to what some people assume, it is not free order.
Still, it is possible that the lyrics writer thought it is acceptable under poetic license.
Sorry if this is not very helpful.
BTW the video features a belly dancer. Look up the verb kıvırmak in TDK Sözlük (4th, 5th and 9th meaning). To twist like a belly dancer means to chop and change. So the person mentioned chops and changes.
Razq
Thu, 12/10/2023 - 19:28
Indeed very helpful. Thank you very much!
Choice a (the comment to result choice a) is not grammatical
What do you mean by this? Do you mean what I have written is not grammatical? I reviewed my Turkish grammar books now and I remembered that for postpositions such as "uğruna", a genitive marker is not commonly used on the complement, but both having and lacking a genitive marker is grammatical for nouns, as opposed to pronouns.
So
a1) yürek aşkımın uğruna yanar
a2) yürek aşkım uğruna yanar
are both grammatical, although a2 is much more common. I just want to make sure that I have made myself clear. I'm not contradicting you.
But now I have a question about whether what I had written as the option b was indeed grammatical or not.
b1) yürek uğruna yanar, aşkım
b2) yürek senin uğruna yanar, aşkım
I have a feeling that in Turkish using the word uğruna by itself is not grammatical and it should be preceded by the pronoun senin, otherwise yürek would be considered as the complement of the postposition, as opposed to the subject of the sentence. Am I right?
Yanar yanar yürek uğruna aşkın
Yalan yalan çoktan sınırı aştın
Indeed, these seem to be the most sensible lyrics. I too think that the first one is a quote. These are part of a conversation, not a monologue. The man says "Yanar yanar yürek uğruna aşkın" and the woman replies "Yalan yalan çoktan sınırı aştın".
And thanks for mentioning the words kıvırmak, uydurmak, and dolandırmak. Now I get that using a belly dancer is not just a cheap method to attract more viewers, but it actually relates to the content of the song and the word "numara"!
Yelda Şahin
Fri, 13/10/2023 - 10:41
No, both of your paraphrases are grammatical, that is why I added a note in parenthesis, to clarify that what is ungrammatical is not your paraphrased but the original clause if former choice is what the writer meant. It is true that without "senin", uğruna is ambiguous but it doesn't make it ungrammatical and with poetry or lyrics you can't be concerned with ambiguity too much as it is not a priority.
What I said is, if the lyrics writer meant former option than it is ungrammatical while latter option is out of context. So neither option is good. But first option is possible if the writer thought it is allowed with poetic license and the second is possible if it is a quote (I am not arguing that it is a quote but I think it is possible).
I mentioned kıvırmak (both twist and chop and change) because it may explain some inconsistences.
I still think it is a cheesy promotion trick btw, as they could use a man dancer and it would be more compatible with the context but for "some reason" they didn't choose that option.
Note: preposition > postposition (There are no prepositions in Turkish)
Please correct:
Gitsem bir daha geri dönmezdin ya > Gitsen